rough idle, 5-spd

[mdfirefighter]

I seem to only get this after driving at highway speeds and then comming to a stop. But its really geting annoying.

 

[TwoTone]

I seem to only get this after driving at highway speeds and then comming to a stop. But its really geting annoying.

Same here.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

Mine would just shake whenever the hell it wanted too. It only did it when it was warmed up to 190. It is at Rey Reece VW in Portland today hopefully needing the same fix as AudiMatt got with the timing. My car has done this since the first week I owned the car, so I am really hoping this is the fix.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

apparently the timing is supposed to be at approximately 2 degrees and the timing on our Jetta was set at something like 0.2. I am guessing this is cam timing in relation to the crank specifically with regard to when the injectors are firing.

I just got off of the phone with Frank at Reece and he said the reading of engine block 4 no. 4 is supposed to be between 2-5 mine was at -2 so I was even farther off than Matt's was. The fix for this is done via manual adjustment of the Camshaft pulley.

 

[2footbraker]

Interesting. I guess someone at the factory doesn't know how to time an engine properly.

 

[boat.man]

I had the rough idle problem almost sense new. The car had misfire codes and made many trips to the dealer with no result. I replaced the DMF with a Valeo SMF kit over 10 k miles ago. The car has run PERFECT sense that day!! I am convinced that it is the dmf... I can turn the inner plate by hand. That may cause the flywheel to be out of balance.

 

[oldpoopie]

are any of the cars that do this DSG equipped, or are they all manual trans cars?

 

[SootHappens]

I took 06SpiceRedTDI to pick up his car. After talking with Frank, I decided to attempt a fix myself.

When I got home it was shaking like no other; Vag-Com says my timing was 0.2 ATDC, and idle stabilization at 1.0.
I removed the boost pipe and upper timing cover.
I marked where the timing was, then loosened the three outer cam pully bolts.
Using size 18 socket I rotated the center bolt (cam) clockwise a little bit, then tightened the three outer bolts back down.
I Fired it up and it's now at 3.7 BTDC, idle stabilization at 4.9, and idles smoother than it ever has!

I put everything back together and drove around for about 10 miles. Each time I came to a stop there was no shaking...

One odd thing I noticed, is that vag-com is saying the timing is at 0.3 BTDC after it's all warmed up, but idle stabilization stays at 4.9... I wonder if the ECU needs to be reprogrammed after the cam adjustment???

I will know more tomorrow after my 60mi trip to work.

If this truely fixed the shake, it's great news for all who are out-of-warranty and those that don't want a dealer to touch their car... This was easy and only took 15min.

So far so good!

 

[lwg]

I will probably give Frank a call after about a week (need my car until then) and try to run my car by. Sounding promising, please keep updating this thread with results as they come available.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

After Driving my car for 5 miles from the Dealer we got a chance to hook up Vag-Com and read the Engine Measuring Blocks Channel 4 and got a steady 3.1 BTDC on the timing at idle and Block 4 (Idle Stabilization) Now has a value of 3.6. I'm pretty sure Block 4 is the value that was reading -2 before (spec. is 2-5) as the actual timing give a BTDC or ATDC reading. Idle Stabilization will give a negitive reading. As Soothappens said, you have to manually advance the Cam timing and then recheck the values with VAG. As for my car I no longer have my lumpy Idle, it has been smooth in all situations that it would have been rough before.

 

[Airplane MD]

Well, inspection has revealed a defective flywheel. It should be swapped out by tomorrow.

Since the car runs like a sewing machine 99% of the time (although it got progressively worse), I am hopeful this is the problem with mine. I'll report results soon.

 

[SootHappens]

I made it to work... It was 30 degrees @ my house this morning and the TDI started just fine (as normal), but is noticably smoother.
There seems to be a tad more torque/power throughout the rpm curve (I've got alligator).
When I got off the freeway, it was smooth as butter. I'm very pleased so far. I will keep all posted if any of my results change.

 

[fireice]

I took 06SpiceRedTDI to pick up his car. After talking with Frank, I decided to attempt a fix myself.

When I got home it was shaking like no other; Vag-Com says my timing was 0.2 ATDC, and idle stabilization at 1.0.
I removed the boost pipe and upper timing cover.
I marked where the timing was, then loosened the three outer cam pully bolts.
Using size 18 socket I rotated the center bolt (cam) clockwise a little bit, then tightened the three outer bolts back down.
I Fired it up and it's now at 3.7 BTDC, idle stabilization at 4.9, and idles smoother than it ever has!

I put everything back together and drove around for about 10 miles. Each time I came to a stop there was no shaking...

One odd thing I noticed, is that vag-com is saying the timing is at 0.3 BTDC after it's all warmed up, but idle stabilization stays at 4.9... I wonder if the ECU needs to be reprogrammed after the cam adjustment???

I will know more tomorrow after my 60mi trip to work.

If this truely fixed the shake, it's great news for all who are out-of-warranty and those that don't want a dealer to touch their car... This was easy and only took 15min.

So far so good!

this is exactly what i wanted to hear. please keep us posted on the results and if the shake comes back.

alex

 

[TwoTone]

I had the rough idle problem almost sense new. The car had misfire codes and made many trips to the dealer with no result. I replaced the DMF with a Valeo SMF kit over 10 k miles ago. The car has run PERFECT sense that day!! I am convinced that it is the dmf... I can turn the inner plate by hand. That may cause the flywheel to be out of balance.

Same symptoms, different cause. As I mentioned, I have the SMF and still have the same rough idle before and after the swap.

 

[buckeye96]

I have been able to recreate the shake. When I can coast (pull it out of gear) to a red light/stop sign, I have found that it is much more likely to get the lumpy idle. Of course this doesn't really help those with the DSG.

 

[lwg]

I made it to work... It was 30 degrees @ my house this morning and the TDI started just fine (as normal), but is noticably smoother.
There seems to be a tad more torque/power throughout the rpm curve (I've got alligator).
When I got off the freeway, it was smooth as butter. I'm very pleased so far. I will keep all posted if any of my results change.

After thinking about this through the day I was actually curious if there would be any noticable difference in power. One might even suspect a slight improvement in mileage. Maybe I'll finally break 45MPG if this turns out to be my problem...

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

As for my car I no longer have my lumpy Idle, it has been smooth in all situations that it would have been rough before.

UPDATE: The shake is still GONE, I cannot believe this is the same car. It is smoother than it ever has been. My MFD correction is off now though, it looks like I need to set it back to where it was when I bought the car, go figure, I guess it might have been right in the first place if they would have set the timing correctly from the factory.

 

[Lightflyer1]

What is off in the MFD? There are lots of gauges in the thing.

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

What is off in the MFD? There are lots of gauges in the thing.

When I got the car the MFD Fuel consumption was Very optimistic, I corrected this via one of the Values in adaptation in VAG-COM. Now that the timing is correct the Fuel consumption is reading really low, about as far off as it was in the other direction when I got the car.

 

[GoFaster]

Hmmmm ... It makes sense that cam timing slightly off spec could cause something like this.

I had the timing belt changed last fall, and I'd have to say that although the slight rough idle is not *completely* gone, it's even more subdued. (Mine was never bad enough to pursue doing anything about it)

 

[SootHappens]

Still running smooth update.

 

[fireice]

i am advancing my cam pulley tonight.

stay tuned.

where is the cam cover? havent looked much under the hood of the jetta... i assume it is on the left-hand side of the engine when standing in front of the car- right?

a pic would be nice- if not - i will just swing it while under the hood...

alex

 

[2footbraker]

I don't think it is such a great idea if you have no experience timing a diesel engine.

 

[Lightflyer1]

i am advancing my cam pulley tonight.

stay tuned.

alex

This is an $8000.00 experiment. You are your own warranty if you mess this up!

 

[fireice]

warranty? what warranty... long gone.

what is the downside of advancing timing a smidge on a diesel engine? it is not like it will start to detonate... worst is it can lose some power in which case i will retard it promptly.

alex

 

[SootHappens]

Yes it's on the left side of the engine.
Just remove the boost pipe (1 torx bolt and hose clips at each end).
The upper timing cover is held on by 2 spring-clips, then it slides up and off.
I don't think it's possible to advance/retard the cam timing enough to do any sort of damage. I went a little too far and it simply wouldn't start.
I will probably retard my timing a little bit since it's on the high-side at 4.9 and I'd like to get it back to 3 or so.

 

[fireice]

oh come on- no factory adjustable pulley that i know of will allow you to degree the cam to a point where there will be sex between the pistons and the valves... this is done so if the bolts give away the pulley does not cause a major mechanical failure. this is done so when don pedro on 5 tequilas monday morning adjusts those things he doesn't cost the company a small fortune...

i am simply not concerned about nudging the timing a degree and trying it out.

if i dont like as i said i will pull it back. no harm.


alex

 

[fireice]

it was very straight-forward.

i losened the three bolts and turned the center bolt just a smidge forward and tightened the three pulley bolts back.

put everything back together, fired up the car and went for a ride.

immediate observations:

1. the engine is smoother at any speeds - especially at idle
2. my mpg reading is closer to real - it was very optimistic before- about 15% too optimistic.
3. i could not recreate the shake at idle - and i am good at causing it.

so far so good.

will provide more definitive update in few days.

wow.

ps. when i removed the intake pipe it was very very wet with oil inside. is this normal?

thank you again

 

[06SpiceRedTDI]

2. my mpg reading is closer to real - it was very optimistic before- about 15% too optimistic.

I think I adjusted mine by 15% to 115 from 100 when I did the mileage correction, and it looks like I need to put it back now.

 

[DPM]

"no factory adjustable pulley that i know of will allow you to degree the cam to a point where there will be sex between the pistons and the valves..."

Fail.