Req'd fix for Gen 2

[r11]

3.3 Additional Requirements for Generation 2 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicles: In addition to the requirements of Paragraph 3.1, each Proposed Emissions Modification for a Generation 2 2.0 Liter Subject Vehicle must also:

3.3.1 Require that the SCR system is capable of detecting the presence of
mostly to entirely water (less than 1% DEF) in the DEF tank and initiating Inducements based on such detection. Settling Defendants must describe all Inducement strategies and such Inducement strategies must be consistent with the SCR Guidelines and the original certification applications submitted by Settling Defendants.

+ ODB compliance for automatic and manual transmission vehicles, threshold monitors must detect a malfunction before NMOG + NOx emissions exceed 0.240 g/mile and before PM emissions exceed 0.0175 g/mile.

Compliant emissions: ≤ 0.240 g/mile NMOG + NOx and ≤ 0.0175 g/mile PM

 

[fredthe]

Yep, no water allowed in the urea. Interesting that some detector was presumed to exist, but it really isn't there.

 

[r11]

are ppl really abusing the system by diluting w/ water ? Never thought that'd be a serious problem. Almost seems like 3.3.1 is unnecessary requirement, as they can infer something aint right based on NOX sensor readings - if NOX shoots up, something aint right, go into limp mode.

List of substances that SCR can be abused with is endless: human piss, sprite, window-washer & so on & so forth Cant have a sensor for all of them

 

[sierra3]

I did a bit of research on this when I read it, and there is in fact a sensor that uses sound to detect DEF vs 'other', advertised as tamper resistent and actually sits inline between the DEF tank and the injection system. DEF is monitored as it flowed.
Without getting into specifics, it would seem that this could be defeated at a greater cost than a lifetime of DEF would cost by creating a small DEF ecosystem that continually flows DEF through this unit, and then plumbing the DEF directly to the injectors.

Buy why?

 

[JSWTDI09]

Yep, no water allowed in the urea.

If I recall correctly, DEF is (by definition) 85% water. It is only 15% Urea. The sensor is just to ensure that there is enough urea mixed in with the water for it to function properly. They don't want people to just refill their DEF tank with only water.

Have Fun!

Don

 

[fredthe]

I know it's mostly water.... I should have said no replacing DEF with Water

 

[Max Period]

http://www.discoverdef.ca/def-overview/

DEF/AdBlue is 32.5% urea, 67.5% de-ionized water. ISO 22241 standard

 

[compu_85]

As I understood it the car checks this now by seeing if injecting urea reduces emissions as it expects, not by testing the fluid itself (I could be mistaken).

So this makes it seem like the fix will be mostly software on our cars. IMHO that's good news.

-J

 

[aja8888]

As I understood it the car checks this now by seeing if injecting urea reduces emissions as it expects, not by testing the fluid itself (I could be mistaken).

So this makes it seem like the fix will be mostly software on our cars. IMHO that's good news.

-J

I can't believe this is the only fix solution for gen 2 cars. There must be more to do than just try to ensure that DEF meets the ISO standard.

 

[dropnosky]

I can't believe this is the only fix solution for gen 2 cars. There must be more to do than just try to ensure that DEF meets the ISO standard.

It does seem like nearly nothing. Just begs the question of why they heck didnt they just make it compliant in the first place.

 

[Rico567]

It does seem like nearly nothing. Just begs the question of why they heck didnt they just make it compliant in the first place.

If I recall correctly, though, isn't part of this deal a reduction in the emissions requirements, making it easier to "fix" these cars?

 

[compu_85]

It does seem like nearly nothing. Just begs the question of why they heck didnt they just make it compliant in the first place.

To be honest, it makes me more upset that less is required to do the fix. Like you said... if this is just a simple software setting VW implemented so the DEF tank goes 15000 miles instead of 7000 it was a terrible choice and as we can see the fallout on it is tremendous

-J

 

[r11]

It does seem like nearly nothing. Just begs the question of why they heck didnt they just make it compliant in the first place.

It can not be made compliant with T2B5 NOx requirements - and those are ambiguous to begin with when applied to real-world driving.

It can be made compliant with greatly reduced/more realistic #s as identified in the settlement, without requiring any HW changes, it seems. Dunno why and how they got the urea quality sensor into the mix, as opposed to requiring addition of post-cat NOx sensor into GenIII

 

[r11]

Refresher on EA189
http://www.natef.org/natef/media/natefmedia/vw files/2-0-tdi-ssp.pdf

Page 67 (as marked in the PDF) talks about 2 lambda sensors

 

[RebelTDI]

Does anyone know the difference in the levels of NOx emission in a 2010 Jetta TDI versus a 2015?

 

[LogicBomb]

"In addition to the requirements of Paragraph 3.1"

I'll have to look up what 3.1 says xD

 

[BCPassat]

Any news on a Gen 2 fix?

Has anyone heard any reliable information about a fix for Gen 2s?

TIA

 

[DanB36]

No. No.

 

[BleachedBora]

Yes. Don't ask me where I got it.

"How many parts are involved with the TDI remedy?
Gen 1 vehicles will require parts, Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase I are software only. In an effort to simplify ordering, we will be provide "kits" vs. individual part numbers for vehicles requiring hardware."

 

[BCPassat]

Yes. Don't ask me where I got it.

"How many parts are involved with the TDI remedy?
Gen 1 vehicles will require parts, Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase I are software only. In an effort to simplify ordering, we will be provide "kits" vs. individual part numbers for vehicles requiring hardware."

Excellent news. Thank you.

 

[tdiDreaming]

Any guess on the timing of said fixes for the Gen 2's based on your source?

Yes. Don't ask me where I got it.

"How many parts are involved with the TDI remedy?
Gen 1 vehicles will require parts, Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase I are software only. In an effort to simplify ordering, we will be provide "kits" vs. individual part numbers for vehicles requiring hardware."

 

[BleachedBora]

See this thread for more information.

The only info about time is that the dealer sets the time when it will be modified.
It appears that dealers now have the capability to make an appointment for an AEM, by setting it up with a lead time; however since the parts have not been made available yet that's a moot point.

 

[Rick_Brown]

Impact of Emission Repairs on 2014 Passat TDI?

Maybe I am in the wrong thread but I think my 2014 Passat TDI is a Gen 2? These are pretty old posts and I was expecting lots of activity given VW now has emission repairs out on what I think is the Gen 2 cars. I received letters from VW in the past week saying emission repairs are now available. My questions:

1) Has anyone had the repairs made?
2) The letter talks about increased mid range noise (could be an issue), changes to torque mostly when cold (may be an issue), less than 1 MPG drop in fuel economy (promising), increased DEF consumption (not a big deal as I fill my own DEF). Does anyone have any experiences on the impact of the emissions repair?
3) If an owner gets the car repaired and is unhappy with the noise, torque, fuel or DEF consumption are they stuck with the car? It seems after repairing the car if its performance is unsatisfactory to the owner VW should buy it back.

Let me know if there is another thread I should have posted to.

 

[surfstar]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=478476
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477639

 

[Rick_Brown]

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=478476
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477639

Thanks.