Report: Honda to abandon clean diesel development, focus on hybrids

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
I believe they realized that if they built diesel cars as well as their gassers, their customers would die before they came back in for service or a new car...
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
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Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
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None
*Rolls eyes at comments* I love how people harp on diesel ultrafine and nanoparticulate emissions without worrying about the same emissions from gas engines.
 

nortones2

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2000
Location
High Peak, UK
TDI
Formerly Passat 1.9 110hp
CEO Honda has today announced that a new smaller diesel is in development, and will be marketed in Europe in 2012. No further details.
 

procupine14

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Location
Kansas City, MO
TDI
2003 Beetle 5sp
So does this mean that there will be a diesel motor that runs to 800,000 miles for people who maintain their car just enought to put fuel in the tank and change the oil when they remember? I agree that if Honda makes a diesel engine comparable to their gassers there will be a high chance that most of those engines won't see a wrench for very long intervals.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Defacto that means VW will "own" the US TDI market for years to come. All they really have to do is rise from the cellar on the reliability ratings. If they don't want to really do that, then improve the dealership maintenance networks. They already make very durable machines. Dominance is VW's to lose.
 
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ruking

Top Post Dawg
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Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
*Rolls eyes at comments* I love how people harp on diesel ultrafine and nanoparticulate emissions without worrying about the same emissions from gas engines.
For sure that is an issue seldom discussed. Most (gasser) folks who follow the topic (D2 folks also) already know that ULSD is the 15 ppm sulfur standard, nominally delivered at the pumps @ 5-7 ppm sulfur. What almost NEVER gets discussed and is not even known by too many (Prius) folks is that RUG (to PUG) is delivered @ the pumps @ 30 ppm. The passenger vehicle fleet is 98% RUG to PUG (249.312 M/254.4 M vehicles) It also can be delivered at the pumps up to 90 ppm sulfur, IF fuel vendors pay an off-line FEE. So RUG to PUG is any where from 2 TIMES to 18 times DIRTIER (than ULSD D2) !!!!!!
 
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procupine14

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Location
Kansas City, MO
TDI
2003 Beetle 5sp
Defacto that means VW will "own" the US TDI market for years to come. All they really have to do is rise from the cellar on the reliability ratings. If they don't want to really do that, then improve the dealership maintenance networks. They already make very durable machines. Dominance is VW's to lose.
I totally agree with that. Perhaps having at least some other affordable diesel in the market will spur VWoA to start getting some consistency between dealerships and get the diesel experience up and something to be happy about for owners. Instead of now where we all run screaming from dealerships:eek::rolleyes:
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
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Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
I totally agree with that. Perhaps having at least some other affordable diesel in the market will spur VWoA to start getting some consistency between dealerships and get the diesel experience up and something to be happy about for owners. Instead of now where we all run screaming from dealerships:eek::rolleyes:
For sure, you would also agree that our "informal guru system/s" is/are of regional benefit.
 

wxman

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 1999
Location
East TN, USA
TDI
Other Diesel
*Rolls eyes at comments* I love how people harp on diesel ultrafine and nanoparticulate emissions without worrying about the same emissions from gas engines.
I've come to the conclusion that the commentators that come into those diesel blogs on the "green" car sites have an agenda of a gas-hybrid and/or BEV market only, and that diesels are a threat to that agenda. They are apparently trying to "guilt" everyone into believing that anyone who purchases a diesel vehicle, even the current generation of "clean diesel" vehicles, is irresponsibly polluting "their" air.

Of course, this is utter nonsense; the current generation of light-duty diesels is at least as "clean" as even PZEV hybrids if you take all emissions associated with the vehicles into account (i.e., "well-to-wheels"). Clean diesel vehicles also have lower emissions almost across the board than equivalent BEVs under our current electric grid configuration.

I wonder how the anti-diesel crowd explains the layer of soot inside the exhaust of their hybrids? Wait, don't tell me, it's from atmospheric deposition of all that ambient soot from diesels, right? :rolleyes:
 

DnA Diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2000
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
TDI
no more...
....I wonder how the anti-diesel crowd explains the layer of soot inside the exhaust of their hybrids? Wait, don't tell me, it's from atmospheric deposition of all that ambient soot from diesels, right? :rolleyes:
Exactly.

I have a neighbour who drives a Prius. In front of a bunch of friends, I challenged him to a 'duel' of sorts -- each guy swipes the inside of his exhaust pipe and then has to lick his finger. Everyone who watched, including buddy himself, couldn't believe how clean the 335d's exhaust was. His exhaust on the other hand...well...let's just say he doesn't sit on the "environmental moral high ground" any more. ;)

Of course, the best vehicle would be a diesel-hybrid -- diesel to maximize the efficiency on the highway cycle, and hybrid to recover the most energy regeneratively during the city cycle.

Cheers
 

cmitchell

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2002
Location
Southern Oregon Coast
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS black / black leather
I believe they realized that if they built diesel cars as well as their gassers, their customers would die before they came back in for service or a new car...

Not true if those vehicles happeded to be automatics. Honda builds crappy automatic transmissions. I will never buy another one. My Honda experience has certainly been an expensive "odyssey"...
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Not true if those vehicles happeded to be automatics. Honda builds crappy automatic transmissions. I will never buy another one. My Honda experience has certainly been an expensive "odyssey"...
I wonder how Toyota and Honda keep the fast wearing brake pads and rotors and non durable automatic transmissions, etc, such a marketing secret??? I mean EVERYBODY's got the word about VW !!!!

So for example I know that if my 04 Civic automatic transmission IF it is going to fail, will be between 175,000 to 250,000 miles. If not, (I am hoping) I am probably home free till 400,000 miles or hopefully... more. Repair costs will be app 2 to 3k @ its appointed time.
 

gpshumway

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Minneapolis, MN
TDI
2000 Jetta
Not true if those vehicles happeded to be automatics. Honda builds crappy automatic transmissions.
I think you're over-generalizing here. AFAIK, the problems are primarily with V6 automatic vehicles. As ruking said, the Civic automatics are very good. 175k is longer than the vast majority of people own their cars and an entirely reasonable service life.
 

TurbinePower

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Location
Upstate SC
TDI
None
Unless you happen to be a user in the second-hand market, as we are with my sister's Civic. Luckily the trans seems to be behaving... for a while it was leaking and acting very funny, but a drain and refill with fresh Honda fluid seems to be making it behave... I don't want to power flush an automatic that I can't replace the filter on! :eek:
 
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