RIP: [warning: crushed car pics]

[GoFaster]

I don't recall seeing that anywhere. I recall that the ECU and the LNT (the main emission control components involved in the scandal) had to be destroyed.

There will be an oversupply of these engines if there were an attempt to remove them nicely for spare parts, anyhow.

 

[DanB36]

Block has to be destroyed, though.

No, it doesn't. Stop spreading FUD.

 

[bhtooefr]

Ah, my bad, that was for the mitigation projects, not for disabling the cars.

Here's the quote, though, from page 12 of Appendix D-2 to the partial consent decree (the part about mitigation projects):

“Scrapped” shall mean to render inoperable and available for recycle, and, at a minimum, to specifically cut a 3-inch hole in the engine block for all engines. If any Eligible Vehicle will be replaced as part of an Eligible project, scrapped shall also include the disabling of the chassis by cutting the vehicle’s frame rails completely in half.

 

[TurnOne]

Seems the value of the parts will fall dramatically. Market forces, the number who could need or use the part falling fast (buybacks), availability of used spares would increase dramatically (bought back parts) = low pricing.

 

[Armby]

Block has to be destroyed, though.

Incorrect. You are thinking about either cash for clunkers or the EPA program which VW funds as part of this settlement to retire old trucks and buses. Block can be resold.

 

[turbobrick240]

Hard to tell if the cars in the photos still have their drivetrains. One looks awfully flat, and another appears to be leaking oil on the car below it.

 

[GoFaster]

Unless they're planning to resell parts (which they can't, in this case), junkyards don't remove drivetrains "nicely" by unbolting and disconnecting them. They open the hood with a forklift and hold the car down somehow while ripping the engine out with a forklift or a crane. The mostly-intact grilles on these flattened cars suggest that didn't happen. They don't drain fluids "nicely", either ... they punch a hole in the fuel tank and the oil pan.

 

[flargabarg]

That depends on the junkyard. Some of them also want to be able to sell fenders and grilles, and intact oil pans.

 

[GoFaster]

Grilles and fenders on a car that has gone through the crusher aren't about to be picked off and sold afterward.

Engines, or engine parts, on a car that is destined to be an orphan with an enormous oversupply of used parts available for a seriously diminished number that are still on the road, aren't about to be taken out "nicely" and offered up for sale.

Whether the engine gets ripped out depends (A) on whether VW is requiring them to not take any parts off the cars (see second-hand reporting of this elsewhere) and (B) on whether the scrapyard can get more money for the total engine + vehicle by separating them. (the engine has a significant amount of aluminum in it)

 

[jeepnguy]

The completely pancaked one with the red BAXTER tag is from the local dealership in Omaha LOL.

 

[FVWVWF]

The completely pancaked one with the red BAXTER tag is from the local dealership in Omaha LOL.

Can you take a swing by there and see what is going on? Then let us know.

 

[jeepnguy]

The crushed crushing isn't being done here in Omaha, just recognized the Dealer Plate

 

[kjclow]

...also, the Jetta Sport Wagon has the chrome-striped Highline grill. The MK6 Golf does not, it just has the black grill. I installed the lower Highline grill on my Golf and it looks pretty sweet, btw. It really pops the lower air scoop.

Only the 09 JSW had the chrome strip. My 10 is the MKVI front end back to the front pillars. That's why some refer to it as the MKV.5

 

[Yawiney]

So, which years will be "fixed" vs. "scrapped" once bought back?

 

[kjclow]

My wag: anything over 100K miles and anything older than 2013 will be crushed. Makes a nice simple search.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

My wag: anything over 100K miles and anything older than 2013.

I'll second that.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

My wag: anything over 100K miles and anything older than 2013 will be crushed. Makes a nice simple search.

Agreed

 

[NSTDI]

Agreed

I doubt that non conforming emissions engines will be sold intact if the car is being crushed, not fixed.

 

[dvandentop]

Damn where were these taken I am guessing Midwest since Baxter is an Omaha dealer

 

[whitedog]

My wag: anything over 100K miles and anything older than 2013 will be crushed. Makes a nice simple search.

Why 2013? Were there major changes then? Obviously, I haven't kept up on the CR engines.

 

[V-Rod]

It makes me sick looking at this stuff. We as a nation are all sorts of screwed up.
We have roughly 7 million Semi Trucks, probably 90% of which are pre Emissions era so those 15L engines are spewing all sorts of crap in the atmosphere but oh no, we decide to go after the guys with the 2L engines because they produced slightly higher amounts of NOx... SHAKES HEAD!!!
Now these vehicles like you said already produced polution to be produced, now they will produce even more polution to be destroyed and who wins in the end? I guess a TDI owner because they get to go buy another VW or XX brand... IDK none of this makes sence to me.
Certainly scares me to think that my JSW will end up in a pile like this.

Everything you eat or purchase at one time was hauled in one of those 7 million trucks. So why be a little ***** about it? You NEED them!!
My 500 HP C15 doesn't smoke one bit.... Ever!!!
I can't say the same for my stock 06 TDI

 

[kjclow]

Why 2013? Were there major changes then? Obviously, I haven't kept up on the CR engines.

Just a wild ass guess but at 4-5 years old, the cars should have 60-75K miles. That's about right for many to consider a used car. The change in all the engines was in 2015 to the new one across the board. I am making the assumption that the vast majority of the 2015s will find their way back to the streets. Especially since there is a phase 1 fix and hopefully a phase 2 soo to follow.

 

[GolfGTD]

Here is an article i found that seems to mention SCRAP as option.
https://www.wired.com/2016/04/vws-bleak-options-dealing-500000-recalled-diesels/
"Option three: scrap the damn things. I wish I could tell you all the cars will be gathered together at once and crushed in a single junkyard, while “Worthless” from Brave Little Toaster plays on the loudspeaker. Alas, that’s not how it works. Taking your car in for recall is voluntary (-ish, depending on which state you live in), and the VW deal will likely give customers two years to make a decision on what they’ll do. Volkswagen will probably just send each vehicle to whatever auto recycler is nearest to where the customer returns it.
One of the country’s largest recycling yards is LKQ Northern California, in Redding. Josh Coza, a sales representative and former yard worker, explains that every recycler works a little differently, based on state laws and local economics. But in general, scrapyard workers will begin by draining the car’s fluids, pulling the tires, and cutting the exhaust. Say goodbye to the wiring harnesses, AC lines, and rubber hoses. And anything else that is broken, rusted, valueless, or might somehow fail and bring harm to some hapless auto owner somewhere down the line.
Everything of value gets sorted into two general categories: Parts in demand, and parts nobody wants whole, but contain valuable metals or electronics. The engines themselves may be done, but “the pure aluminum on engine blocks, we can get a butt load out of that,” says Coza. Catalytic converters get harvested for rare earth metals like platinum, which is worth way more butts per ton than aluminum.
Even if a part is worthless, with no salvageable components, the wreckers can still turn a buck. Many parts come with a core charge, which means the government will pay the auto recycler money just to get rid of it. Coring basically assures unscrapped cars don’t pile up on the sides of freeways. “If we get something that we don’t want, we throw a core tag on it and we have a gentleman named Sal who sorts all the unwanted parts into 25 or 26 different containers,” says Coza. Then the core parts get shipped off to a landfill for auto parts."

Once stripped, it’s crushing time for the frame. “Our crusher works 12-15 hours a day, and we have a semi truck that hauls all that metal off to a recycler where it gets melted down to become awesome aluminum again,” says Coza. LQK hasn’t received any recalled Volkswagens yet—the cars have been in regulatory limbo since the scandal was made public last September—but Coza expects to see some good business. Partly because of the yard’s size, but also because it is based in California, where more than 75,000 of the cheating diesels were sold.
Coza isn’t worried about getting inundated with faulty Volkswagens. For one, he thinks his yard could handle it. “These guys are killer, they dismantle 285 cars a week,” he says. And the recall is spread out enough both temporally and geographically that used parts markets probably won’t be overly distorted by a glut of supply.
But the recall is not mandatory everywhere. Yes, it was the EPA that caught VW cheating, but states are in charge of vehicle registrations, and each has its own emissions rules. Let’s say people in Alabama, Montana, Maine, and all the other states with relatively lax emissions standards decide they don’t want to trade in their diesel-huffing Volkswagens and Audis. And, because all these recalled-but-really-not cars have lost so much value, they’re suddenly one hell of a deal. “All these cars that got into these states won’t have to deal with emissions, unless the federal government puts a statement out there saying cars with the following VINs aren’t qualified to pass registration,” says Brauer.
The biggest problem, says Brauer, is that people love these cars. And why not? They are fuel efficient (if polluting) and fun to drive. Plus, this emissions problem doesn’t really hurt the car owner. “Not like it would if they were owners of Takata airbags that were throwing shrapnel at their faces,” says Brauer. “This is like a metaphor for the challenge of environmental problems. You can put together statistics for a problem, but if you can’t manifest in a tangible way, the person has no way of dealing with it or doing anything about it.”
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AUTO INDUSTRYSCANDALVOLKSWAGEN

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

Just a wild ass guess but at 4-5 years old, the cars should have 60-75K miles. That's about right for many to consider a used car. The change in all the engines was in 2015 to the new one across the board. I am making the assumption that the vast majority of the 2015s will find their way back to the streets. Especially since there is a phase 1 fix and hopefully a phase 2 soo to follow.

Interesting thought.

I thought both 1 and 2 parts of the "FIX" are in order

Hypothetically -- if one had a car that was one half fixed ~~ then there was no complete fix ~~ then what?

Drive it half fixed?

Not get paid the last 1/3 on the money?

Still not sure what I am going to do ~~ but if the "FIX" was fast to get BOTH parts done in a very short time frame ~~ That would be more insensitive to go with the fix.

--------------------------------
Side note on resale value according to KBB
My car has gone up a lot since Fall 2015
Full bore retail = $23,680-ish ---
--------------------------------

NADA not near as generous --

 

[kjclow]

Here is an article i found that seems to mention SCRAP as option.
https://www.wired.com/2016/04/vws-bleak-options-dealing-500000-recalled-diesels/

I would find the article much more credible if the author stopped referring to it as a "recall".

Interesting thought.

I thought both 1 and 2 parts of the "FIX" are in order

Hypothetically -- if one had a car that was one half fixed ~~ then there was no complete fix ~~ then what?

Drive it half fixed?

Not get paid the last 1/3 on the money?

Still not sure what I am going to do ~~ but if the "FIX" was fast to get BOTH parts done in a very short time frame ~~ That would be more insensitive to go with the fix.

I have not seen anything that give a definative solution for the part 2 of the gen 3 fix. I know there's some dates and some speculation as to what has to be changed but nothing concrete enough to say that the total fix is in place.

 

[2015vwgolfdiesel]

I have not seen anything that gives a definitive solution for the part 2 of the gen 3 fix. I know there's some dates and some speculation as to what has to be changed but nothing concrete enough to say that the total fix is in place.

?????????

Well then,

We have some (many) owners with a half "FIXED" car?

vw is a nut job X 100

But hard to even imagine we do not have a second half solution to the cars that have had the first half of the "FIX"

Thinking by now we have hundreds (if not thousands) of cars with the first half fix

 

[wxman]

Using the Golf as the example, manufacturing a new Golf TSI would produce 6,604,026 grams of GHG, 34,147 g of VOC, 24,644 g of CO, 7409 g of NOx, 1450 g of PM2.5, and 25,771 g of SOx, per ANL's GREET model (GREET2).

The NOx emissions would be offset in about 5,200 miles of driving (@1.5 g/mile for the TDI), but all other emissions would never be offset, and some would actually increase/diverge with miles driven.

For the eGolf, 6,861,414 g of GHG, 27,700 g of VOC, 26,683 g of CO, 9280 g of NOx, 1920 g of PM2.5, and 33,800 g of SOx would be produced in manufacturing.

The GHG emissions would be offset in about 40,000 miles, VOC in 1,600,000 miles, CO in 405,000 miles, and PM2.5 and SOx would never be offset assuming current U.S. electricity generation mix.

Damages to public health and the environment would amount to an additional $375/vehicle (TSI) and $970/vehicle (eGolf) per EPA damage factors and assuming 100,000 miles useful life left for the TDIs.

I used these data in comments submitted during the open public comment period last year, but they were apparently dismissed without response by EPA.

 

[GolfGTD]

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-stashed-hundreds-of-cheating-diesels-in-an-a-1791535662

 

[maybe368]

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-stashed-hundreds-of-cheating-diesels-in-an-a-1791535662

People should be that sad about starving and abused refugees. I can understand liking cars, but it is just a car and I like cars. But, I do think that the fact that they are not willy nilly crushing them should give people hope that they won't all be crushed...Mark

 

[flee]

My (not too original) takeaway from these vast lots of new 2015/older buybacks is
that there will be a decent selection of used TDI's when the fixes are worked out.