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sachs clutch kit

cb1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Location
texas
TDI
2005 passat wagon
i need to replace my clutch,planning to replace it with a sachs/vr6 kit from idparts....i have been told they are noisy at idle...does anybody knows if this true and how bad is it..??im planning to upgrade injectors and maybe turbo at a later date....but right now i need a clutch...
 

Jnitrofish

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2009
Location
Texas
TDI
2005.5, 2005.5, and 2006. 5m, 5m, and DSG.
Most of the solid flywheel/dampened clutch kits besides the Valeo kit make noticeable noise, but nothing terrible if you stick with a heavier 21 pound flywheel.

The Sachs G60/VR6 clutches are very hit and miss on how much torque they can hold. Mine slipped on my PD after a camshaft and a tune. I would spend the money up front, and get an SBC Stage II clutch if you are going to do upgrades in the future.
 

cb1

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Location
texas
TDI
2005 passat wagon
Most of the solid flywheel/dampened clutch kits besides the Valeo kit make noticeable noise, but nothing terrible if you stick with a heavier 21 pound flywheel.

The Sachs G60/VR6 clutches are very hit and miss on how much torque they can hold. Mine slipped on my PD after a camshaft and a tune. I would spend the money up front, and get an SBC Stage II clutch if you are going to do upgrades in the future.
ok..thanks for the info..will check into the valeo and sbc
 

Nash_TDI

Veteran Member -TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Location
Louisville, ky
TDI
2000 Silver Jetta TDI
I have had great luck with my sachs VR clutch. I didn't notice the noise at all. It only started to slip right before tdifest with RC5.
 

mk1-83

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Location
Holland
TDI
LUPO 1.9 tdi 300+ hp
no valeo crap for tunend tdi's.
the vr6/combo are good for 450-480nm. /2400 rpm
also keep the torq a bit higher in the rpmband good for clutch and drivetrain/box.
and don't forget to have the flywheel cleand and maybe resurface before install.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
If you use the stock Mk3/B4 TDI clutch disk with the VR6 pressure plate, you will have next to no rattle, a failure-free single mass flywheel and the clamping force of the VR6 pressure plate.

I'm not sure if any of the vendors currently have such a kit, though I have been in contact with one recently. This may be in the works as a regular kit in the near future.

This is the part number for the TDI-specific SMF clutch disk: 028 141 035 C.

I've had a VR6 clutch kit in my Mk3 since 2006. It was abysmally loud and rattly (the Mk4s aren't as rattly with this kit, especially if you get the heavier flywheel option--21 lb). The Mk3 came with a 21 lb SMF from the factory. All I did was machine the original one and install the VR6 clutch kit.

A couple weeks ago, I took the trans back out to address a leaking rear main seal and got the above clutch disk. I scuffed up and cleaned the flywheel and pressure plate and reinstalled the same flywheel, pressure plate and throwout bearing that's been there since 2006, just with the different clutch disk. The rattle is all but gone! From very noisy to nearly silent.

The holding power shouldn't be any different with the disk. The friction material is the same, just the hub and springs in the center of the disk are changed.
 

Yblocker

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
1997 Passat
Matt-

I am in the middle of this too at the moment. I am planning to use the Sachs 037141033B disc which (I thought) was also a TDI specific disc that uses two different wire diameter springs in the hub. The worn out Luk SMF disc that I removed has two different springs in it too.

These are the sites that have photos of the disc:

http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/...s_037141033B_Clutch_Disc_OEM&products_id=1339

and

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...997&cid=15@Clutch Parts&gid=10605@Clutch Disc

What about the 028141035C ? I do see that these guys sell it:
http://www.hansautoparts-charlotte.com/028141035CClutch.htm

How did you arrive at your part number?
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I also use the MKIII TDI kit on the G60 FW like Matt mentioned. Zero noise and holds just as well as far as I can tell.

The Sachs number is K7003801. That is for PP, disc and release bearing.

I have no idea why the VR6 kit is so popular
 
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Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Matt-
I am in the middle of this too at the moment. I am planning to use the Sachs 037141033B disc which (I thought) was also a TDI specific disc that uses two different wire diameter springs in the hub. The worn out Luk SMF disc that I removed has two different springs in it too.
These are the sites that have photos of the disc:
http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/...s_037141033B_Clutch_Disc_OEM&products_id=1339
and
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pr...997&cid=15@Clutch Parts&gid=10605@Clutch Disc
What about the 028141035C ? I do see that these guys sell it:
http://www.hansautoparts-charlotte.com/028141035CClutch.htm
How did you arrive at your part number?
The part number I quoted is the VW part number.

There is a different part number between VR6 pressure plate and TDI pressure plates as well. I would think the VR6 pressure plate has more clamping force? I kind of wish we could get some tangible numbers on the stock Mk3 pressure plate vs. VR6 pressure plate as far as clamping force.

For the record, the "G60" flywheel is the same for all 4 cylinders that came coupled to an 02A transmission. The G60 was merely the first to use it. 2.0L 16V in the B3 Passat, 2.0L 8V in the B3/B4 Passat and the B4/Mk3 TDI (1Z/AHU) all used the same 21 lb SMF flywheel from the factory. I figured for this crowd it would be easier to refer to it as the "stock B4/Mk3 TDI flywheel." But maybe that's just me...

BTW, Hansautoparts = Rothenbacher = Prothe. STAY AWAY. Chinese rip-off garbage.

The part number I used comes up on Worldimpex: http://www.worldimpex.com/parts/sachs-clutch-disc_2739698.html

They also list the OEM part for a fair bit more money (which is typically the same exact Sach's disk with a VW/Audi emblem embossed on it. Or like mine, it's actually an LuK remanufactured unit... with Sach's friction material. LOL).
 
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Midwesthick

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Location
Denver
TDI
A6, Q5, Golf
so I am confused. I only plan on doing nozzles, intercooler and those are my main big mods. Does the VR6 clutch kit for the 98 jetta tdi not hold up to those power mods?
 

Scott_DeWitt

Vendor
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Location
Texas USA
TDI
2000 Audi A4 1.9TDI quattro
2.0L 16V in the B3 Passat, 2.0L 8V in the B3/B4 Passat and the B4/Mk3 TDI (1Z/AHU) all used the same 21 lb SMF flywheel from the factory. .
I've yet to see an OEM factory 21lb flywheel, of the dozen I've pulled of vehicles all were 18-19lbs. However many of the new flywheels made today are 21-22 lbs.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I weighed one recently that I took off a Mk3, 21 lbs exactly. WITH the ring gear.
 

Yblocker

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
1997 Passat
I did a little more homework on the disc part numbers.

Volkswagen part number 028-141-035-C cross references to Sachs 1878-043-141. The Sachs number is printed on the hub on the disc that came in just today. This disc can be purchased from AZ Autohaus or MJM Autohaus under part number 037141033B This is the specific TDI disc and Sachs uses a dual (spring-within-a-spring) set up, and is designed for the diesel application. As I said above, the stock LuK disc I took out of my TDI has two different spring wire diameters, but are single springs. It was quiet at idle.

The Impex part number that Matt references is the Volkswagen part number, and as Runonbeer says the whole TDI clutch kit (that includes the correct disc) is available. I am going with a stronger cover that Bora Parts is supplying.

My G60 flywheel is factory and weighs 21 pounds for what it's worth.

Cb-1: I think the VR-6 clutch will be strong enough for your plans. It may be a bit noisy though. By the way the South Bend clutch kits all use the VR-6 disc too, so that's why they tend to clatter.
 
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Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I did a little more homework on the disc part numbers.

Volkswagen part number 028-141-035-C cross references to Sachs 1878-043-141. The Sachs number is printed on the hub on the disc that came in just today. This disc can be purchased from AZ Autohaus or MJM Autohaus under part number 037141033B This is the specific TDI disc and Sachs uses a dual (spring-within-a-spring) set up, and is designed for the diesel application. As I said above, the stock LuK disc I took out of my TDI has two different spring wire diameters, but are single springs. It was quiet at idle.

The Impex part number that Matt references is the Volkswagen part number, and as Runonbeer says the whole TDI clutch kit (that includes the correct disc) is available. I am going with a stronger cover that Bora Parts is supplying.

My G60 flywheel is factory and weighs 21 pounds for what it's worth.

Cb-1: I think the VR-6 clutch will be strong enough for your plans. It may be a bit noisy though. By the way the South Bend clutch kits all use the VR-6 disc too, so that's why they tend to clatter.
Interesting find on the part numbers. The 037141033B is superceded by 037141032L according to my copy of ETKA. And that part number comes up as the clutch disk for the ABF code 2.0L 150 hp gas engine in Europe. The TDI disk has a different number yet. I'd like to see some photos of your disk and see what it looks like and definitely get your impressions once you've installed it.

The VR6 disk I pulled out of my car has the dual spring setup. The TDI disk does not. Granted, my TDI disk was not straight from Sachs. Mine is a reman'd VW unit that started life as an LuK and now has fresh Sachs friction material on it... I have another original LuK TDI disk I took out of my B4 TDI recently to rebuild the engine, I should get a couple photos to compare an original TDI disk to a VR6 disk.
 

wncre8r

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Location
M
TDI
2
ID parts clutch kit

I just had my dual mass flywheel and clutch replaced with the kit from ID parts. My mechanic said it was the best equipt kit he has seen! It works great, quiet no noise at all. Now my dual mass rattled even at idle so it was a little scary. Wouldn't have a problem recommending the folks at ID Parts they have never told me anything that didn't hold true.
 

Yblocker

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
1997 Passat
Matt-
Here is a pic of the Sachs 1878-043-141 disc. It's a little distorted due to the angle-sorry:



Of course now you have me second guessing here a little. Look at this Sachs and ZF calalog. http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/z...tems-for-passenger-cars/16154-68259-_894.html

If you feel like it, look for the numbers and note the patterns:
(I think all the part numbers starting with zero are VW numbers)

037-141-033B crosses to the 1878-043-141
028-141-035-C you reference also crosses to 1878-043-141
As does your superceed # 037-141-032L
My old LuK disc 028-141-035-B ? you guessed it. It crosses to 1878-043-141.

What does it all mean? I dunno. This is just one catalog and I don't have the ETKA like you do. Maybe Sachs saves a little money by making fewer discs that can be used in a variety of applications. It does seem that LuK and Sachs use different hub spring designs. My old LuK is like yours-four single springs with two different wire diameters.

I do think the VR-6 design is not the best choice for the TDI even though the disc will fit. It is a completely different series of part numbers too (021-141-031 to Sachs 1862-393-031

I know- too many numbers. I am just trying to clarify this for myself too because I want to skip the whole gear rattle at idle business.
 
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Yblocker

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
1997 Passat
The two materials do appear different, and likely have different coefficients of friction. Not sure which is stickier though!
 

K.I.T.T.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Europe
TDI
PD75
Anyone wanna take a guess on what torque the TDI disc would withstand in conjunction with the VR6 pressure plate?

I've been thinking about using the SRE pressure plate with either the VR6 / TDI disc, although, that's probably overkill for my aims.

Ash
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
The friction material seemed similar enough to me. I would think the pressure plate has more to do with the clamping force/torque holding ability than the disk. But that is conjecture on my part. Obviously there are other disks out there that certainly allow much higher torque-holding, but I think when it comes to these Sach's disks, the disk itself shouldn't change the holding ability much, if at all.

That's why I'm going to prod Aaron to see if he can put together a kit with the VR6 pressure plate and the TDI-specific disk.

Interesting photo on the disk, yblocker. All 4 sets of springs are NOT the same. That is definitely a different disk than the VR6 disk... When I get back home I'll have to take some photos of the two used disks I've got (Sach's VR6 vs. LuK TDI SMF disks).

Nice work on the part # cross-referencing too!

Now to figure out if the VR6 pressure plate truly does add more clamping force or if a stock Mk3/B4 TDI clutch setup works just as good... without the rattle!
 
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Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
I GOT IT!!!!!

So, after doing a little more digging using the link Yblocker provided and a little work in ETKA... you will all like this.

The AAA VR6 pressure plate in ETKA is part #021 141 025 F.

That cross-references to Sach's part #3082 231 031.

The TDI pressure plate in ETKA is part #074 141 025 B

You'll never guess what that cross-references to.

3082 231 031

YUP. Same damn pressure plate!!!!

SO, the answer is (runonbeer was unwittingly correct!) use the Mk3/B4 TDI clutch kit! The pressure plate is the same and the disk is rattle-free.

So, everyone remember the part number runonbeer referenced: K7003801

The hell with the VR6 kit!

Well, this has been enlightening.
 

Nickmix

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Location
Virginia
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI
I GOT IT!!!!!

So, after doing a little more digging using the link Yblocker provided and a little work in ETKA... you will all like this.

The AAA VR6 pressure plate in ETKA is part #021 141 025 F.

That cross-references to Sach's part #3082 231 031.

The TDI pressure plate in ETKA is part #074 141 025 B

You'll never guess what that cross-references to.

3082 231 031

YUP. Same damn pressure plate!!!!

SO, the answer is (runonbeer was unwittingly correct!) use the Mk3/B4 TDI clutch kit! The pressure plate is the same and the disk is rattle-free.

So, everyone remember the part number runonbeer referenced: K7003801

The hell with the VR6 kit!

Well, this has been enlightening.

What would the hp, torque rating for this clutch kit be?
 

K.I.T.T.

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Europe
TDI
PD75
Any idea how much torque your setup puts out Matt?

Sachs p/n 883082-999645= SRE VR6 pressure plate. I'd love to see how it'd work in conjunction with the TDI disc.

And is 1878-043-141 definitely the Sachs TDI disc being discussed here (See Post 15)?

Ash
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Vallejo, CA
TDI
2014 Passat SE DSG, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
What would the hp, torque rating for this clutch kit be?
If I'm correct that the friction of the two disks is the same, the holding force of these two clutch kits should be identical as apparently the pressure plates are also identical. Most seem to estimate the VR6 kit's holding ability to be about 300 ft-lbs.

My setup is probably not too far over 200 ft-lbs. Eventually I will get a VNT conversion and put more boost through it. The chip tune that's on there now isn't too aggressive. 2.2 bar MAP is max requested.

K.I.T.T.: What's the SRE VR6 setup you're talking about? My poking around in ETKA reveals that the Mk4 AFP VR6 clutch is the same as the earlier AAA code engine.
 

Yblocker

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
1997 Passat
Thanks Matt for checking this out. What you have come up with essentially confirms my thoughts and the thoughts of Member Chris Bell who has had this figured out too. I think the easiest way to do this is to use the K7003801 kit, or the Sachs Power Clutch rated at 325 lb/ft, but for me it was more complicated.

I think we are thinking the same way. I was originally going to use a South Bend kit like most guys recommend, but they report rattle too, and when I called SB, the man told me all their TDI kits uses the Sachs VR6 disc as a foundation and that they line them with various friction materials depending on Stage I II III etc. So then I started looking around for the TDI Sachs 1878-043-141 disc and sourced one from MJM Autohaus.

So then I did in fact call Aaron looking for a VR6 pressure plate thinking the increased clamping force would be the ticket, but he suggested I call his guy Scott of DC Clutch here in California. Scott told me he uses the VR6 pressure plate as a base, then has the diaphragm heat treated in varying degrees for Stage I II III. I opted for Stage I which he tests at about 350 lb/ft, which is at least 100 lb/ft more that my car makes at the moment. He said to expect increased pedal effort, so I ordered a boxed release lever, even though he said the increase would not be huge. You need to use the Sachs release bearing.

As an aside, I always wondered about the reports that the VR6 PP setup feels "lighter than stock". Scott's comment was you don't get increased clamping force for free, and unless the fulcrum point is changed, a stronger PP will feel a little heavier. Maybe the comments come from people changing from DMF to SMF setup- I don't know. I don't have a problem with some increased pedal effort.

I have all the parts together, but am still waiting for the pressure plate which should get here this week.
 
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