rough idle, 5-spd

[jjblbi]

Adjusted the cam timing and recalibrated the fuel mileage display. The car feels smoother and stronger. We'll see how/if the mileage changes in a tank or two.

The cam timing is pretty easy following the post in this thread. Be aware of the consequences if you don't do it right. JOHN

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Still enjoying my Smoooooooth idle, thank you to AudiMatt and Frank at Rey Reece for finding this fix.

 

[srptdi]

I adjusted mine over the weekend so far its idling smoothly

thanks

 

[lwg]

I'm taking mine to Frank at Ray Reece VW on Friday. He claims I should be out in an hour or so. Having him look at a few other things as well. I'm very impressed with his ability to not assume I don't know what I'm talking about. Got my fingers crossed this will fix it.

On a side note, anybody see any boost in mileage with this fix?

 

[SootHappens]

Mine has stayed the same... I have noticed a slight boost in "boost" however... Gets up to 24 now rather than the 21 before.

 

[SuperJ]

My boost went up slightly under sustained conditions, I now clip 21psi every now and then where it used to be 19-20psi.
I also get a faint smoke trail where I didn't before. It sure revs freely though and pulls to the redline.
I'm going to back it off a couple degrees after I fill up at the end of this week.

 

[SuperJ]

Well I ran my first tank thru with the advanced timing.
I averaged 5.60 L/100km (my last tank of two has been 5.65-5.7ish). So no real big change in fuel economy. I was running cheap truck stop diesel though. I'm going to do my next tank on better Petro Canada Diesel with a bit of PowerService.

 

[AD5GB]

52K - First CEL

I've had this lumpy idle problem since almost new and it's slowly began to happen more and more frequently until it's almost constant. The intensity seems to have gotten worse as well. Yesterday the engine light came on. Got the VAG-COM out (2nd time I've ever used it ) and discovered:

Address 01: Engine Labels: None
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 AB HW: 028 101 223 8
Component: R4 1,9L EDC G000SG 7550
Coding: 0050071
Shop #: WSC 00066

1 Fault Found:
000770 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected
P0302 - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 4
Mileage: 83718 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 17:38:36

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 819 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 14.29 V
Inj. Quantity: -1.25 mg/str
Temperature: 72.9°C
(no units): 0.0

Readiness: 1 1 0 0 0

I've taken the car to the dealer before a couple times but the usual "could not duplicate" response was the norm. The last time however I got a big ration of BS about not having had my car in for regular maint. I explained that I'm a retired (career change actually) Ford mechanic and quite capable of doing my own PM. They asked about the oil I used, wondered where I was able to get ELF 505.01, wanted to change my fuel filter etc. I told them not to touch a thing; I had it under control. All parts were OEM and fluids VW-approved. Strange though, I'm pretty sure they liberated my oil filter cover o-ring. Barring the possibility of the actual existence of rubber-eating microbes I cannot figure out how after 4K into an oil change my o-ring just evaporated. You get into habits after doing things for many years. You know, things like immediately checking for leaks after an oil change. Checking oil levels at every fill-up... no more VW dealers for me. Anyway enough of that... Don't mean to hijack this thread.

My actual question is if anyone else has seen this fault code along with the rough/lumpy idle? I'm going to try to learn enough about the VAG-COM to get it to tell me what the cam timing is but my only experience in adjusting cam timing is back in the old hi-po V8 gasser days; Degree wheels, dial indicators etc. I'm not real comfortable with the "by guess and by gosh" methods of doing this. I'm also going to order the service manual from Ross-Tech. I haven't been able to locate a similar method on this forum though I may have missed it. If I did, could someone kindly point me there? Dial up is not fun and I do get a bit impatient at times, but I have done quite a bit of searching.

Many thanks!

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

AD5GB,

When your car is warm, idling with VAG-Com connected you open up the Engine Controller. Click on Measuring Blocks and hit the up arrow until you are at channel 4. There should be 4 boxes, the one that we have been looking at is labeled idle stabilization, it should be the 4th box, the one on the far right. This value should be between 2.0 and 5.0 to be within spec, adjustments are made by loosening the 3 pulley bolts on the camshaft pulley (very very little adjustment goes a long way). mine was at -2.0 before the adjustment with a rough idle, now it reads around 3.2 and hasn't idled rough once since the adjustment was made. If you don't feel comfortable adjusting your own timing find a TDI guru in your area and they should be able to make an adjustment in about 15 minutes for you.

 

[AD5GB]

Thanks for the VAG-COM crash course! I guess it's finally time for me to dig in and learn how to use the software!!!! I'm not at all uncomfortable with any aspect of the aforementioned adjustments. I get very uncomfortable with the idea of making arbitrary adjustments and especially making them without first establishing a static reference point. Anyone who's ever built a race motor that spins over 8000 rpm will understand that feeling. I've been out of the biz for years but had hoped my MkV would have gone much more than 52K miles before I had to get into such things.

If there is a TDI Guru within an hour from Memphis TN that's not working for the local stealership..... you know where to find me. I think when the VW manual gets here I'll be in good shape. Thanks again!

 

[hid3]

OK. I've read the first several pages of this thread and understood that I have an opposite problem: my engine idles rough AND makes strange mechanical knocks and noise while it is not in operating temperature (a few minutes after starting). Anyone facing such problem? What's happening?

 

[lwg]

Well I got the timing adjusted. It was reading -2.9* and they readjusted to a factory spec of +4.9*. Smooth idle now. Engine is definitely more powerful as well. This makes the car drive closer to what I thought it always should have. Hopefully I can eek out an additional few MPG
s.

 

[RyansToy]

is this only on the mk5?

My 2005 mk4 seems to have a rough idle. Does this solution apply to the previous generation?

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

is this only on the mk5?

My 2005 mk4 seems to have a rough idle. Does this solution apply to the previous generation?

This could happen on any TDI, timing is very critical on a diesel. Seeing how your 2005 MkIV has an almost identical motor I would look into this if you are having a similar issue.

 

[velociT]

Is this worth looking into even if idle if fine?

 

[SootHappens]

...Depends on what your reading is... if yours says 2.0 you could bump it up to 3.7 and experience more power.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Is this worth looking into even if idle if fine?

If you have a Vag-com cable then it only takes a seccond to hook it up and look into.

 

[Lightflyer1]

And if you don't come see me in Round Rock. I do.

 

[mdfirefighter]

Anybody in MD willing to take a look at mine? I'm not confident enough to do this yet.

 

[nokivasara]

I don´t know if I missed it in the thread but I noticed that the "lumpy idle" happens only when you have pressed down the clutch and have a gear selected.
It never shakes if I put the gear in neutral for the last bit of the braking

Edit: manual gearbox. Oops, didn´t notice it was a thread about A5, seems like my A4 does the same.

 

[velociT]

And if you don't come see me in Round Rock. I do.

Will do. I'll send a you a PM.

 

[lwg]

Well after having the idle fixed for over a week now I would suggest everyone get this looked at. The car is a completely different animal now. It runs like our old '03 Golf TDI ran. Got some giddeup now! Now I don't mind waiting a few more months for the new sportwagen as I'm happy with the car again.

I'll check mileage on the next tank, figured this first one would be for checking out the power and such.

And BTW, no more lumpy idle!

 

[DeviantSpeed]

I made the adustement to mine the other day. So far, everything is running fine. Here are some pics.

 

[SBAtdijetta]

I took 06SpiceRedTDI to pick up his car. After talking with Frank, I decided to attempt a fix myself.

When I got home it was shaking like no other; Vag-Com says my timing was 0.2 ATDC, and idle stabilization at 1.0.
I removed the boost pipe and upper timing cover.
I marked where the timing was, then loosened the three outer cam pully bolts.
Using size 18 socket I rotated the center bolt (cam) clockwise a little bit, then tightened the three outer bolts back down.
I Fired it up and it's now at 3.7 BTDC, idle stabilization at 4.9, and idles smoother than it ever has!

I put everything back together and drove around for about 10 miles. Each time I came to a stop there was no shaking...

One odd thing I noticed, is that vag-com is saying the timing is at 0.3 BTDC after it's all warmed up, but idle stabilization stays at 4.9... I wonder if the ECU needs to be reprogrammed after the cam adjustment???

I will know more tomorrow after my 60mi trip to work.

If this truely fixed the shake, it's great news for all who are out-of-warranty and those that don't want a dealer to touch their car... This was easy and only took 15min.

So far so good!

I have got to say , I just stumbled upon this by accident and started reading.

First thanks to those who have helped figured this out. I have always just tapped the go pedal at lights... Very annoying I might add.

I want to do this myself when I have a bit of time tomorrow, but I have one big question... In technical terms how much is a little or just a bit? We are talking 1/2 a cm or less right? 2mm or what? Thanks for any help from those who already have done this! I will check it with Vag-com but I am sure I am out of the range (2-5). I will recheck of course after adjustment.

EDIT: BTW how easy does the center bolt turn...?

I adjusted my cam timing today.
I was -2.9deg in (engine block 4,4) according to my VAG-com.
I went a little too far and am now +6.9deg, you only need to move it a little.
Haven't really driven it yet to see the difference.

 

[jjblbi]

Regarding how far to adjust: my bolt heads were originally centered in the pulley slots (as in the pictures). I rotated the shaft so the slot opening is just covered on one side by the bolt head's built in washer. With three bolts loosened shaft turns easily.

Big difference in power and feel, no idle shake. Hope this makes sense, JOHN

 

[SBAtdijetta]

Regarding how far to adjust: my bolt heads were originally centered in the pulley slots (as in the pictures). I rotated the shaft so the slot opening is just covered on one side by the bolt head's built in washer. With three bolts loosened shaft turns easily.

Big difference in power and feel, no idle shake. Hope this makes sense, JOHN

Thanks John,

That makes lots of sense and helps a bunch!

Steve

 

[syntrix]

WOW!

-0.6 to start with.... +3.9 after. All this after running for about a week after new filter/oil etc

Big difference, especially on the freeway. I do notice that I can actually see a tad bit of soot behind me when going WOT on the freeway now!!

 

[CADtechTDi]

WOW!

-0.6 to start with.... +3.9 after. All this after running for about a week after new filter/oil etc

Big difference, especially on the freeway. I do notice that I can actually see a tad bit of soot behind me when going WOT on the freeway now!!

This value should be between 2.0 and 5.0 to be within spec...

Are these values coming out of the Bentley manual? If so, how in the world can there be so many owners here with readings that are that far out of spec?!? Was this perhaps adjusted at the factory, based on emissions settings instead of degrees (to reduce soot)? That sounds hokey to me too, but... it's just strange all these cars are out of spec with retarded settings.

If I can get my Vag-Com hooked up to my new laptop this weekend, I'm going to have to look into the self-adjustment! I'm tired of spilling coffee on myself at shaky idle.

Oh, while I'm in there wrenching, what should I be looking for as far as timing belt wear- checking? fraying? or won't I be able to see anything to give me an indication of replacement/life expectancy?

 

[CADtechTDi]

BTW- from the sounds of it, this thread should be linked in the FAQs/DIY section - or "sticky'd". Obviously, it's gotta have a huge PERFORM AT YOUR OWN RISK warning attached to it, but it sure sounds promising for those that have exhausted all other avenues to eliminate the shaking.

 

[SootHappens]

DeviantSpeed took some pictures of the procedure... Maybe he can start a new thread titled "DIY Lumpy Idle Fix" and post step-by-step w/ pics. ??

If not, I can do the whole thing next Tuesday.