RIP: [warning: crushed car pics]

SkeeterMark

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These appear to all be MKV's....no MKVI's, no?

So what would that mean? I have no idea.
Maybe it's that old of a picture and there were no MK VI's yet.
Maybe only those older cars are getting crushed.
Maybe it's coincidence.
 

k1xv

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Even though I think the Mark V was a superior car to the Mark VI, it is older, and therefore has a lesser market value. And, as they have been around longer, there are many with six digit odometer readings. So in any line up of cars at the crusher, Mark V cars would be at the head of the line.
 

SkeeterMark

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Even though I think the Mark V was a superior car to the Mark VI, it is older, and therefore has a lesser market value. And, as they have been around longer, there are many with six digit odometer readings. So in any line up of cars at the crusher, Mark V cars would be at the head of the line.
Not really, when theoretically MK V's and MK VI's are being sold back to VW equally. In fact, there are more MK VI's than MK V's eligible for buyback, if I'm not mistaken.
 

GoFaster

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But the Mk5 cars will be older, generally have higher mileage, and because of those statistics, have a higher probability of something major and expensive wrong with them, and have lower resale value. When someone goes through all the vehicles they have in stock and starts making "do we fix it or do we squash it" decisions, they're more likely to go to the junk pile.
 

turbobrick240

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I also noticed that they all looked like mkV jettas. Could be high mileage, damaged, who knows. I bet any cars leaking fluids get a ticket to the crusher.
 

turbobrick240

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Not widely reported, but it happens. My guess is those cars had high mileage and possibly other issues.
 

CHawk

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When I'm not soaking up the vast wisdom of posters who frequent this forum, my job is to evaluate environmental impacts. From an environmental perspective, I have a huge problem with the EPA requirement that denied VW the ability to export unfixed vehicles. In a nutshell, if a buyback TDI can be used to replace a car that “pollutes” more, there will be a net benefit to the environment. I understand why that wasn’t going to happen in the U.S., but the buyback was an opportunity for some countries (perhaps with creative facilitation by NGOs) to put late-model, fuel-efficient, safe, relatively clean vehicles in the hands of people who wouldn’t normally be able to afford them. An arrangement might be part of a country’s conversion to ultra-low-sulfur diesel, reducing pollution of other diesel vehicles as well.

My concern is primarily about Gen 1 vehicles, for which a fix might not be feasible (i.e., cost of the fix, including vehicle evaluation, transportation, parts, labor, and preparation for resale is greater than the wholesale value of vehicle). Regardless of whether a fix is developed, many high-mileage or blemished Gen 1’s are going to the crusher. These photos may be evidence of that. The nightmare scenario is that most or all Gen 1’s go to the crusher. The manufacture of comparable vehicles to replace those removed from the road will require natural resources, including metals and fossil fuels, and consume energy that will generate greenhouse gases. I haven’t seen anything from EPA that shows whether they did a study to determine if their actions, particularly the export prohibition, were protective of the environment.
 

bmwM5power

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These appear to all be MKV's....no MKVI's, no?

So what would that mean? I have no idea.
Maybe it's that old of a picture and there were no MK VI's yet.
Maybe only those older cars are getting crushed.
Maybe it's coincidence.
theres plenty mk6s in that pic, probably more than mk5s
 

2015vwgolfdiesel

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When I'm not soaking up the vast wisdom of posters who frequent this forum, my job is to evaluate environmental impacts.

From an environmental perspective, I have a huge problem with the EPA requirement that denied VW the ability to export unfixed vehicles. In a nutshell, if a buyback TDI can be used to replace a car that “pollutes” more, there will be a net benefit to the environment. I understand why that wasn’t going to happen in the U.S., but the buyback was an opportunity for some countries (perhaps with creative facilitation by NGOs) to put late-model, fuel-efficient, safe, relatively clean vehicles in the hands of people who wouldn’t normally be able to afford them. An arrangement might be part of a country’s conversion to ultra-low-sulfur diesel, reducing pollution of other diesel vehicles as well.


My concern is primarily about Gen 1 vehicles, for which a fix might not be feasible (i.e., cost of the fix, including vehicle evaluation, transportation, parts, labor, and preparation for resale is greater than the wholesale value of vehicle). Regardless of whether a fix is developed, many high-mileage or blemished Gen 1’s are going to the crusher. These photos may be evidence of that.


The nightmare scenario is that most or all Gen 1’s go to the crusher. :eek:


The manufacture of comparable vehicles to replace those removed from the road will require natural resources, including metals and fossil fuels, and consume energy that will generate greenhouse gases.


I haven’t seen anything from EPA that shows whether they did a study to determine if their actions, particularly the export prohibition, were protective of the environment.

Interesting

May I ask who you work for?
 

wxman

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...The nightmare scenario is that most or all Gen 1’s go to the crusher. The manufacture of comparable vehicles to replace those removed from the road will require natural resources, including metals and fossil fuels, and consume energy that will generate greenhouse gases. I haven’t seen anything from EPA that shows whether they did a study to determine if their actions, particularly the export prohibition, were protective of the environment.
Fully agree.

Any TDI with less that about 140,000 miles will result in net excess emissions (damage to public health and the environment) by replacing it with a new comparable vehicle.
 

Dominic49

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When I'm not soaking up the vast wisdom of posters who frequent this forum, my job is to evaluate environmental impacts. From an environmental perspective, I have a huge problem with the EPA requirement that denied VW the ability to export unfixed vehicles. In a nutshell, if a buyback TDI can be used to replace a car that “pollutes” more, there will be a net benefit to the environment. I understand why that wasn’t going to happen in the U.S., but the buyback was an opportunity for some countries (perhaps with creative facilitation by NGOs) to put late-model, fuel-efficient, safe, relatively clean vehicles in the hands of people who wouldn’t normally be able to afford them. An arrangement might be part of a country’s conversion to ultra-low-sulfur diesel, reducing pollution of other diesel vehicles as well.

My concern is primarily about Gen 1 vehicles, for which a fix might not be feasible (i.e., cost of the fix, including vehicle evaluation, transportation, parts, labor, and preparation for resale is greater than the wholesale value of vehicle). Regardless of whether a fix is developed, many high-mileage or blemished Gen 1’s are going to the crusher. These photos may be evidence of that. The nightmare scenario is that most or all Gen 1’s go to the crusher. The manufacture of comparable vehicles to replace those removed from the road will require natural resources, including metals and fossil fuels, and consume energy that will generate greenhouse gases. I haven’t seen anything from EPA that shows whether they did a study to determine if their actions, particularly the export prohibition, were protective of the environment.

Would the vehicles be given as-is or would there have to be a warranty provided? I saw many vehicles in the buy back lot with bald tires cracked windshields etc. Is there a process in place to get all of these vehicles Inspected and deemed road worthy rather than pushing off the problem on some other group?

Where would the liability fall?
 

CHawk

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The Great Pacific Northwest
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Would the vehicles be given as-is or would there have to be a warranty provided? I saw many vehicles in the buy back lot with bald tires cracked windshields etc. Is there a process in place to get all of these vehicles Inspected and deemed road worthy rather than pushing off the problem on some other group?

Where would the liability fall?
I suspect that emission-repaired vehicles would be sold as-is wholesale to a 3rd party. VW will warrantee certain components as specified in the settlement, with all other aspects of saleability handled by the 3rd party. But this is where the whole Gen 1 fix thing gets iffy: what's the profit margin? The more you think about the process of getting a car currently sitting in one the collection centers repaired and into the hands of a new owner, VW's only going to see profit on ultra-low mileage, mint-condition vehicles. I also don't think it's in VW's or a 3rd party's interest to flood the market. If VW only sold 500,000 of these in the U.S. over a 6-year period with a full-blown marketing effort and without the Dieselgate specter hanging over them, what would happen to the price if you tried to sell, say, 300,000 used TDIs over a 1- or 2-year period? Would cheap 2014 Golf TDIs cannibalize sales of new Golf TSIs?
 

GoFaster

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theres plenty mk6s in that pic, probably more than mk5s
Mk6 Golf started in 2010 and the Mk5 Golf/Jetta wagon used the Mk6 front end styling starting in 2010. But I don't see any Mk6 Jettas in that picture. It's conceivable that everything in that picture is 2009-2010 (but no way to prove it since the Mk6 Golf kept that front end styling through to the end).

At what point did VW switch over from the early one-piece DPF+LNT to the later two-piece design? That could be another factor in the squish vs fix decision.
 

meerschm

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Because today is 30 business days since since they submitted the 1st Gen Fix for approval, and instead of finding news and details about the fix today; we got pix of crushed TDI's..

Just give it a few more days then you can have your hopes and dreams crushed along with these cars..

but im a pessimist.. best to plan for the worst.

where exactly did you see that VW submitted a gen 1 fix?
 

nayr

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https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/en/2-0-models/

FAQ -> Emissions Modifications -> When will the emissions modification be available for my vehicle?

gives this graphic, which indicates the deadline was January 27th 2017


In the court document it says EPA will have 45 days to approve/reject, I was wrong about 30 days.. guess they still have another 2-3 weeks give/take if those are business days.. would put it around March 31st at the latest.. if its just days and not business days, then 45 days was yesterday.

The Environmental Protection Agency (“EPA”) and the California Air Resources Board (“CARB”) will need to approve any emissions modification within 45 days of Volkswagen’s Final Submittal Deadline below
Given how it dont specifically state business days, and says within.. the further away we get from Jan 27th the worse it's starting to look that the fix will not be approved this time around.. and I believe this was there last chance at getting it right.
 
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newyorktdi

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When I'm not soaking up the vast wisdom of posters who frequent this forum, my job is to evaluate environmental impacts. From an environmental perspective, I have a huge problem with the EPA requirement that denied VW the ability to export unfixed vehicles. In a nutshell, if a buyback TDI can be used to replace a car that “pollutes” more, there will be a net benefit to the environment. I understand why that wasn’t going to happen in the U.S., but the buyback was an opportunity for some countries (perhaps with creative facilitation by NGOs) to put late-model, fuel-efficient, safe, relatively clean vehicles in the hands of people who wouldn’t normally be able to afford them. An arrangement might be part of a country’s conversion to ultra-low-sulfur diesel, reducing pollution of other diesel vehicles as well.

My concern is primarily about Gen 1 vehicles, for which a fix might not be feasible (i.e., cost of the fix, including vehicle evaluation, transportation, parts, labor, and preparation for resale is greater than the wholesale value of vehicle). Regardless of whether a fix is developed, many high-mileage or blemished Gen 1’s are going to the crusher. These photos may be evidence of that. The nightmare scenario is that most or all Gen 1’s go to the crusher. The manufacture of comparable vehicles to replace those removed from the road will require natural resources, including metals and fossil fuels, and consume energy that will generate greenhouse gases. I haven’t seen anything from EPA that shows whether they did a study to determine if their actions, particularly the export prohibition, were protective of the environment.

This would require VW to take cars that were bought back and make sure all the emissions equipment was present and make sure all the ECU's software doesn't have aftermarket stuff on it. TDIClub folks are quite innocent and they don't modify their vehicles in such a matter so I guess that's not really much of an issue for folks from here.

Not to mention some folks stripped their cars before bringing it for their buyback. Also no one from TDIClub!

But then you're going to bring USED TDI's to sell somewhere with lower emissions standards? Never would happen. The liability alone would render that plan unpractical.

These pictures bring joyful tears to my eyes! Keep 'em coming! So many people are on this moral high horse yet when their DPF cracks... it's a DPF delete! Why crush these cars? Because it sends a message that other manufacturers cannot ignore environmental, consumer and fraud statutes. You can't expect VW to pull this level of egregious automotive fraud and get off with a slap on the wrist.
 
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NYC-TDI

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This would require VW to take cars that were bought back and make sure all the emissions equipment was present and make sure all the ECU's software doesn't have aftermarket stuff on it. TDIClub folks are quite innocent and they don't modify their vehicles in such a matter so I guess that's not really much of an issue for folks from here.

Not to mention some folks stripped their cars before bringing it for their buyback. Also no one from TDIClub!

But then you're going to bring USED TDI's to sell somewhere with lower emissions standards? Never would happen. The liability alone would render that plan unpractical.

These pictures bring joyful tears to my eyes! Keep 'em coming! So many people are on this moral high horse yet when their DPF cracks... it's a DPF delete! Why crush these cars? Because it sends a message that other manufacturers cannot ignore environmental, consumer and fraud statutes. You can't expect VW to pull this level of egregious automotive fraud and get off with a slap on the wrist.
Hear! Hear! The crusher is where most of these cars belong. I would be amazed if even 10% of the buybacks are ever fixed and resold.
 

GoFaster

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At this point it's not about environmental impact. It's about punishing VW HARD for breaking the law intentionally and then trying to cover it up. Deny, deny, deny.

There are still a couple of weeks until 45 business days after VW's 27 Jan deadline for submitting the Gen 1 fix, if everyone stayed on schedule. That works out to end of March or maybe first week of April if we account for holidays. If both parties agreed in court to a delay from that schedule, that's something we won't know. If the government drags its feet with the approval there's little anyone can do about it.

If the fix gets approved VW is sure to publicize it. If the fix is not approved they're likely to be quiet except in the form of letters to people who submitted docs for the "fix" that there is no "fix". IIRC there is another absolute drop-dead deadline for notifying people who submitted for "fix" that there is no "fix" and that's still a year-ish away.

A few isolated pictures of flattened cars from (apparently) one source isn't indicative of VW throwing in the towel on all of them (yet). A steady stream of these cars being loaded onto trucks and being transported to shredding and reprocessing facilitites ... might be, and I'm thinking that would be noticed. That's not something VW would want to publicize ... but the scale of such an operation would make it hard to hide.
 

sriracha

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Mk6 Golf started in 2010 and the Mk5 Golf/Jetta wagon used the Mk6 front end styling starting in 2010. But I don't see any Mk6 Jettas in that picture. It's conceivable that everything in that picture is 2009-2010 (but no way to prove it since the Mk6 Golf kept that front end styling through to the end).

The MK6 Golf TDI has fog lights standard. That's how you can tell a MK6 Golf TDI front end... if it has fog lights.

Fog lights were an upgrade option for the Jetta Wagon, so sometimes it's a JSW.

but no fog lights means it's not a MK6 Golf TDI.
 

sriracha

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...also, the Jetta Sport Wagon has the chrome-striped Highline grill. The MK6 Golf does not, it just has the black grill. I installed the lower Highline grill on my Golf and it looks pretty sweet, btw. It really pops the lower air scoop.
 

flargabarg

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Recycled steel is also less energy intensive than newly mined steel. So there may be a little tweak there on the energy balance of this process.
 

El Dobro

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I hope my '09 was in there. If there ever was a car that deserved to be crushed, it was that POS.
 

CHenry

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Parting the better examples of the repurchased cars may make sense. The rules on re-selling don't restrict salvage parts (OK, maybe engines) but there are a lot of high-value undamaged front-clips for Golfs, lighting units, DSG units, seats, dash instrumentation, radio-nav units and other parts that once salvaged could be used in the third-party replacement parts market, most of which is outside this country.

Destroying the high-mileage and damaged vehicles makes sense from VW's point of view. It isn't worth the time of a salvage crew going through the cars, storing them costs money, resale is not a profitable venture. Reducing them and removing then to a shredding facility and then to a strip mill is likely their most cost-effective option, all in the hands of contractors.
 

Armby

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Engine parts are fair game for salvage except the ecu and some specific emissions parts specified the settlement
 
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