replacing steering wheel with multifunction wheel

[bobbiemartin]

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Cuppie - many thanks for the response. so this exercise would require 451 rely and much rewiring, not to mention much pain and /or expense.

I've done this and it's not that bad. The easiest way is with a Kufatec retrofit wiring harness. You will need the relay, I think it's a 451 but you may want to verily. As I recall the earlier MK4s used a 452 but it's been a while so I may have that backwards. I believe you also need a different clockspring to match the steering wheel & airbag. You can get the parts cheap on ebay or a local u pull it salvage yard.



It is a worthwhile modification, especially if you have the stock radio. I much prefer the cruise on the steering wheel vs the stalk. If you are going this far, you may as well get the MFD cluster and correct stalks!

 

[509thpib]

Bobbie Martin
I concur - the MFSW is wonderful.
had one in my 2003 TDI wagon
- you are giving me courage, reassurance and / or confidence (or could be false confidence on my part). Not quite sure which . . . as yet.
But, this exercise is sounding MUCH more tempting, the more I contemplate it.
many thanks

 

[locarno]

Negative, Ghostrider. If the car didn't come with MFSW, none of the relevant wiring will be present. Non-MFSW cars have the CC wiring routed to the signal stalk, horn is routed to the clockspring. MFSW cars have those things routed to the MFSW relay.


Theoretically, yes, you could - the CC lines are just switched +12v inputs to the ECU (DBW cars) or CC module (DBC cars.)
But! I'd probably want to put a diode on each of the CC lines (from FMSW relay to ECU/CC module), to protect the MFSW relay from having +12v back-fed into the CC outputs there.
{I'm not responsible if you fry the MFSW relay doing this. }

Do you have diagram for CCS for Passat B5 FL with new type of stalk ? I heard that CANCEL button won't work if I plug CCS to MFSW and stalk both.

 

[Nuje]

Yes, I will keep a thread started in 2002 alive!

I'm in the process of doing this swap - pulled the necessary "hard" parts (wheel, airbag, relay, relay connector) from a 2003 Passat, with the recipient being a 2003 Golf that came with factory cruise control.

The questions that are giving me pause right now:
1. Where's the best place to connect the CAN-HI/LO wires? And what's the best connection method?
Wiretap (seems sketchy because those CAN wires are quite narrow)
Cut-and-twist-and-butt-connect (seems like a bad idea to cut CAN wires)

2. The "watertight box" referred to: Those wires obviously head down into the relay panel; can we just tap the wires in the loom behind the relays?
Or is it preferable to open up the "water-tight box"?

3. My 2003 Golf came with a five-pin yellow connector on the clockspring under the steering wheel, but only had four wires coming out of it; can I just use that clockspring? Or should I use the one from the Passat?

 

[cuppie]

Your clockspring is fine - 5-pin is 5-pin. Only need to swap if your car has a 4-pin unit.

No need to open up the E-box, as the cruise wires are already present inside the car - they're currently routed to the signal/cruse stalk. Splice and re-route to the MFSW relay.

CAN bus: literally, anywhere on the Comfort-CAN will do. The radio would be a fairly convenient place.
Probably the best way to splice the bus would be with cap splices (looks like a closed-end butt connector.) I would twist first, then crimp.
Does the Golf actually have a CAN radio? IIRC, not all of the '03 Golfs did. Factory single-DIN = not CAN, double-DIN = CAN.

 

[Nuje]

Thanks for the reply, cuppie (I wish I'd actually get notifications for these threads). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm confused, still, by what people mean by "splice" or "tap into". I did all the wiring with T-tap connectors, but got nothing; that is, when I hit the switch to turn on/off cruise, the little icon in the instrument cluster doesn't show up.

So, now, (looking at the wiring diagrams), given that there's no "control" wires (instead, only T10s/4,6,7) coming from the T10s (plug by the steering column), so I've cut the wire coming from the signal stalk. The cut end nearest the steering column I'm just capping and leaving unattached to anything, and then running the appropriate wire from the relay451 connector into the "car" end of that wire.

My 2002 Golf had CAN radio, so I assumed (?) that my 2003, which more/better options would be as well (came with aftermarket radio, so I don't recall for sure....but there was no dedicated "retained accessory power" wire - had to wire that in, so I'm 90% sure that it is CAN as well.

Maybe it's the wiring of T10s/4,7 that I have messed up; can you (or anyone) explain what the physical connection of this should look like (yellow highlighted wires):
(What I did: cut the T10s/4 wire and ran that to T18c/4; took the cut end ("car" side) of the T10s/4, and joined it to the T10s/7 wire - which should run straight to the T10e/3 connection (second image - what my stock wiring looks like).

 

[Nuje]

Ok, so I managed to get the cruise to "kinda sorta" work, in that at least the CRUISE icon now shows up on the cluster (in troubleshooting earlier, I'd changed the coding to 00108...changed it back to its original 00118), and the button presses get recognized in Module 16-Steering Wheel measuring blocks.

Measuring blocks 2 (I think it was) measures "Left hand" button presses - which are the cruise control. And when I press RES/+, [MEM UP >] shows in the measuring block; SET/- gives me [MEM DN <]. CANCEL gives me "ACTIVATED" when I press it (which I assume/hope is correct).

And, of course, cruise fails to work...(although, I was just in town at 60km/h, but IIRC, cruise works anywhere above 40km/h or so).

Soooo.....any ideas from the peanut gallery?

 

[Nuje]

I assume I should get something like "RES" in the measuring block when I hit the RES button; instead, I get MEM UP (which is same thing I get when I hit the "UP" button over on the RH side of the wheel).

Audio (RH) side of the MFSW seems to be doing what it's supposed to do:

So, given that there's no direct wire, but rather, the signal is through the CAN wires and relay....how do I troubleshoot those cruise buttons?

 

[cuppie]

Actually, not via CAN, those messages.
The MFSW buttons each have a defined(and unique) resistance value when pressed - this is how the MFSW 'relay' determines which button is pressed.
The relay then translates those presses into appropriate forms, and routes them out:
Cruise control commands are output as +12v signals on individual wires (just like if you had 'stalk' cruise) to the ECU (for DBW cars) or cruise control module (for DBC cars).
Radio commands go out on the Comfort-CAN, or serial REM line (depending on if the car had a CAN or non-CAN radio originally.)

Long story short: Your issue is, most likely, a faulty button set in the steering wheel.

 

[Nuje]

Well, now I'm confused, because in looking at the wiring diagram, and the T10s that came off my donor car, there are only three wires coming off of it...so one of those wires just carries different resistance when pressed...?

Either way, I re-did my wiring, using taps on the wires coming off the T10s at the steering column, got some good trouble-shooting help from NeroMorg (see quote below), and....it worked! Seems to lag a bit (like, I probably have to hold the SET or RESUME button close to a second for it to "take"), but good enough for me.

You can check the operation of the RES, SET, CANCEL buttons, as well as the clutch and brake switches, by (in VCDS), going to Module 01-ENGINE, Measuring Blocks, and Group 006. The third box there is for Cruise Control system, it should read "000011" which will indicate it's ready to set cruise.
Here's a brief breakdown of what that readout means"
* x00011 - Indicates if clutch is depressed or not. Zero means released, 1 means pressed
* 0x0011 - Indicates if Brake pedal is depressed. Again, zero released 1 pressed.
* 00x011 - indicator for Resume (+) switch, will stay zero by default, will switch to 1 when button is pressed, when released goes back to zero.
* 000x11 - indicator for Set(-) switch, operates the same as Resume
* 0000x1 - indicator for Cancel switch, pressing it changes it to a zero, releasing changes to a 1
* Turning off the stalk switch changes all digits to a zero, and the Cruise control 4th box will change from 1.0 to 0.0.

 

[sebkup1]

Hello,
could someone tell me how working 451/452 relay should behave?
Right now I have two relays 451 and 452.
When I'm connecting 451 to the power supply it receives some power around 80 mA. After a moment steering wheels buttons ilumination increases (which as I assume, means that both controllers communicating) but when I'm sending horn signal from steering wheel nothing really happens between pin 9 and 12.
And about 452:
When I'm connecting it to the power (pin 10 and 13 same as for 451) no power is running from supply - 0,00 A. And same nothing on pin 9 nor 12 and buttons on steering wheel didn't even lights up

 

[neppru]

Hello,
I bought my first car several days ago and I would like to put in my Golf MKVI some MSFW. I found one MSFW from Jetta 2012 for sale. Is possible to fit Jetta 2012 MFSW to MKVI?
Thanks for any answer!!

 

[jarahbe32]

may not be interpreting the diagram correctly here, but it looks like T18c/1 goes to T32a/9 for B230 Low-Bus, and T18c/3 goes to T32a/8 for B229 High-Bus.
panorama charter
192.168.11

 

[cuppie]

may not be interpreting the diagram correctly here, but it looks like T18c/1 goes to T32a/9 for B230 Low-Bus, and T18c/3 goes to T32a/8 for B229 High-Bus.

I would need to pull out the Bentley to check that. You have a picture (clear, not fuzzy, please) you can post?