Revised B4 MFA conversion article

G60ING

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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
So this would have a Celsius temp, 18 Gal fuel, MPH speedo?? Miles ODO???

Being in Canada I would like metric.
feel free to look up the metric one speedo in www.vagcat.com I think its under the electric section.
 

Windex

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So this would have a Celsius temp, 18 Gal fuel, MPH speedo?? Miles ODO???
Being in Canada I would like metric.
Me too: :D



Derek can get it done, as long as the donor clusters are full metric (German, Canadian)
 

Bravo19r

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Y2K4 Jetta Variant TDI (RIP), 1996 B4V 1.9 TDI (Re-Homed), 2010 Jetta TDI Highline
B4 MFA Conversion

Will a FULL DIGITAL cluster from a B3 Passat work for this? I found a full digital cluster from a 4 cyl gasser. The only problem with it is that it is in a automatic.
How hard is it to convert a B4 Automatic VR6 cluster to work?
Can I swap parts from a B4 TDI NON MFA into a B4 NON TDI AUTO MFA?
Will the MFA and Signal stocks from a B3 work in a B4?
 

RIP TDI

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Will a FULL DIGITAL cluster from a B3 Passat work for this? I found a full digital cluster from a 4 cyl gasser. The only problem with it is that it is in a automatic.
Yes, but not as easily or successfully. The 3 main issues are: a graphic mismatch between B3 & B4 gauge faces, (2) mis-identified/incorrect LED labels on the front surround and (3) a 2nd LED and resistor pair must be added.
How hard is it to convert a B4 Automatic VR6 cluster to work?
No different than using a manual cluster.
Can I swap parts from a B4 TDI NON MFA into a B4 NON TDI AUTO MFA?
Yes.
Will the MFA and Signal stocks from a B3 work in a B4?
Except for GPL and MIL, yes (on B4 clusters, GPL works).
 

Bravo19r

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Ok, I guess I am getting myself confused here.

I found a 1992/1993 B3 Sedan with a 4 cyl gas engine with MFA. It is a Automatic (auto selector in tach). It has a DIGITAL ODO and MFA in the fuel/temp. It looks like the B4 VR MFA cluster. There is no analog odo or trip.

So I guess my question should be:
1) Can I use this cluster in a B4?
2) Can I swap the tach from the B4 NON MFA Manual Cluster into the B3 Auto Tach location?
3) Add 2 LED's (1 for glow plugs and 1 for MIL)?
4) Change the graphics for the tach to represent the lower rpm range?
5) Signal and MFA stocks interchangeable for the B3 and B4?
6) Change surround to match the B4 LED's?
 

RIP TDI

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Ok, I guess I am getting myself confused here.

I found a 1992/1993 B3 Sedan with a 4 cyl gas engine with MFA. It is a Automatic (auto selector in tach). It has a DIGITAL ODO and MFA in the fuel/temp. It looks like the B4 VR MFA cluster. There is no analog odo or trip.

So I guess my question should be:
1) Can I use this cluster in a B4?
2) Can I swap the tach from the B4 NON MFA Manual Cluster into the B3 Auto Tach location?
3) Add 2 LED's (1 for glow plugs and 1 for MIL)?
4) Change the graphics for the tach to represent the lower rpm range?
5) Signal and MFA stocks interchangeable for the B3 and B4?
6) Change surround to match the B4 LED's?
If you're not concerened about maintaining 100% correct OE TDI graphics, this could be an easy conversion.

The MFA and tach should function perfectly and read correctly without modification and the only non- or incorrect-funcitioning item would be the MIL LED and, possibly, GPL LED.

SURROUND ISSUES
The B4 front surround trim can't be used with the B3 cluster because it has a complelety different contour at the perimeter where it mates to the cluster housing as well as a completely different attachment method. So, you're pretty much stuck with the B3 surround which, if similar to the B4 VR6 cluster in this regard, will cause the LED labeled MIL to be lighted by the ECU's GPL signal. I can't confirm that this will be the case because I haven't tried it (I do have a '94 B3 VR6 MFA cluster, but have never plugged it into my B4). If this is the case, you would have a mislabled GPL; not the end of the world and correctable by painting over the label if its bothersome.

By the same token, and like the B4-VR6-cluster-in-a-TDI scenario,the ECU's MIL signal likely won't have an LED to light (though this is unconfirmed with my B3 cluster). If that is the case, the B3 cluster has an unused and unlabeled LED on the left hand LED bank that should be able to be activated with some circuit analysis and subsequent modification. You cannot easily add an additional, 5th LED on either bank as you can with the B4 cluster.

TACH FACE
As previously stated, the B3 4-cyl. tach will function and read accurately without any modification. You will have too high a redline, of course, and if that bothers you, you can graphically modify it with a printed graphic or paint. The option to use the B4 TDI tach face with the B3 cluster is more problematic than it is when used with a B4 VR6 cluster. The B3 tach face locates and attaches to the tach differently than it does in a B4. In fact, internally, B3 and B4 clusters are constructed very, very differently (even though appear very similar externally). This isn't a big deal, though, its just a matter of drilling mounting holes in the tach face.

A bigger issue is that, because the B3 4-cyl. GL tach face has different tick mark spacing than the B4 TDI tach face, you would have to program a different value into the cluster controller chip's "program version" value to get an accurate tach reading and I don't think there was a B3 TDI or TD model from which you could retrieve the correct program version value, and I doubt the B4 TDI program version value would work because the B4 cluster is a completely different design than the B3. Whether or not you could obtain the correct program value for a B4 TDI tach face in a B3 GL cluster, it requires chip editing to change it. The guy who may be able to answer this question is member ChubsAuto, who has done many B4 MFA conversions in the traditional manner (i.e. B4 VR6 to B4 TDI) by reprogramming the chip, with great success and to much acclaim from club members.

If it proved impossible to do this way, the B4 TDI tach face could always be made to display accurately in the B3 GL cluster by splicing a pulse frequency adaptor into the tach signal as was done in MFA conversions before ChubsAuto began reprograming the controller chip to achieve display accuracy.


A disclaimer: I am not intimately familiar with all variations of B3 clusters and it's possible that a '92/'93 4-cyl cluster may differ from the '94 VR6 B3 cluster that I have (and haven't used) and the MIL vs. GPL issues might be different. Surround issues shouldn't be any different.

I hope, since you're taking the trouble to do this, that the cluster you found is a Canadian model which, I assume, your B4 is.

BTW, I haven't answered your previous questions, above, because those are not the questions to ask. The issues listed are the ones you need to focus on to make this work.
 
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Bravo19r

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Ok, I think that I have all the parts needed. I have a couple of questions.

1) Is this wiring in the 1996 B4V Canadian Model? Or do I have to add it? (brown/white and white/red wires that originate from pins G1/2 and G2/2)


2) Can this cluster P/N 3A0 919 880H be converted to have a Metric ODO with a US MFA?


3) Oil sensor? is it all ready in the Canadian Version of the B4V? Do I have to add any wiring?

Here is what I have for parts
 
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RIP TDI

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Ok, I think that I have all the parts needed. I have a couple of questions.

1) Is this wiring in the 1996 B4V Canadian Model? Or do I have to add it? (brown/white and white/red wires that originate from pins G1/2 and G2/2)
That looks correct for the air temp sensor.

2) Can this cluster P/N 3A0 919 880H be converted to have a Metric ODO with a US MFA?
Unfortunately, no. The country code can be reprogrammed to US units but you cannot split out units between different cluster components.

3) Oil sensor? is it all ready in the Canadian Version of the B4V? Do I have to add any wiring?
The oil sender should not be present. You shouldn't have to add any wiring. Just look for the unconnected single black wire with female connector near the oil filter/cooler adaptor. Install the sender in the unused, plugged port
 

Bravo19r

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Quote: Originally Posted by Bravo19r
Ok, I think that I have all the parts needed. I have a couple of questions.

1) Is this wiring in the 1996 B4V Canadian Model? Or do I have to add it? (brown/white and white/red wires that originate from pins G1/2 and G2/2)

That looks correct for the air temp sensor.


My question was do I have to add these wires to the blocks OR are they already there?
 

RIP TDI

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They should already be there but they may not be attached to a harness connector. Sometimes they are just 2 bare-ended wires.
 

Bravo19r

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They should already be there but they may not be attached to a harness connector. Sometimes they are just 2 bare-ended wires.
So they are terminated in the G* blocks, but may or may not have a connector (black 2 wire) attached?

Sorry for being very repetitive on this. The donor car was a ***** to get any this wire sorted out. It was a rats nest and I am assuming mine is the same. I want to make it a ONE shot deal when I get this wiring put in.
 
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Bravo19r

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Has any one did the MFA mod/upgrade to a MKIII golf. i have a friend that did a 1Z tdi swap (complete) and i was wondering if he can do a mfa as well. The golf VR6 has a mfa setup similar to the passat.

Brian
 

RIP TDI

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The A3 conversion is very similar to the B4 but A3s are missing some additional wires & harness connector pins that must be added.



Missing A3 cluster & relay panel connector pins & wires between cluster and relay panel:
  • Cluster pin 6 - MFA controller switch - goes to pin 8 of the U2 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 15 - MFA controller switch - goes to pin 4 of the U2 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 17 - oil temp. sensor - goes to pin 1 of the U1 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 19 - outside air temp. sensor - goes to pin 2 of the U1 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 1 - outside air temp. sensor - goes to pin 7 of the U1 connector on relay panel.
Missing cluster and ECM connector pins & wire between cluster and ECM:
  • Cluster pin 26 - Fuel consumption signal - which connects to ECM pin 9. This wire goes directly from cluster to ECM without passing through the relay panel.
Note that the above list does NOT include the missing 4-wire harness that runs between the MFA controller switch and relay panel, true also for B4s.

There is an issue of a change in warning light circuitry configuration in, IIRC, '96, so a '96 or later MY VR6 cluster should be used.

Contact TDIClub member ChubsAuto or VWVortex member A3clusters to have your cluster reprogrammed to correct the tach reading (rather than the pulse frequency adaptor method described in post #1) and to reset odometer mileage to your current value.
 

clyde

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confluence, Snake/Clearwater
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1998 Jetta, 1959 DeSoto with leopard-skin seat covers
Adding MFA to 98 Jetta TDI?

Thanks for your guidance in adding an MFA to a TDI cluster.

I'd like to add a MFA to a 1998 Jetta TDI, and it could be done by using a cluster from a Jetta VR6 and adding wires and connections as you describe below.

Good.

But if I understand it correctly, the result would be a VR6 instrument cluster—with a 160 mph speedo and 6- or 7k rpm tachometer—in a TDI car.

Is it possible to add just the MFA to the TDI cluster so that the TDI speedo, or at least the TDI tach, could be retained?

Many thanks!

Clyde



The A3 conversion is very similar to the B4 but A3s are missing some additional wires & harness connector pins that must be added.



Missing A3 cluster & relay panel connector pins & wires between cluster and relay panel:
  • Cluster pin 6 - MFA controller switch - goes to pin 8 of the U2 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 15 - MFA controller switch - goes to pin 4 of the U2 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 17 - oil temp. sensor - goes to pin 1 of the U1 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 19 - outside air temp. sensor - goes to pin 2 of the U1 connector on relay panel.
  • Cluster pin 1 - outside air temp. sensor - goes to pin 7 of the U1 connector on relay panel.
Missing cluster and ECM connector pins & wire between cluster and ECM:
  • Cluster pin 26 - Fuel consumption signal - which connects to ECM pin 9. This wire goes directly from cluster to ECM without passing through the relay panel.
Note that the above list does NOT include the missing 4-wire harness that runs between the MFA controller switch and relay panel, true also for B4s.

There is an issue of a change in warning light circuitry configuration in, IIRC, '96, so a '96 or later MY VR6 cluster should be used.

Contact TDIClub member ChubsAuto or VWVortex member A3clusters to have your cluster reprogrammed to correct the tach reading (rather than the pulse frequency adaptor method described in post #1) and to reset odometer mileage to your current value.
 

RIP TDI

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No, you can't, but its not necessary.

As with the B4 cluster, you simply install your original TDI tach face plate on the VR6 cluster and have the cluster cylinder coding changed to match. You may be able to successfully transplant the entire TDI speedo module into the VR6 cluster and have it read correctly by having the impulse distance number recoded to match that of the TDI cluster, but it would be easier to just live with the VR6 speedo.

You may have to use an earlier GTI/GLI cluster that uses black instrumentation facing. I'm not sure what year they transitioned to silver facing or if silver and black were both available throughout the model/year range.
 

clyde

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OK, that's a good idea. BUT A3cluster says he can't change the "impulse distance number." The VR6 speedo would not read correctly anyway with pulses from a four cylinder, would it?
Seems that getting the tach to read right is possible, the speedo/odometer is mucho difficult.
It would be much smoother & more elegant to have a VR6 cluster work correctly with a TDI—another instrument hanging off an ashtray, or such, is not what l'd like.
I appreciate your advice.
No, you can't, but its not necessary.
As with the B4 cluster, you simply install your original TDI tach face plate on the VR6 cluster and have the cluster cylinder coding changed to match. You may be able to successfully transplant the entire TDI speedo module into the VR6 cluster and have it read correctly by having the impulse distance number recoded to match that of the TDI cluster, but it would be easier to just live with the VR6 speedo.
You may have to use an earlier GTI/GLI cluster that uses black instrumentation facing. I'm not sure what year they transitioned to silver facing or if silver and black were both available throughout the model/year range.
 

RIP TDI

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BUT A3cluster says he can't change the "impulse distance number." The VR6 speedo would not read correctly anyway with pulses from a four cylinder, would it?
Speedo uses the VSS signal only, 4 or 6-cyl. is irrelevant.

I'm suprised that A3cluster can change (by editing the chip) the cylinder number value (to correct the tach reading), but not the impulse distance number (to correct the speedo). But if that's the case, the speedo can be corrected the old school way by using a signal interface in the VSS line. It works well and offers adjustability to calibrate the speedo in the future if you change to different size tires.

I believe Derek (ChubsAuto) can change the impulse distance number in B4 clusters. I don't know how much experience he's had with A3 clusters...His shop is currently offline due to a fire. I don't know how responsive he may be at the moment to an inquiry on this issue.
 

tacameron

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96 B4 Passat Wagon TDI 291k
Am I Ready

So.. I just sent off the B496GLX cluster Derek is handling it from what he told me he will add the port on the back for the glow plug wire so its plug and play add the yellow bulb, resistors and all, swap for a tdi tach face and bezel also he will edit the chips for odometer and make everything work as STOCK.

My question I just added all the wiring instead of doing it the way this article insinuates I decided to pull all the wiring hole and not fabricate anything
I added the 4 pin harness to the MFA stalk to the fuse box then I added The air temp 2 pin harness routed it just like it came out off the other car. I also added the MFA side of the stalk
I currently don't have the oil temp sensor but I found the wire and will be getting the sensor tommorow.

So am I ready for the MFA cluster to be installed or did I miss something?
Also the car these goodies came out of was smashed in the front at bit so the air temp sensor was hanging can I get a pic and or details on hows this was mounted currently it is hanging below the passenger light the grommet is snapped in
 

rcowan

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1997 B4 Wagon TDI, 1999 Eurovan Weekender TDI
Who does the work on the clusters now? I've read that Derek had the shop fire (sucks) and I can't get a PM reply from him so I assume he's still not doing these much. Anyone else that you guys would recommend? Thanks!
 

RIP TDI

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Who does the work on the clusters now? I've read that Derek had the shop fire (sucks) and I can't get a PM reply from him so I assume he's still not doing these much. Anyone else that you guys would recommend? Thanks!
Did you try phoning him?
 

G60ING

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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Derek is so good that its worth whatever you have to do to get him to do the work. I sent him mine and the experience was great. When i installed it I pushed the needles on too far and in 9 months stripped the gears in the stepper motors and he took care of me a 2nd time. Both experiences made me feel that he is the B4 MFA guy to go to. Maybe I should send him a 2nd cluster for years down the road. Although the mileage would be wrong unless I can find somebody to reprogram it.
 

G60ING

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No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
Yes he can but I want to get a backup cluster in-case Derek falls off the face of the TDI world. I love my MFA cluster and these things are prone to have a voltage regulator issue. I'd rather have a back up TDI/MFA cluster with incorrect mileage than to install a TDI cluster without the MFA and incorrect mileage.
 

vwsyncro

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Feb 4, 2011
Location
Lancaster, UK
TDI
T3 Single-Cab Pickup
Hi all, I'm new to this board, but been messing about with VW diesels for several years. Last year I installed an AFN into my T3 (Vanagon) Syncro single-cab pickup. Build thread is here http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/afn-tdi-install_topic72735.html.

Anyway, I want to fit a Passat 35i (aka 3A, aka B4) dash panel insert into the pickup. The other day I got an original Miles/Imperial gallons TDI MFA cluster (3A0 919 930M) from Ebay UK, which is working fine. However I want to change the odometer reading and distance impulse number to match my pickup.

I know this will involve removing and re-programming the EEprom. I've done this type of work before, when I was adding EEprom sockets to MSA15 ECUs, and de-immo'ing them.

I also had a spare non-MFA TDI cluster (3A0 919 910 E), which I decided to use for testing. I got as far as taking off the EEprom (a 93S56) but I found I couldn't read anything off it ! So I've fallen at the first hurdle.. Extensive Googling has failed to turn up any definitive information on what I want to do. Anecdotally, the 93S56 is tricky to use anyway, eg. cannot be successfuly re-programmed, and sometime erases itself ! I've resigned myself to trying to find a 'good' EEprom image dump from somewhere and writing that to a fresh 93c56.

I've PM'ed Derek at Chubs Auto to see if he's prepared to help, but he's not logged in recently so I'm hoping I can find someone else to help me.

Any pointers to good information, EEprom image dumps, or any other encouragement would be gratefully received !

Andy McClements
Lancaster
GB

PS. My tacho details from the diag mode are (for both MFA and non-MFA versions):

Distance impulse no. 6063
Country code 3
Speedo/tach ID no. 31455
Cyl. no. 4
Program version 051
 
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RIP TDI

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Not exactly a local phone call for you, but Derek's phone number is 217-824-3954
 

Bravo19r

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Here is what I have been working on for my MFA cluster. It is a back lit set up. Mine is going to be the MKIV colours. But you can have a few different colour options available. I am aware that the pic shows a small window were the MFA is, but it will be the large window. I will have a pic of the finished product with in the next six weeks.

If you want some more info on this, email b4vpassat at gmail dot com or text +one77832two44five9 or BBM 2809E39F
 
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