Replacing PD Camshaft Position Sensor

[drywaller]

I ended up replacing my sensor with a VW replacement part. Everything was great for about a month after the replacement. I was able to see my torsion values etc etc. Then one morning it was back to the long starts that are indicative of a sensor malfunction. I have not had time to Troubleshoot it yet . Any thoughts as to why it would just quit?

 

[lirunaway]

I remember reading somewhere some engines had connection issues. I couldn't find anything like that.

 

[drywaller]

I have the weekend off (wooohooo) so I am going to plug it in and try and figure it out.

 

[pruzink]

I have a 2004 BEW Jetta. I have had that intermittent camshaft position error from time to time for years. I am at the tail end of the replacing the camshaft & timing belt so while I was doing that I also replaced this sensor. On the 04, in order to replace this sensor I had to pull the plastic piece in back of the timing belt back in order to move the sensor up & get it out. I don't think that I could have done that with the timing belt on (I had the TB off and the camshaft sprocket/pulley). I would suggest tabling this job until your next timing belt.

 

[oldpoopie]

I have a 2004 BEW Jetta. I have had that intermittent camshaft position error from time to time for years. I am at the tail end of the replacing the camshaft & timing belt so while I was doing that I also replaced this sensor. On the 04, in order to replace this sensor I had to pull the plastic piece in back of the timing belt back in order to move the sensor up & get it out. I don't think that I could have done that with the timing belt on (I had the TB off and the camshaft sprocket/pulley). I would suggest tabling this job until your next timing belt.

Did you remove the rubber plug in the back side timing belt cover? Its quite easy to replace the sensor without messing with the timing belt.

 

[drywaller]

I think pruzink might have had the hard and brittle sensor plug. Mine came with that as well. Upon removing it it broke into 4 pieces. The replacement is rubber. Removing the hard plastic plug is near impossible without breaking it.
I read elsewhere on here that the 2005 bew engine code did not have the grounding issue with the sensor. Is this bad info?

 

[Dimitri16V]

You can get that same DTC from a cam that is more than 5 degrees out from the crank sensor.

So the first thing I would do was examine the TB. Is it tensioned? No fuzz? Cam sprocket bolts tight? Cam not all the way at the end of the slot (which may be normal, but may also indicate it slipped behind its three small bolts.)

The second would be to examine the wiring connections. Check the resistances of the plug and jack. The numbers are posted somewhere here on the site. Or PM me and I will measure them again on my BEW.

The third would be to mechanically check the timing. (Or simply try to adjust the cam no more than 5 degrees - not exceeding slot travel.)

Remember the cam to crank angle (MVB4 field 4) reads zero when the cam and crank sensors disagree - it is a substituted value.

On a BEW I would also remove and clean my crank sensor - make sure it did not get a piece of metal on it's tip.

Timing belt is fesh and intact
The cam is not 5 deg off , engine would not start
Ground wire in the harness is good
Removed and cleaned crank sensor

what worries me is that the error showed after I changed the camshaft
The cam encoder wheel is tight on the camshaft and the latter is installed correctly
Is it possible that the encoder wheel does not align perfectly with the sensor due to the cam being aftermarket
I have a new sensor on the way , if I still get the error , I will look into the sensor/cam alignement

 

[Dimitri16V]

checked it again with VCDS

Camshaft sensor error : no signal

Checking it measuring values , it changes from 0 to some crazy numbers ( -2...+ 7 , before settling to 0 )

Checked the connector coming off the engine harness, +14V on one pin , +5V in middle pin and ground on the third pin

Harness and connections to ECU appear OK, 5V must be the ECU defaulting a specific value

Plugged it back again and now it show 1.5 which the value I set it when I changed the T belt. Blipping the throttle brings to 1.0 and the error is now "implausible signal" which now can be erased

shut off engine, started it , sensor reads 5-7 briefly before it settles back to 1.5 and then to 0. I guess the implausible signal error is next

It looks like the sensor to me , unless the wires are broken in it past the plug

 

[drywaller]

Guys, I'm wondering if ones harness has a chaffed wire that shorts out from time to time causing the code. Could this permanently damage the can sensor?

 

[Dimitri16V]

well , it is fixed

it was the orange fluorescent seal inside the harness connector. It must swell overtime or maybe spraying the connector with contact cleaner makes it swell
you can tell that is what is happening when it is hard to click the connectors together. even if it appears locked in, i think it causes an intermittent contact since the seal has a "springy" feel in and pushes the other half of the connector out
I did the same to the MAF connector few years ago when i had "implausible signal" errors from it

Tore out that stupid seal and the sensor reads steady 1.5 , no more crazy readings and the engine/idle is much smoother

 

[drywaller]

Wish my fix was that easy. Going to order a new sensor soon. I also checked my pins and one show 14.5 volts. The middle show 5.5 and the last show voltage that was all over the place. When I checked continuity with my meter I got a solid tone. This should indicate a ground condition right?

 

[turbocharged798]

well , it is fixed

it was the orange fluorescent seal inside the harness connector. It must swell overtime or maybe spraying the connector with contact cleaner makes it swell
you can tell that is what is happening when it is hard to click the connectors together. even if it appears locked in, i think it causes an intermittent contact since the seal has a "springy" feel in and pushes the other half of the connector out
I did the same to the MAF connector few years ago when i had "implausible signal" errors from it

Tore out that stupid seal and the sensor reads steady 1.5 , no more crazy readings and the engine/idle is much smoother

Those seals are far from stupid, without them water will get into the connector and destroy the terminals from corrosion.

 

[Dimitri16V]

Those seals are far from stupid, without them water will get into the connector and destroy the terminals from corrosion.

I agree with you . I am sure when the connector is "born" , the seal works as advertised . Actually , it acts more like a plunger , expelling air and possible moisture when plugging it
I put some dielectric grease where the seal was . Or maybe I will pick a new connector .

I put the car thru its paces , graphing the sensor response. Everything looked good , idle smooth , plenty of power and I am sure the mileage will go up

In all honesty, I really cant see how a hall sensor can go bad

 

[Dimitri16V]

Wish my fix was that easy. Going to order a new sensor soon. I also checked my pins and one show 14.5 volts. The middle show 5.5 and the last show voltage that was all over the place. When I checked continuity with my meter I got a solid tone. This should indicate a ground condition right?

if you check the pins from the harness side , the partly green wire is the ground , check for it resistance with the cylinder head . it should be 0 ohms, if it is high , splice a wire to it and ground it to the cylinder head
there should be no voltage against the ground on that pin

 

[DanG144]

04 PD crankshaft sensor fix, for hard starting.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4409974#post4409974

This was not an issue on the 05 PDs.
I have seen wiring issues, right at the plugs, for both CAM and CRANK sensors.

Remember that the BRM will run with either a good crank sensor or a good cam sensor, but it can refuse to run even with two good sensors, until it figures out which one is correct (if it cannot decide between them.)

A BEW must have a good crank sensor, or it will not run. It will run fine, taking an extra second of cranking, without a cam sensor, unless it is an 04 BEW with the wiring issue, then it can take very long cranking.

 

[drywaller]

Dimitri, funny you mention that. When checking my wires of the four or five that were chaffed the only one from the can sensor was the green stripe wire. Perhaps it was worn thru all the wires and I did not notice it. I'll check that again today.

 

[drywaller]

OK. So I checked my wires again paying close attention to the ground wire. It in fact does ground when checking it to the cylinder head. Doing a resistance check it shows 00.5 on my fluke meter. How can I check the sensor to see if it is my problem? I already checked the timing belt and the sprocket shows right in the middle of the adjustment range. Has to be the sender right?

 

[Dimitri16V]

my "fix" only lasted for a day or so. Long cranking came back again ..

I have a sensor coming in but I will dig out the T60 connector and check on that ground "fix" the dealer did back in 2005 . Those VW techs don't know how to properly crimp wires together

 

[Dimitri16V]

Replaced sensor , it responds OK. Found that my cam setting is actually 2.5 deg while old sensor reported 1.5 deg

Ohm out old and new sensor , identical values

 

[drywaller]

Dimitri I have yet to get a new sensor. But when I replaced it the first time around everything was fine. Then all of the sudden it quit reporting torsion values. I would be curious to see if you have the same problem as I did.

 

[Dimitri16V]

we will see

Mine has been flakey for at least six months and I have been getting hit with less mpg , rough running and plenty of smoke in warmer weather

 

[drywaller]

Guys, how difficult would it be to just bypass the factory cam sensor wires and replace them with new wire altogether? An overlay of sorts. Also seems to me that 14 gauge wire would suffice?

 

[drywaller]

Dimitri, any luck with your sensor?

 

[Franko6]

I stand corrected and willing to admit I was wrong. I appreciate the info as much as the next guy. We have a few cars that this cam sensor issue might just be the trick on the hard start.

 

[drywaller]

I stand corrected and willing to admit I was wrong. I appreciate the info as much as the next guy. We have a few cars that this cam sensor issue might just be the trick on the hard start.

Frank, are you referring to the cam sensor failing there for needing replaced?

 

[Franko6]

We have had several dicey issues with PD cam sensors and crank sensors. Recently, we had a crank sensor that was intermittent that wouldn't fault code. It finally got bad enough that wiggling the wires would increase the problem.

What I am referring to in my error concerning how difficult the cam position sensor is to remove. With a rubber plug removed, it can be removed without disturbing the timing belt. Also, I lost this thread for some time and knew that I had mixed up some info. Instead of being unable to start or run the engine without a CAM SENSOR, it is that the engine will not run without the CRANK SENSOR.

We have seen both crank and cam sensors have issues without giving fault codes, which is aggravating. We have several 'long cranking times' for a few vehicles that we don't want to simply throw parts at.

You would think a crank sensor would code when the signal is wrong. As an example, we had one customer who thought his initial setting of '0' in the torsion value was great for a first try. Then he found out he couldn't change it at all. The cam sensor was a 'no read' and was using the ECU's default input. Some cam/crank sensor wiring faults are not caught in ECU fault codes.

 

[drywaller]

I too get lost in following these threads. Easy to do.
Frank, do you suppose that the cam sensor itself can be damaged by the sensor wires chaffing causing a ground or short to each other? I ask because I replaced mine and a month or so later got a cel. When I pulled that code it was related to the glow plugs. I ordered two plugs in anticipation of need I g to replace one. But before I got them the del went away then the hard starts were back. Can the two be related somehow?

 

[drywaller]

Frank, would it be unwise to replace all three cam sensor wires cutting just short of the ecu and cam sensor plug and splicing in new wires?

 

[drywaller]

Anyone?

 

[DanG144]

I have replaced the faulty wiring on a BEW crank sensor, and drove on it for several years that way, with no issues.

You would want to do a very high quality job with the wiring. Is one of the wire pairs a shielded wire - wire inside a coaxial wire sheath- for the cam sensor?