Running on oil without conversion

[nornornola]

Hi! New owner of a 2003 TDI and new to diesel in general. I am interested in being able to run my TDI on veggie oil, primarily just for long trips or emergency evacuations (I live in Louisiana - I don’t want to wait in line at a gas station for unleaded for 6 hours, just to find out it’s all gone EVER again).
My understanding is that because of my warm climate, for most of the year I would be able to put oil right in m tank without “converting” anything, as the conversion is mainly just to heat the oil to temp.
I have heard it is safe to mix about 50/50 oil/diesel.
I have also heard it is safe to put straight oil in the tank here and there, but not good long term practice as it will build up carbon in the engine.
Assuming I DO want to go ahead and start stockpiling some oil - what is a recommended way of filtering it at home?

 

[oilhammer]

Don't do this.

 

[nornornola]

Clarify please?

 

[oilhammer]

 

[nornornola]

Don't do this.

Not helpful

 

[nornornola]

Even less helpful. If you don’t intend to relay information to me why even bother replying

 

[Johhny04]

Welcome to the club. I see you recently joined. Google and search functions are your friend here. The long and short of it is that it will damage your engine. As oilhammer showed it, its not worth it. Read up on biodiesel and the way of preparing it. The ALH engine is probably the most forgiving when running BIO.

 

[2004LB7]

leaving the glycerin in the oil will promote polymerization of the fuel, combustion gases, etc. combustion gas that makes it past the rings into the crank case and mixes with the oil can cause the oil to thicken and destroy your engine.

it may not be an issue running one tank but how how would you know without doing oil testing, or changing the oil right afterwards

proper processing into biodiesel removes the glycerin so as to avoid this issue

 

[nornornola]

Thank you, I see! So there is not a way to DIY process it to remove the glycerin? How is it that people run their vehicles on veggie oil for years?

 

[atc98002]

So there is not a way to DIY process it to remove the glycerin?

Yes, you process it into Biodiesel. People that run straight VO are either using much older engines, most likely a Mercedes or truck indirect injection type, or they simply accept that their engine will eventually gum up so badly they will just junk it.

 

[nornornola]

Got it, thanks

 

[DivineChaos]

Is the easiest thing to do. Is have 30 gallons of diesel fuel in jugs. And you could cycle through it to keep it new. With one tank you can easily get 600 mi. Two tanks 1200. If that will easily get you out of the danger zone. And gas stations run out of gasoline when there's issues. They don't normally run out of diesel fuel.

 

[DivineChaos]

Diesel fuel in a 55 gallon drum if you treat it will last a long time in storage. You wouldn't even have to fill it. Have enough to fill your tank from empty, and have cans on reserve

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Diesel fuel in a 55 gallon drum if you treat it will last a long time in storage. You wouldn't even have to fill it. Have enough to fill your tank from empty, and have cans on reserve

I did this when diesel was raising close to 3$ a gal, asked the best way to store it on here and people said it was a bad/dumb way to go just to save 20 cents a gallon. Diesel hit ~5$ a gal and I was still running diesel that cost me ~3$ for months. I win for fuel savings.
I will say it works well in 55gallon drums tho it can be a bit of a mess.make sure the drums are nice and clean. Get yourself a cheap oil/diesel pump off amazon (25$) and a 10 micron filter (~25$) and your set. Even taking into consideration the start up cost I still saved a good amount of money.

 

[nornornola]

Is the easiest thing to do. Is have 30 gallons of diesel fuel in jugs. And you could cycle through it to keep it new. With one tank you can easily get 600 mi. Two tanks 1200. If that will easily get you out of the danger zone. And gas stations run out of gasoline when there's issues. They don't normally run out of diesel fuel.

Yes even if I can’t/don’t use veg oil I think my odds are still better with a diesel vehicle, for this exact reason. Not every station has diesel but the range of the car is enough I should always be able to make it to one. And the fumes are not as bad as unleaded, correct? So I could conceivably leave town with a decent amount in my vehicle?

 

[nornornola]

I did this when diesel was raising close to 3$ a gal, asked the best way to store it on here and people said it was a bad/dumb way to go just to save 20 cents a gallon. Diesel hit ~5$ a gal and I was still running diesel that cost me ~3$ for months. I win for fuel savings.
I will say it works well in 55gallon drums tho it can be a bit of a mess.make sure the drums are nice and clean. Get yourself a cheap oil/diesel pump off amazon (25$) and a 10 micron filter (~25$) and your set. Even taking into consideration the start up cost I still saved a good amount of money.

Yeah that was a good move!!

 

[ZippyNH]

At 600+miles a tank, more when going slow.. ...not so sure you will need to worry about waiting in lines to fill up...I hate to let my tank sit at less than 1/2 (condensation and possible emergency perhaps) and that should, especially at typical evacuation speeds...say 40 mph, be 400+ miles....have 5 gallon jug you keep at home to fill up before you leave, and you will almost have full tank range if you are starting at a half at typical slow speeds....
Unlike regular gasoline, diesel has a VERY long life in storage...start with dry, clean fuel, keep cool and in a dark place, and you could keep it for several years.
Simply put, no need to use a 5 gallon jug of veggie oil when the correct fuel will last indefinitely and the car already has a range longer than a gas car with a full tank on about half a tank.....

 

[nornornola]

At 600+miles a tank, more when going slow.. ...not so sure you will need to worry about waiting in lines to fill up...I hate to let my tank sit at less than 1/2 (condensation and possible emergency perhaps) and that should, especially at typical evacuation speeds...say 40 mph, be 400+ miles....have 5 gallon jug you keep at home to fill up before you leave, and you will almost have full tank range if you are starting at a half at typical slow speeds....
Unlike regular gasoline, diesel has a VERY long life in storage...start with dry, clean fuel, keep cool and in a dark place, and you could keep it for several years.
Simply put, no need to use a 5 gallon jug of veggie oil when the correct fuel will last indefinitely and the car already has a range longer than a gas car with a full tank on about half a tank.....

I get nowhere near 600miles a tank, but that’s another issue, and one I hope to solve when I bring the car to my shop appointment in a few weeks.
I agree though it may be more sensible to just stock pile diesel. Am I correct in that it’s reasonably safe to travel with containers of it inside my car?

 

[Lightflyer1]

I would never have fuel in the car. Diesel stinks and doesn't go away easily like gas. Not something you want to be breathing too much of either. I bought diesel back when it was $1.29 a gallon. All gone now.

 

[GlowBugTDI]

I get nowhere near 600miles a tank, but that’s another issue, and one I hope to solve when I bring the car to my shop appointment in a few weeks.
I agree though it may be more sensible to just stock pile diesel. Am I correct in that it’s reasonably safe to travel with containers of it inside my car?

It won't explode, and has no reason to catch fire. Just don't smoke in there with it. Diesel takes a lot of heat or compression to catch fire. Even gas is safe to travel with. gas doesn't explode like in the movies,. It has to be atomized in the air nicely.

 

[ZippyNH]

Diesel is similar to jet fuel in that it takes a lot of HEAT to ignite, so unlike gasoline, an explosive reaction is unlikely, heck know with jet fuel a lit cigarette can be dropped into a bucket of it, and it will go out, so I would expect diesel is similar as other than sulfur, it's almost interchangeable (makes slightly more heat and the sulfur damages emissions equipment, but many airport fueling trucks run jet fuel with a bit of motor oil rather than diesel for fuel, or did till DEF emissions systems became common)
The unfortunate side effect to the higher flashpoint and less evaporatve nature of diesel is the smell never goes away if you get a drip or drop, unlike gasoline. Would I carry a few gallons in a car unless it was ww3, unlikely, cause a dribble and you basically would want to junk the car or interior when trying to return to your normal life.....

So you aren't planning on wearing a pair of diapers, carrying fuel and driving like 20 hrs nonstop like that NASA astronaut did a few years back when she went to murder her ex's lover and then claim it was a mathematical impossibly that she did it are you?!

 

[GlowBugTDI]

Or you could just put a garbage bag or piece of cardboard down so it doesn't drip on the carpet.....
Fill your fuel can outside the car wipe any spillage off and you'll be fine.

 

[2004LB7]

or you can move whatever is taking up space in the trunk to the back seat and then put the fuel can in the trunk

 

[philngrayce]

Welcome to the club. Stockpiling some diesel in case of future fuel shortages is a good idea, as long as you do it safely and correctly. As previously mentioned, it is much more stable than gasoline, and also less flamable. It’s actually pretty hard to ignite. Carrying it in the car is not as good an idea, but better than carrying gasoline. Spills will be smelly and linger for a long time. It is also likely that diesel will be readily available when gasoline is not. That was the situation around New York after hurricane Sandy.

As to your original question, it is certainly possible to run a 2003 on WVO for a long time. Certainly running it during an emergency will be no problem at all, if the car is properly set up for this. That means a two tank heated system, even in a warm climate. For that matter, in an emergency, you probably could run it straight in the main tank. I do not recommend that, except for an emergency. It will not start very well, and in cooler weather (even in Louisiana you get cold days) it will not start at all.

All that said, it sounds like you have decided not to go with the WVO system, and that is a reasonable decision. But if you are still considering that, I am happy to advise you on the best way to go about it. I have put hundreds of thousands of WVO miles on two VWs (and a Dodge) with absolutely no problems at all. One advantage of the system is that you have two proper, safe tanks and thus a huge range. You could conceivably use both tanks for diesel, if that was your preference. It might also be of interest with current diesel prices; the WVO is pretty close to free. But don’t make the decision lightly.

 

[Master Scott]

Hi! New owner of a 2003 TDI and new to diesel in general. I am interested in being able to run my TDI on veggie oil, primarily just for long trips or emergency evacuations (I live in Louisiana - I don’t want to wait in line at a gas station for unleaded for 6 hours, just to find out it’s all gone EVER again).
My understanding is that because of my warm climate, for most of the year I would be able to put oil right in m tank without “converting” anything, as the conversion is mainly just to heat the oil to temp.
I have heard it is safe to mix about 50/50 oil/diesel.
I have also heard it is safe to put straight oil in the tank here and there, but not good long term practice as it will build up carbon in the engine.
Assuming I DO want to go ahead and start stockpiling some oil - what is a recommended way of filtering it at home?

I think you will be able to get away with 50/50. Here in canada gets much colder where you are, i do have a kit and it works good. Keep up with your oil changes and maintenance

 

[Jr mason]

You can also do this for an extra gallon or so of fuel.

https://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/fuel-tank-venting-faq-and-vent-removal-procedure-lets-you-add-a-few-more-gallons-of-fuel.36091/#post-169942

 

[d24tdi]

Completely aside from the (very serious) reasons not to run WVO from a mechanical perspective -- and IMO those reasons are just about as serious even if you use one of the "kits" that heats the oil vs if you try to get away with running it in a diesel blend or unheated, due to the chemical reasons above -- ....

Where do you think you're gonna get the oil?

If you are thinking you'll just pick it up for free from behind restaurants or that they'll pay you for the favor of taking it off your hands, you are living a fairytale from the past, specifically more than a decade ago. Do a little reading on the current state of the rapidly expanding renewable diesel industry, which uses recycled restaurant waste as one of its feedstocks. Used veggie oil is now a commodity that is in high demand -- not some kind of waste product that folks will be glad to just see disappear. Restaurants are paid handsomely by recycling companies for the used oil they dispose of. If you go help yourself to what's in their grease bin in the middle of the night, it's theft and you will be criminally prosecuted if they catch you. No restaurant in their right mind will give it away for free to some guy with an old VW or Benz who might make a mess on their property, when their alternative is a professional service that will do it in a sanitary way and will PAY THEM BY THE POUND for it.

Yeah, there was a time when sucking free grease from behind your local diner was in fact the deal.... but that time has been over for years.

And sure you could go buy virgin oil from Costco, but have you priced a 35lb carboy of canola lately?

Better off buying diesel. Stockpile a little bit if it that puts your mind at ease. Remember, with a TDI, even 25 gallons sitting in a few jerricans is enough fuel to get you to dang near any destination you might want to go in the lower 48. Biodiesel is a great option but is usually not easy to find anymore and is not as shelf-stable as diesel so if you are looking for something to prep with, diesel is the right choice.

The idea of old fryer grease as "free fuel" was one of those things that was never actually true (due to the cost of the inevitable long term mechanical mayhem and mess) and was only even superficially true, in the sense of the grease itself being free, for a short time. I guess it's still such a compelling idea that it seems to live on forever, long past its expiration date .... but it would sure be nice if it would go away.

 

[jokila]

I get nowhere near 600miles a tank, but that’s another issue, and one I hope to solve when I bring the car to my shop appointment in a few weeks.
I agree though it may be more sensible to just stock pile diesel. Am I correct in that it’s reasonably safe to travel with containers of it inside my car?

You have an automatic trans?

 

[Lightflyer1]

Oil is hard to come by. My work cafeteria used to tap me off 5 gallons a week. I would make biodiesel for that and it was enough for my commuting needs for work.

 

[philngrayce]

There are still places that give the oil away, thought it is not like on the “good old days” when people begged me to take their oil. I still get all the oil from a restaurant in rural Vermont; I suspect it is not worth the recycler’s time and trouble to pick it up. Some years back, when diesel was close to $5 a gallon and WVO was a new thing, the oil was a lot harder to get. But in NYC, there were still lots of places happy to give it away. I don’t know if they were just nice people, or if, similar to rural Vermont, it wasn’t worth the hassle and expense of collecting oil in the city. I don’t know what the situation is there now.

While I disagree with d24tdi about the wisdom and economy of running WVO, his point about availability is right on. Before you do anything else, make sure you have a reliable source of oil. FWIW, it would also be nice if the oil is clean and dry. That said, I suspect the original poster has left the discussion or has decided not to pursue waste oil.