RIP: [warning: crushed car pics]

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
And most TDI owners, I'd venture, aren't on here (I mean, there's 104k total members, and 13.7k "active" members worldwide, versus 480k 2.0 CRs and like 80k 3.0 CRs in the US alone), and even if they are here, they aren't perfectly operating and maintaining their cars for absolute maximum longevity.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
For the "clean diesels" including the VW common-rail engines, the problem as far as durability is concerned, isn't the engine itself. It's the fuel injection and emission control components.

HPFP. DPF. EGR (low pressure) including that infernal back-pressure flap. EGR (high pressure). Turbocharger. Intercooler. SCR (where equipped) or LNT (which was VW's failure point). High-pressure injectors. Glow plugs. All the sensors that make all this work. There's a lot of expensive stuff there.

My current daily driver has: 3-way catalyst, O2 sensors before and after catalyst, evap system, and a fancy variable valve timing system (and these have proven to be quite reliable). That's IT. No turbo, no EGR, no MAF sensor, no particulate filter, no high pressure fuel injection system.

I do not think "clean diesel" engines from any manufacturer will have exceptional durability - the engine itself may be OK, but it will be too expensive to keep them running. That's why I've gone back to plain ordinary non-turbo port-injected gasoline engines - but with advanced VVT systems, which help with the efficiency. The efficiency doesn't match diesel ... but there's a lot less to go wrong.
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
For the "clean diesels" including the VW common-rail engines, the problem as far as durability is concerned, isn't the engine itself. It's the fuel injection and emission control components.

HPFP. DPF. EGR (low pressure) including that infernal back-pressure flap. EGR (high pressure). Turbocharger. Intercooler. SCR (where equipped) or LNT (which was VW's failure point). High-pressure injectors. Glow plugs. All the sensors that make all this work. There's a lot of expensive stuff there.

My current daily driver has: 3-way catalyst, O2 sensors before and after catalyst, evap system, and a fancy variable valve timing system (and these have proven to be quite reliable). That's IT. No turbo, no EGR, no MAF sensor, no particulate filter, no high pressure fuel injection system.

I do not think "clean diesel" engines from any manufacturer will have exceptional durability - the engine itself may be OK, but it will be too expensive to keep them running. That's why I've gone back to plain ordinary non-turbo port-injected gasoline engines - but with advanced VVT systems, which help with the efficiency. The efficiency doesn't match diesel ... but there's a lot less to go wrong.
That's why I like my Volt, it's a genset on wheels with a simple engine.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
And my daily driver has a MAF, a 3-way catalyst, O2 sensors, a post-cat coolant heat exchanger, EGR only after the cat and coolant heat exchanger, a fancy AT-PZEV evap system, and fairly simple intake-only VVT.

As I understand, the only part of that that's truly problematic on previous generations has been the EGR (although I have heard of the coolant heat exchangers letting go on the previous generation), and it was pre-cat on that generation - consensus is that intake clogging should be reduced or eliminated on my generation.

Oh, and 40% thermal efficiency. So, not far off of diesels.
 
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ezshift5

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2003
Location
West Coast
TDI
2013 JSW TDI (Enroute BB).......2017 Jetta 1.4 turbo 5M ....................
Oh, and 40% thermal efficiency. So, not far off of diesels.
I have enjoyed my TDI for over four years.

I am delighted that VW has offered me the same $$$ as I coughed up during the spring of 2013.

54.5 MPG Long Beach to Sacramento is hard to beat.

Today I looked at the new Honda Civic hatch.....but the rearward visibility is terrible.

The Alltrack is a fine auto (but the MPG penalty - compared with my '13 TDI JSW 6M - is large).

The front wheel drive GSW gets better fuel efficiency numbers.......................

But there are those of us who really don't (or can't) appreciate CLOTH........


ez (on the banks of the Saccramento)
 
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bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
Mind you, there is always swapping V-Tex in from another car, if that's the one you love.

(The 40% thermal efficiency, though, is not what a GSW 1.8T gets at its peak. I'm referring to the peak efficiency of the ESTEC version of the Toyota 2ZR-FXE, as used in the Gen 4 Prius.)
 

fookin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
I have enjoyed my TDI for over four years.

I am delighted that VW has offered me the same $$$ as I coughed up during the spring of 2013.

54.5 MPG Long Beach to Sacramento is hard to beat.
I find that difficult to believe. My A3 TDI gets avg 40 mpg, sometimes 39, in trips between Sac and Bay Area. I drive 75 to 85 mpg like the flow of traffic. I know trips down 5 to LA the flow of traffic is 80 minimum with 85 mph the median. How do you get 55 mpg without going 45 mph???
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Mind you, there is always swapping V-Tex in from another car, if that's the one you love.
My wife has always commented that her Golf had more supportive seats than the JSW, so I offered to swap out the front seats before we turned in the Golf. Although as I looked at them, the seats in the Golf were much more disgusting than those in the JSW at half the mileage. Not saying that my wife is a pig but...
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
I find that difficult to believe. My A3 TDI gets avg 40 mpg, sometimes 39, in trips between Sac and Bay Area. I drive 75 to 85 mpg like the flow of traffic. I know trips down 5 to LA the flow of traffic is 80 minimum with 85 mph the median. How do you get 55 mpg without going 45 mph???
Unfortunately for us, the Audi A3 TDI can't match the VW's fuel consumption.
I don't know why, maybe worse aerodynamics? My milage mirrors yours, mostly.
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Unfortunately for us, the Audi A3 TDI can't match the VW's fuel consumption.
I don't know why maybe worse aerodynamics? My mileage mirrors yours, mostly.
you can travel at a real world speed and get good mpgs if you drive with a lighter foot on takeoff and when going up a grade...

Letting the car slow some while going up a grade can save a lot of fuel, using a lighter foot on takeoff not hammering the throttle to set 0-60 time records on every start from a stop.....

also putting effort not hammer the throttle just to have to hammer the brakes can save a lot of fuel......these conditions are where the most fuel is wasted....


And I have years of driving across congested parts of CA and still getting great mpgs using these things listed above to save fuel...

my wife does all the things which hurt mpgs and loses on average 10-15 mpgs over what I see while driving the same CA highway & freeway miles....

also, I always try to use N while in stop & go heavy traffic to coast unless I need engine input to hold speed while creeping along, documented that this saves from 3 to 10 mpgs depending on situations where this is used...
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
you can travel at a real world speed and get good mpgs if you drive with a lighter foot on takeoff and when going up a grade...

Letting the car slow some while going up a grade can save a lot of fuel, using a lighter foot on takeoff not hammering the throttle to set 0-60 time records on every start from a stop.....

also putting effort not hammer the throttle just to have to hammer the brakes can save a lot of fuel......these conditions are where the most fuel is wasted....


And I have years of driving across congested parts of CA and still getting great mpgs using these things listed above to save fuel...

my wife does all the things which hurt mpgs and loses on average 10-15 mpgs over what I see while driving the same CA highway & freeway miles....
Great post

My opinion is those who need a brake job in less than 100,000 miles, are over driving (wasting fuel) -- Each to his-her own :rolleyes:
 

fookin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Location
California
TDI
A3
Great post

My opinion is those who need a brake job in less than 100,000 miles, are over driving (wasting fuel) -- Each to his-her own :rolleyes:
We're talking steady state highway driving people. None of the responses answered how it's possible for one 2.0 TDI to get 39 mpg while another TDI to get 54 mpg. I contend the 54 figure is gross exaggeration. No one can formulate that figure as possible unless driving 45 mph with a tail wind - maybe. Hopefully, in the right lane and somehow not endangering the rest of the highway. I throw the BS flag.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The mk6? Audi a3 weighs 3300 lbs., over 400 pounds heavier than my mk6 golf tdi. Probably a combination of weight, gearing (dsg's do worse), and possibly aerodynamics. I can achieve 50 mpg with my golf in warm weather without trying too hard. I rarely try though.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
We're talking steady state highway driving people. None of the responses answered how it's possible for one 2.0 TDI to get 39 mpg while another TDI to get 54 mpg. I contend the 54 figure is gross exaggeration. No one can formulate that figure as possible unless driving 45 mph with a tail wind - maybe. <snip>.
Who knows:confused:

As I look at (A) FUELLY the range is all over the place. Last I looked it was from the 20s to the 50s on the same-same-ish

Go figure. I make it up to driving habits. Some like to stomp the heck out of 'em
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
We're talking steady state highway driving people. None of the responses answered how it's possible for one 2.0 TDI to get 39 mpg while another TDI to get 54 mpg. I contend the 54 figure is gross exaggeration. No one can formulate that figure as possible unless driving 45 mph with a tail wind - maybe. Hopefully, in the right lane and somehow not endangering the rest of the highway. I throw the BS flag.
When we still owned our 2000 TDI beetle, the mileage would vary by as much as 10 mpg a tank depending on if my wife or I was driving it. She tended to rev higher and drive it a little harder than I did. As for the CR diesels, I averaging just over 40 mpg lifetime and can get the mfd to show as high as mid 50s for cruising on the highway. I think the best pen and paper calculation I've pulled out the JSW has been around 44. I've seen numbers posted here and on Fuelly at 10 mpg better for those with a manual because the gearing is higher and there is less weight and power drag from the DSG.
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
We're talking steady state highway driving people. None of the responses answered how it's possible for one 2.0 TDI to get 39 mpg while another TDI to get 54 mpg. I contend the 54 figure is gross exaggeration. No one can formulate that figure as possible unless driving 45 mph with a tail wind - maybe. Hopefully, in the right lane and somehow not endangering the rest of the highway. I throw the BS flag.
Short of driving across the flat parts of the western US plains there are almost always areas where terrain is available to use as fuel. Saving fuel....

Having just traveled across big sections of CA I can with confidense say the state has very little areas where these practices cannot be used to save fuel. ... turn the cruise control off, let the car slow a little going up the many grades....use the down hill stretches to build speeds....then watches the mpgs climb. ...
 
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2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
We're talking steady state highway driving people. None of the responses answered how it's possible for one 2.0 TDI to get 39 mpg while another TDI to get 54 mpg. I contend the 54 figure is gross exaggeration. No one can formulate that figure as possible unless driving 45 mph with a tail wind - maybe. Hopefully, in the right lane and somehow not endangering the rest of the highway. I throw the BS flag.
Best (& worst ) MPG to and from Stillwater was 60.1 -- and 55-ish -- at 5 MPH under the limit (and yes in the correct lane)

Same route ~~ wind? -- more less AC -- who knows

Have not been able to reproduce the 60.1 MPG this year.

maybe I need to get a copy of the Italian tone book -- :p

When you look at FUELLY and you see a wide range -- get ready to have extra BS flags
 

CHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Location
The Great Pacific Northwest
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 4D DSG (gone buyback)
Short of driving across the flat parts of the western US plains there are almost always areas where terrain is available to use as fuel. Saving fuel....

Having just traveled across big sections of CA I can with confidense say the state has very little areas where these practices cannot be used to save fuel. ... turn the cruise control off, let the car slow a little going up the many grades....use the down hill stretches to build speeds....then watches the mpgs climb. ...
Since this thread has already been hopelessly hijacked...

The best TRIP mpg I ever had (2011 Golf DSG) was about 360 miles from western WA (sea level), across Washington Pass (elev. 5,477), to Winthrop WA (elev. 1760) and back. Got 50.1 mpg (corrected from odometer consumption reading--mine overestimates by about 0.5 mpg). Weather was about 70 degrees on both sides of the mountains--considerably cooler at the pass. No wind. MPG would have been 1-2 mpg higher except for some traffic. Lots of travel around 55 mph. Speed kills mpgs! It may seem counterintuitive, but I had a similar high-mileage experience with my wife's GLC300 going across the pass. Eased off accelerator going up the mountain, and let it fly going down. I have no doubt that someone can achieve 55 mpg under the right conditions, especially with a manual transmission.

The problem with mpg is that it's usually calculated at fillup. If the car's not quite level or the pump auto-shutoff is too sensitive, you can get a 5+ mpg difference from actual mpg, especially if you were "overfilled" then "underfill" when doing the calculation.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Short of driving across the flat parts of the western US plains there are almost always areas where terrain is available to use as fuel. Saving fuel....

Having just traveled across big sections of CA I can with confidense say the state has very little areas where these practices cannot be used to save fuel. ... turn the cruise control off, let the car slow a little going up the many grades....use the down hill stretches to build speeds....then watches the mpgs climb. ...
A few years back, I was on the interstate in VA watching a prius do just that. Every downhill stretch he would fly past me and every uphill, I would cruise past him with cruise set at about 6 over posted limit. On one long decline, he went past me like I was standing still. Come up around the next curve and there he is, getting the blue light treatment. Don't ask why I know I can't afford to speed in VA.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
The problem with mpg is that it's usually calculated at fillup. If the car's not quite level or the pump auto-shutoff is too sensitive, you can get a 5+ mpg difference from actual mpg, especially if you were "overfilled" then "underfill" when doing the calculation.
That's why I rarely look at single tank calculations. I look at the overall miles per tank to see if something looks off, but typically talk about life time average mileage. Sure I have the best tank ever stories but if I'm trying to see what effects my mileage, like changing tires, I look at 5000 mile increments.
 

CHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Location
The Great Pacific Northwest
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 4D DSG (gone buyback)
A few years back, I was on the interstate in VA watching a prius do just that. Every downhill stretch he would fly past me and every uphill, I would cruise past him with cruise set at about 6 over posted limit. On one long decline, he went past me like I was standing still. Come up around the next curve and there he is, getting the blue light treatment. Don't ask why I know I can't afford to speed in VA.
In theory, if we compare to constant 60 mph speed on flat terrain, going up a hill at, say, 45 mph will significantly reduce wind drag, though fuel consumption will increase due to the incline. Coasting at 70 or 75 mph downhill incurs no wind drag penalty since you're just using drag instead of brakes to keep the car from going 90 or 100 mph (depending on incline, of course). Ideally, for highest mpgs, you'd drive up a steep hill at 45 mph, then coast down a long, gradual hill at whatever speed the car will maintain.
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
First I need to make clear that allowing extreme speeds was never what I was suggested someone achieve on the downgrades. ...

Only speeds up to the around the posted max, that is, allow speeds down to the point where the load is reduced not to produce an extreme heat pulse pushing up egrs & or not to the point an overheat pulse in the engine's cooling system.....

....on steep grades allow the car to slow down to the point that you are not pouring fuel in, then use the downside of the grade too with less fuel used get back to appropriate speed within reason....

I recently drove many miles in automatic Corolla, I let it slow the point which the trans would not drop a gear.... but will still hold speed. then when going down the other side of grade I let the car go to close to the speed limit using a lower gear in overrunning to keep downgrade speed within reason...

I regularly used N in heavy traffic when terrain allows me to hold speed...

My mpgs were pen & paper 8 to 12 mpgs higher than my wife's just using CC letting the engine roar holding speed on the upgrades...I saw the high 20s to ~30 mpgs, ....

...while the tanks my wife clocked were around 18 to ~20 mpgs...

No extreme coasting should ever be required or done to see a reasonable mpg increase...
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Silver Jetta GLS Wagon 93K miles!! 1 owner Autotragic but not for long!
Turned mine in the very first day available (just before Thanksgiving) I was already driving my replacement, a 2016 Jeep Cherokee that gets half the MPGs

Thx for the gas guzzling pollution machine VW
I would have updated my 2003 TDI but now? Nope, cant do it... and Im gonna drive the snot out of my 2003 and smoke the crap out of the EPA... God I hate those bastards... Never did anything honestly ever.
 

surfstar

Veteran Member
Joined
May 3, 2017
Location
SB, CA
TDI
2014 Golf & Passat - sold | 2016 GSW TSI
I would have updated my 2003 TDI but now? Nope, cant do it... and Im gonna drive the snot out of my 2003 and smoke the crap out of the EPA... God I hate those bastards... Never did anything honestly ever.
Right. Except the whole clean air and water thing.
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Location
Oklahoma
TDI
2015 VW Golf S DSG Silver
I would have updated my 2003 TDI but now? Nope, cant do it... and Im gonna drive the snot out of my 2003 and smoke the crap out of the EPA... God I hate those bastards... Never did anything honestly ever.
Thanks to the CAS attorneys, FTC, EPA, CARB, etc., we are getting the BB (or) fix financial car situation of a life time.

me thinks
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Right. Except the whole clean air and water thing.
But the difference between 2005 and present? Nothing but wasted taxpayers money. Nobody is arguing that a 1960's V8 gas guzzler has a bad effect on air quality.

EPA/CARB did their good but now they are useless obstructive money-sucking job-killing agencies.
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
But the difference between 2005 and present? Nothing but wasted taxpayers money. Nobody is arguing that a 1960's V8 gas guzzler has a bad effect on air quality.
EPA/CARB did their good but now they are useless obstructive money-sucking job-killing agencies.
Unless you look at actual data, that is.
In southern CA the last 12 years has seen an increase in vehicle miles driven of
around 25% without a similar increase in air pollution measurements.
This only happens because of incremental improvement in emissions control.
Oh yeah, CA is the 6th largest economy in the world despite all that 'job-killing'. :rolleyes:
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
We're talking steady state highway driving people. None of the responses answered how it's possible for one 2.0 TDI to get 39 mpg while another TDI to get 54 mpg. I contend the 54 figure is gross exaggeration. No one can formulate that figure as possible unless driving 45 mph with a tail wind - maybe. Hopefully, in the right lane and somehow not endangering the rest of the highway. I throw the BS flag.
Just fyi, my first two tanks in my new stop-sale '15 GSW are netting over 53 actual (not indicated) mpg. This is driving 5-10 mph over the speed limit throughout the tank. I use common-sense (not extreme hypermiling) techniques, like accelerating lightly and coasting in gear (I'm DSG, fyi, so D) to red lights and stop signs, always being mindful of other drivers. If I'm half a mile from a stop sign and there's a car behind me, I do not begin coasting like I normally would, as that would be extremely annoying to that driver. My goal is to never tick off other drivers. I go with the flow, draft off larger vehicles without dangerously tailgating, etc. No pulse and glides or wild exotic stuff. I am a very non-offensive driver, and not just in my mind like a Prius driver doing 54 mph in the center lane of the DC beltway.
 

peterdaniel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Location
Campbell, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GL 5 spd TDi, 2003 Jetta GLS Indigo blue 5spd wagon. 2003 Silver Jetta GLS Wagon 93K miles!! 1 owner Autotragic but not for long!
So lets attack the diesel engine right? The one engine that can run on synthetic man made fuel. The most efficient one as well. Hmmm who would stand to lose the most? That's right, the oil industry. I love how some of you guys still cling to your opinion that man is mostly Don Quixote when he is anything but. The EPA has become this self-serving perpetual machine that cares about keeping itself in business. One that can create its own rules to create its own income. It is a joke. Where are the rules requiring solar power on every new building? Where is the EPA when millions of cattle and livestock pollute the drinking water with poop and piss while destroying the land by cutting down trees? Where are they when fracking is causing earthquakes? WHERE ARE THEY? That's right, they cower because their motivation isn't pure as the air and water they keep telling everyone should be. And they SELL pollution credits... Want to pollute? Pay.

Wake up.

The rules governing diesel emissions are not logical nor rational. This was all about ego and money. Period
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
So lets attack the diesel engine right? The one engine that can run on synthetic man made fuel.

Gasoline can be synthesized by Fischer-Tropsch and STG+ gas to liquid processes. Plus spark ignition works well with alcohol, methane, and a variety of hydrocarbons.
 
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