rough idle, 5-spd

[scrichy84]

Went to Soothappens house last night and adjusted the timing on my car. What a difference!

1. No more parkinsons at idle...the shakes are gone.
2. It is easier to start out in first gear.
3. The car has better response throughout all RPM's
4. It just feels smoother, it is like a whole different driving experience.

My timing started out at -1 degrees and was adjusted to 4.9. It started just fine, but from Soothappens experience, we decided to back it off and set it at 2 degrees. What an easy vehicle to time.

Per the dicussion above, my MFD fuel consumption is reading far too pessimistic. I adjusted my MFD, when new, to 115 like 06SpiceRed to make the MFD fuel consumption more accurate, adjustment will have to be reversed.

 

[hdeptech]

this is cool I am so glad to hear. My car has just started to shake very bad.....I thank all of you.....

 

[fireice]

update. drove car today for 75 miles.

no shake when coming to a stop after a long coast (was happening every time when engine warm).

engine runs smoother and i _think_ it has a wee bit more power.

mpg meter is now about right - used to be about 15% optimistic, but i never corrected it.

ah... the power of the internet...

 

[mdfirefighter]

Ok, so who is going to write the how-to? I'm thinking something with some pictures... =)

 

[fireice]

i really dont think one needs a step-by-step with pictures- it is that simple, but off the top of my head - here it is...

1. remove the engine cover and shroud
2. remove the torx that holds the intake pipe down via a bracket
3. remove the front clamp (i used a set of large pliers to squeeze the clamp open)
4. remove the clip at the throttle body
5. loosen the left-most torx on the engine bracket holding the 3 injector lines - this will allow you to move a bit the lines to unclamp them from the plastic guides on the intake pipe.
6. remove intake pipe
7. unclip the two clips on the plastic timing pulley cover - one is on the front, one is in the back - the rear one is hardly visible, but you can feel it by hand.
8. pull the cover up - it will slide (with some persuation) out
9. mark the position of one or two of the pulley bolts on the pulley
10. loosen the three pulley bolts (dont remember size - 13mm?)
11. using 18" socket turn center bolt clockwise. not much. on my car turning it less then a milimeter (as read in the one of the three pulley bolt slides) was sufficient. i am sure that if one has a vagcom can make a more intelligent instrumentally-verified adjustement, but on my car just a miniscule adjustement made all the difference).
12. tighten the three pulley bolts.
13. assemble back the whole thing together
14. enjoy a smoother all around engine with rough idle a thing of the past...

somebody feel free to correct my procedure and include pictures, whatever...

many thanks to the guy that figured out the timing culprit.

 

[oldpoopie]

You guys are crazy if your adjusting these things by flight and fancy. I'd get the proper locking tools for cam and crank and make sure everything is locked up properly.

 

[SootHappens]

Monday morning "smooth as butter" update. Like Scrichy84 said, it's much easier to take-off in first gear now.

I was very worried about locking the crank and cam too. I even took off the valve cover to watch and make sure it didn't spin without me realizing.
But after loosening the three outer bolts and nothing happened I was greatly relieved... - then adjusted a hair and reassembled.

When I do the timing belt I will likely have a much better understanding of the risk/or lack there of doing this adjustment... For now, I'm very pleased with the results.

Scrichy84 has the Bentley; Does it say anything about cam adjustments?

 

[fireice]

with all the tension created by the pulley and the valve springs i would be very surprised if the cam walks on the cam when the cam bolts are loosened... without doing something really stupid like turning forcefully the crank somehow...

if you just sneak up on the center bolt with a long-lever wrench turning it a smidge clockwise is not a problem....

 

[AudiMatt]

Really glad this is helping people out. I had my doubts when Frank at Rey Reece said they found an issue with the timing but it has been over a month on our Jetta and still nice and smooth. I think I need to give him a call and let him now how much better it is.

I'd be a little worried about adjusting things myself without proper locking tools. Seems like a very expensive accident if something did go wrong.

 

[velociT]

This thread is very interesting.

I noticed a shake in mine, but a 90% clogged fuel filter was the culprit. She idles smooth with a new fuel filter on her.

 

[Airplane MD]

Here's my update. As mentioned previously, my "lumpy Idle" occured intermittantly since new, probably less than 5% of the time. Lately it was becomming more frequent and more pronounced. At all other times, it idles smooth as a sewing machine.

So now I have a new flywheel, clutch and bearing. I keep waiting for it to act up again but so far it is behaving perfectly. I asked the dealer to show me the old flywheel but there really wasn't much to see. The only thing the service manager was able to tell me was that the inner rotating segment was moving much to easily. I was able to slide it back and forth with light finger pressure.

So all this is to say I still really don't have an understanding of the problem but at this point I am more interested in results. If I post no more, assume all is well.

BTW, the car is at about 26K miles.

 

[meekats]

Anyone in Ontario have this fixed?

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

You guys are crazy if your adjusting these things by flight and fancy. I'd get the proper locking tools for cam and crank and make sure everything is locked up properly.

I would at least find someone with VAG-Com or a TDI guru in your area ^^^ so you can check and make sure you are in spec after your adjustment. I have done T-Belts on the older Mk1's without proper locking tools (I improvised) but on a $25k car I think I would be a little more cautious.

 

[E-Z Wood]

I had this problem as well, i went to my local dealer and they couldn't get it to idle rough, so i went down there, took one of their technicians for a ride and got it to perform for him. he said it was most likely a fueling problem. so i replaced the filter and put in some dealer recommended additive. Made by BG, it cleans and lubricates injectors, and boosts cetane. I ran this through five gallons of chevron diesel, and the rough idle went away. i don't notice any shaking or anything out of the ordinary. so i think this fixed my problem.
www.bgprod.com part number 244

 

[SootHappens]

I had this problem as well...

probably not quite the same problem...

We've all tried injector cleaner, new fuel filters, different fuel stations, cetane boost, prayer...

 

[E-Z Wood]

probably not quite the same problem...

We've all tried injector cleaner, new fuel filters, different fuel stations, cetane boost, prayer...

Not quite, but i did have very similar symptoms, the dealer thought it was a fueling problem, but i wanted to change the filter and run the injector cleaner.
Just figured It can't hurt, maybe it will help someone with the same problem i had.

 

[SootHappens]

2 week smooth update... Hasn't shook once since my adjustment!

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

I had this problem as well, i went to my local dealer and they couldn't get it to idle rough, so i went down there, took one of their technicians for a ride and got it to perform for him. he said it was most likely a fueling problem. so i replaced the filter and put in some dealer recommended additive. Made by BG, it cleans and lubricates injectors, and boosts cetane. I ran this through five gallons of chevron diesel, and the rough idle went away. i don't notice any shaking or anything out of the ordinary. so i think this fixed my problem.
www.bgprod.com part number 244

I tried BG, Standyne, Redline, and Powerservice additives. As for brands of diesel I have tried Shell Diesel, Chevron Diesel, 76 Diesel, Fred Meyer Diesel, Safeway Diesel, and USEthonol 5% Biodiesel. It was Very clear that this was absolutely NOT a fuel issue. This timing fix was performed 2 weeks ago by Rey Reece and I have not had the car shake, miss, or studder on me ONE time since the fix was performed, and my car has been doing this since it had 200 miles on the clock, it is currently at 33524.

 

[jjblbi]

Thanks to all for the diagnosis and fix, I will be adjusting me timing this weekend. Does anyone know if these cam bolts are stretch bolts like the A4 injection pump? JOHN

 

[fireice]

2 week smooth update... Hasn't shook once since my adjustment!

same here. car has not misbehaved once. used to do it regularly.

no shaking at idle, smoother, mpg readout is very close to actual.

all is good.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Thanks to all for the diagnosis and fix, I will be adjusting me timing this weekend. Does anyone know if these cam bolts are stretch bolts like the A4 injection pump? JOHN

When the dealer did the adjustment on mine they didn't list any bolts on the invoice that were replaced, anyone have a bently to look this up?

 

[Lightflyer1]

I don't see that the Bentley manual mentions any one time use bolts under cam removal and replacement or belt replacement.

 

[Mach1]

The cam adjustment bolts are NOT TTY..They are torqued to 18 ft lbs...no stretch bolts there..13mm head size and do torque them..

TTY are used for mounts and head bolts mostly, not for any adjustment points...

 

[SuperJ]

I adjusted my cam timing today.
I was -2.9deg in (engine block 4,4) according to my VAG-com.
I went a little too far and am now +6.9deg, you only need to move it a little.
Haven't really driven it yet to see the difference.

 

[sfoote]

My car has been suffering from a worsening case of the "shudders" since I have had it. I am almost at the point of taking it out to the desert and shooting the dang thing.

Today at the stealership all I got was blank stares from everyone when I mentioned it.

This is rediculous.

 

[SootHappens]

hehe.. time to get out the socket set!

 

[sfoote]

Okay, who in NM wants to adjust my timing?

 

[sfoote]

Did I mention that the whole back-end of my engine is covered in what looks, feels, and smells to me to be oily sooty residue.

What in the world would cause that?

Seems to be centralized around the actuator, looks like blow by, but from where? Im not getting any noise that I know of, no smoke.

***?

 

[SuperJ]

The residue may be coming from an exhaust leak. I had a leak in my egr cooler (under the turbo behind the engine) causing a bit of a mess.
They replaced it under warranty (still shook afterwards).
I'll know today if my timing adjustment worked. It is really easy to do if you have a VAG-com to measure your results.
One question though, what is the source of the 2-5 deg range in (engine block 4,4)?

 

[SuperJ]

We'll no shudder yet, even when I try to duplicate it. I pulls like a raped ape with the advanced cam and RC1+. I noticed it smokes a bit now, where it didn't at all before.

Is there any way: more cam advance = more air = more fuel = more smoke ?
It certainly feels stronger and is more willing to pull well past the redline.