SAE bell housing??

piper106

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Location
Grosse Ile MI
TDI
2001 New Beetle Blue
I have read that VW 4 cylinder industrial engines have been supplied with special bell housings that is drilled on the "transmission end' with the SAE 4 or SAE 5 bolt pattern. Does anyone have a picture/drawing or a link to a picture/drawing of such an item?? Part number??

If I could get a part like this, it might make a special project I am working on a whole lot easier.

If you happen to have one of these bell housings for sale, PM me here at TDIclub.com

Piper106
 

piper106

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Location
Grosse Ile MI
TDI
2001 New Beetle Blue
This is freaky.
Below is a picture of an industrial bell housing that just came up on ebay_uk.





This is what I am looking for.
Any ideas on whether this is a VW part, or a third party supplier??
Anyone have a part number???
I am looking to buy. If you have this item, PM me here at TDIclub.com

Piper106
 
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piper106

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Location
Grosse Ile MI
TDI
2001 New Beetle Blue
Found out that the SAE bell housing (actually it is an SAE #6 bell) is made by Marshalls Industrial Ltd. located at Wallingford in the United Kingdom. www.mi-uk.com

Now I am trying to run down a distributor in either the USA or the UK that will sell one piece at a time to some one building a 'special' in their garage.

Piper106
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Pathfinder converted vw 1.6 idi engines to marine use. They used an adapter similar to that. I've still got one, but it is in use. I think it is SAE #5. Starter sits next to block.

You may be able to find one by searching for pathfinder marine engines.
 

piper106

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Location
Grosse Ile MI
TDI
2001 New Beetle Blue
As far as the internet, Pathfinder marine engines looks to be out of business.

Looks like my best hope is running down a distributor for Marshalls Industrial on this side of the Atlantic.

Piper106
 

TurbinePower

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Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
piper106 said:
As far as the internet, Pathfinder marine engines looks to be out of business.

Looks like my best hope is running down a distributor for Marshalls Industrial on this side of the Atlantic.

Piper106
You might be able to find a Pathfinder that's out of service and up for sale for parts, if you can't find Marshall's here.
 

mech644

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Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Blue Hill, Maine
TDI
'00 Golf, '14 Touareg
VW is also marineizing almost the entire line of TDI's for marine use. U may be able find a link on their website. A distrubutoer from Mass brought a bunch of marine TDI set up running on a trailer to demo them. Their name was Westwind or westward something. do a google and u can track them down
 

greg123

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May 24, 2005
Location
UK
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Passat, now Pug 405 TD, later Passat again!
What can you do with it, will it fit any gearboxes for automotive use - particularly rwd?

Greg.
 

piper106

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Location
Grosse Ile MI
TDI
2001 New Beetle Blue
The SAE bell housing does not specifically fit any RWD trans, but it would / should make adapting to a rear wheel drive or 4WD transmission fairly easy.

The nice thing about the SAE bell is that the rear / transmission side flange is circular. An SAE bell and a aluminum donut, OD sized to fit the SAE bell and the ID the right size to fit the pilot diameter on one of the 'classic' American manual transmissions (Borg Warner T-5, Borg Warner T-10, or GM Muncie) and you should be good to go.

I am working on trying to fit an Aisin Warner 4 speed automatic overdrive trans (Jeep calls it an AW4 trans, Toyota calls this same trans an A340) to an ALH TDI engine for a rear drive application. I have a VW four cylinder / SAE size 5 bell (like the picture in my earlier post) that I got from 'Parts Place' here in Michigan, and I was eyeballing / sizing things up last week.

Good new. SAE bell goes right on the engine and a circular donut plate would connect the the AW4 auto trans to the SAE bell. Lathe work 101, no big deal. Bad news. The Jeep AW4 torque convertor is about 1/4" (6 mm) too big in diameter to fit inside the SAE bell housing. 'Insert unprintable cuss word / phase here'. I tried to find an 11" (280 mm) or slightly smaller OD torque converter (that would fit inside the SAE bell housing) for this trans, but no luck so far.

I will update my post if I make any further progress.

Piper106
 

DIESEL DAZZLER

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May 20, 2001
Location
Dorchester
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81VW TDI PU,94 GOLF TDI,97 PASSAT TDI,03 ,06 JETTA TDI's,KABOTA DIESEL LAWNMOWER
flywheel housing

In the past I have adapted a VW Diesel to a GM flywheel housing using a 1/2 inch steel plate.Not too difficult,fit plate to rear of block leaving excess material and butt trans to plate,you might have to rotate either to avoid fastener conflicts.You can mount starter on plate.I made a template of engine and trans from bristol board to figure out the layout.You can adapt TC to Older vw drive plate.
 

deaner

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
clyde,ohio
TDI
97 TDI in hm md 4x4
I don't think the starter will work from the engine side with the original TDI flywheel. The SAE #5 ? bellhousing looks big and heavy, is it? I just built a steel bellhousing to mate up rwd/4x4 trans to TDI with original starter/flywheel. That might be easier way to go. Though steel bell isn't exactly light either.
 

greg123

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Joined
May 24, 2005
Location
UK
TDI
Passat, now Pug 405 TD, later Passat again!
Which GM was it, 4L60E? And how did you ensure it was perfectly centralised? As I understand it, 1mm out is enouh to trash the box bearings over time.

Greg.

DIESEL DAZZLER said:
In the past I have adapted a VW Diesel to a GM flywheel housing using a 1/2 inch steel plate.Not too difficult,fit plate to rear of block leaving excess material and butt trans to plate,you might have to rotate either to avoid fastener conflicts.You can mount starter on plate.I made a template of engine and trans from bristol board to figure out the layout.You can adapt TC to Older vw drive plate.
 

greg123

Veteran Member
Joined
May 24, 2005
Location
UK
TDI
Passat, now Pug 405 TD, later Passat again!
How did you get over the centralising problem?

I was thinking that maybe one could have made on a lathe something like a tube which widened out at the flywheel end with a flange & flywheel bolts. Bolt it to the crank, have it made from the cnc drawings and the tube part bored out so it's a tight push fit on the input shaft of the gearbox. So you could stand the engine on it's end, flywheels side up, and the gearbox would sit virticle with the input shaft held solid. Work out the distances & cut the gearbox front half of the bellhousing off, cut the front half of a tdi bellhousing off an old gearbox and keep cutting them down till they sit with a 1mm gap apart. Then weld them up.

Tha way the side to the engine would be stock tdi & presuming that the gearbox bearings had no slack you'd know it was lined up right as it was sat mocked up held by the input shaft in perfect alignment.

Other than the leg work of having something to fit to the input shaft and bolt to the crank (which could be used again) made (under £100) and the time taken to figure out how far back the gearbox needs to sit from the engine to ensure correct input shaft position, it would simply be sawing, bit of grinding (or milling) & one big weld.

Any takers?

Greg.

deaner said:
I don't think the starter will work from the engine side with the original TDI flywheel. The SAE #5 ? bellhousing looks big and heavy, is it? I just built a steel bellhousing to mate up rwd/4x4 trans to TDI with original starter/flywheel. That might be easier way to go. Though steel bell isn't exactly light either.
 

deaner

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2009
Location
clyde,ohio
TDI
97 TDI in hm md 4x4
To build the bellhousing for the TDI I took two steel plates,drilled both to bolt up to the engine. On one I cut a circle slightly larger than the flywheel, the other I cut a hole just big enough for the trans. to fit into (5-spd geo tracker with alignment bushings on two bolts) I then threaded 7 inch pieces of ready rod(all-thread) into the 5 holes in the block. Next I slid the first plate onto the ready-rod over the flywheel, against the block. Then I cut a 12 inch pipe about 4.5 inches long and put it over the flywheel,sticking out from the engine. Then I slid the second plate onto the ready-rods and nutted them to sandwich the pipe between the two pipes all bolted up to the block. I then proceeded to weld the plates to the pipe/ring.
Many measurements were taken,many mistakes made, more than one plate discarded. After the thing had cooled I discovered, not to my surprise, that it had warped. I took it to a machine shop to have it surfaced to make both sides of the "bellhousing" parallel. It didn't take much. I brought it home and took the flywheel off the engine. I made a piece to bolt to the crank that stuck out about 8 inches, then bolted the bellhousing back up to the engine with the bracket piece sticking out the hole where the trans. goes. On the end of the bracket piece I attached an arm. On the arm I attached an adjustable pointer and adjusted it tight to the outside plate of the bellhousing. (this bracket piece,arm,pointer-scribe was all very crude and made very quickly out of scrap)
Then I just turned the crank to scribe a circle. I got some help to mark the bolt holes from this circle taking extra care on the two alignment holes.
I left a lot out like the starter,drilling trans. holes etc., but this is long enough.
What I've ended up with is a bellhousing that connects a 1.9 TDI to a geo 5-spd. using original TDI flywheel,pressure plate,and starter.
 

Homo.Sapien

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Location
USA
TDI
2009
That seems like a clever way to do a bell housing! How did you manage the amount of space you need for the clutch? Did you end up with the same overall height as the stock bell housing? Seems obvious that is what you need.:eek:
 
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