replacing injection pump seals

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I have a leak on my injection pump (97 B4). It is leaking out the front of the pump right below where the black box with wires is. I think this is the body to quantity adjuster seal...am I right? I am in the process of watching the video that includes all the seals, but am thinking of just replacing the top 2 rectangular seals. If I do that can I skip the remove the injector lines, and turning the engine to get the plunger toward the driver side, etc etc.
Also, if I do that will I still have to prime the pump or will there still be enough fuel in the body to get it going?
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4, '97 Jetta
Make witness marks on the QA to pump and you’ll be fine. You’ll still need to prime the pump and hammer mod to get fueling correct.

You’re buying yourself some time. Sooner or later, it’ll start leaking somewhere else. Typically, I reseal the entire thing, but I’ve replaced just the head seal, when I’m feeling lazy.

-Todd
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Northern MD (HAGERBUSH)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress)
Imo
If the head is dry. Leave it. Doing the QA just do all the seals
Whiteness mark as above
Hammer mod also works.
Don't rush the job. It's easy to mess up if your careless.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I have a friend who has replaced the top seal before and has vag com, so between the two of us and a video or two, we should be ok. It looks like it is leaking at the bottom of the QA...so Mongler are you recommending we just do the seal that is leaking or do all of them?
I am leaning toward just doing the seal for the top cover and the one below the QA. That way I will have more time for the timing belt replacement I have to do as well.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
First, the 'front' of the pump is facing the passenger side of the car...because the engine is sitting transversely in the car. So, if the 'leak' is on the side of the pump below the black box with wires then it's not the QA it's one of the injection timing advance cover seals that's leaking, and they are both prone to leakage. Unfortunately you have to pull the IP to replace the one facing the engine, but if you replace one I can assure you the other seals will start leaking. It's best to pull the IP and replace all five seals rather than trying to address just one at a time as they begin to fail.

All of the seals are straightforward to replace except for the top cover seal, which without question will affect the timing of the IP and require adjustments via 'hammer mod' in order to get it to run again. Pay close attention to the replacement of the distributor head seal (big round one) it requires special attention. Doing the reseal is not difficult just kinda particular, and be clean about it too, you don't want dirt inside the IP.

Good luck and report back!!

Steve
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
Northern MD (HAGERBUSH)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress)
You do not have to pull the pump off to change the seal on the head
The issue is to change the head of the pumps oring you must remove the QA to see the cam lobes so you have to change that anyways reguardless.
Once the battle with the triangle bolt is over and you have the QA off after you have cleaned up all the fuel that came out of it with about a full roll of paper towels jammed everywhere, You have to rotate the engine by the crankshaft bolt in order to rotate the IP. Do not turn the ip sprocket by hand or risk jumping teeth. Lign up the peak of the lobe with the peak of the head and lock it with something at the crank, a piece of angle iron with some holes drilled in it does the trick.
Then you can remove 2 bolts not all 4. O forget but I think it's the lower rear bolt that is a bit longer. You need that one to be swapped to the upper bolt for now. Start to back the bolts out a mm at a time till you can see the entire rubber oring and no more. Remove it with a plastic pic. Use a shoelace dipped in toothpaste and run it into the grove in a almost full circle and pull it back and forth in the groove. This cleans it perfectly in the area you cant really get to. Repeat with acetone or alcohol till clean.
Stretch the oring over the head. Yea it seems like it's impossible. But it will go. It helps to do this dry then at the last minute use a few drops of engine oil to lube it up and pop it into place.
QA seals are easy. Put it back togeather and since you have vcds, go ahead and hammer mod it to about 3 or 4
Done
No need to remove the pump unless it's those cover plate ones. My front one leaked so I took a small bit out of the bracket with a dremel to get it off.
If the head gasket ( fuel lines come out of the head) is not leaking you can leave it alone but keep an eye in it. Diesel leak will kill the engine by busting a coolant hose and causing a overheat and warped head.

I didnt mean it's ok to leave it, just that you could push it off if you are short on time. I would change them all.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4, '97 Jetta
I’ve done one head seal on the car, and I didn’t pull the QA. Didn’t pull the triangular plug, either.

Just change the QA seal now. If you feel up to it, pull the pump and reseal the entire thing when you do the TB.

-Todd
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I think we are going to try on Tuesday. I'll let you all know how it turns out. I am watching the tdi-pumpseal mp3 videos on youtube.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4, '97 Jetta
Ah, I was under the impression the QA seal was just to buy time for a later IP reseal and TB swap. I’d think both could be completed in a weekend, as a first try.

Be aware the main shaft seal is not included in the standard seal kit. If you have a later waffled IP, the lower advance piston cover seal, is also needed, and not included.

-Todd
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
You do not have to pull the pump off to change the seal on the head
The issue is to change the head of the pumps oring you must remove the QA to see the cam lobes so you have to change that anyways reguardless.
Once the battle with the triangle bolt is over and you have the QA off after you have cleaned up all the fuel that came out of it with about a full roll of paper towels jammed everywhere, You have to rotate the engine by the crankshaft bolt in order to rotate the IP. Do not turn the ip sprocket by hand or risk jumping teeth. Lign up the peak of the lobe with the peak of the head and lock it with something at the crank, a piece of angle iron with some holes drilled in it does the trick.
Then you can remove 2 bolts not all 4. O forget but I think it's the lower rear bolt that is a bit longer. You need that one to be swapped to the upper bolt for now. Start to back the bolts out a mm at a time till you can see the entire rubber oring and no more. Remove it with a plastic pic. Use a shoelace dipped in toothpaste and run it into the grove in a almost full circle and pull it back and forth in the groove. This cleans it perfectly in the area you cant really get to. Repeat with acetone or alcohol till clean.
Stretch the oring over the head. Yea it seems like it's impossible. But it will go. It helps to do this dry then at the last minute use a few drops of engine oil to lube it up and pop it into place.
QA seals are easy. Put it back togeather and since you have vcds, go ahead and hammer mod it to about 3 or 4
Done
No need to remove the pump unless it's those cover plate ones. My front one leaked so I took a small bit out of the bracket with a dremel to get it off.
If the head gasket ( fuel lines come out of the head) is not leaking you can leave it alone but keep an eye in it. Diesel leak will kill the engine by busting a coolant hose and causing a overheat and warped head.

I didnt mean it's ok to leave it, just that you could push it off if you are short on time. I would change them all.
Never suggested replacing distributor head seal required removing the pump, but neither does it require removing the top cover either. You can tell when the pump is at the top of the cam lobes without pulling the cover.

The point of my post was that replacement of one seal on a pump where all seals are of the same age will only result in one of the others starting to leak (or leaking even more) in the near future. There is no substitute for replacement of all the seals at once and getting the job done and over, especially with the top cover where you have to hammer mod regardless of whether you have marked it or not. In the end you even say, "I would change them all."

I have never liked having to go back in to do more work or to do repeat work in the same place. If I'm repairing a front suspension I would rather do everything it needs (or could need) and be done with it versus having to revisit the same areas time and time again just to replace another component (or seal). It's a huge waste of time to do that, and I always come back to this, "If you can't find time to do it right when are you going to find time to do it again?" And hence the 'do it all' approach.

Personally I would do it all and be done with it, especially if you have help and VCDS. Colder weather is coming and no one wants to go into the winter with unfinished work that may present new problems (more leaks) when you are least likely to enjoy the work or least likely to have time to address them. But that's just me.

rant over

Steve
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I think I have the standard pump, not a newer one.

I hear you, but I also feel like the more seals I replace the greater the chance I will screw something up. I will see how confident my friend is when he gets here. I know it would be more efficient to do them all. I also have the option of taking it to my friend who is a big rig diesel mechanic and has worked on a lot of these pumps. He said he would do it but is busy right now and it might sit over there for a couple of weeks before he gets to it.

I guess I should order a main shaft seal...wonder why it isn't included.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I guess the pump has to come out to do the main shaft seal. I think I will hold off on this one until it is leaking.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
Also I have a 2nd B4 in the wings that I can drive if it develops another leak in the winter. That one only needs an inner tie rod...which I should do soon.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4, '97 Jetta
If I were to pick and choose which ones to do, it’d be the main shaft, fuel head, lower advance covers and the QA and lid, since those are your main issues. The rest of the kit is copper washers, rubber bumpers, and a few more o-rings. Other than what I mentioned, the rest never seem too problematic.

If you have the smooth body pump, the lower advance covers are just o-rings. Lisle makes a seal puller that would allow you to pull the main shaft seal, while on the car. You don’t gain much, since you'll need to pull the sprocket and redo timing... it’s only a few more bolts, to do it on the bench.

-Todd
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
we decided not to do it today, my friend wants to do some more research, and is still looking for his mighty vac, so the car sits. I'll update after we try it. Thank you for helping out.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
Well, we finally replaced the seals, we just did the two rectangular (almost) seals, the top cover and the QA to body seal. It went well, took a few minutes to get the thing on the QA to fit back into the spot where it belongs, and then a while to get the QA set right. At first it was at 0.0 which was confusing, but we then got it up to 17, and slowly back down to 3.8. The car seemed smokier than normal when driving it the 1/2 mile home, so I will have to do another road test to make sure everything is fine.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I didn't do much as far as the install, mostly just watched, since he had done this several times before.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Glad to hear all went well, the task can be a bit daunting, especially the top cover and QA seals where you have to worry about adjustments to get it running again.

Hope you get the smoky condition ironed out

Steve
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
It seems to be fine, it's a little smoky for the first 3 minutes of driving, and after that all is well. I think it was like that before the issue with the seals. I think part of it is the fact that there is a leak at the flex pipe so some of the exhaust isn't going through the converter.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
So yes, very happy to be able to drive it to work again. Its been amazingly reliable for a 24 yo car.
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
When I was checking the pump for leaks after the install, I replaced the return lines between the injectors and the end cap as well as these were looking really beat up.
 
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