Replacing Cam

[schoolsout]

Ok, definitely need to do this. Was just going to buy the BRM cam kit from Bora or IDparts, but now I've been reading about Colt Cams.

I am looking for longevity mostly. I guess I should order a BEW cam for my BRM engine. What do y'all think?

As for the rest of the parts, do I order the kit, minus the cam from the one of the other two vendors?

 

[redlm]

I don't think there is any way to guess at future durability. I also don't believe the cam profile of the BRM is responsible for early wear.

How many miles on your car? What are your symptoms?

 

[schoolsout]

105k miles
We've visually inspected the cam and it needs to be replaced

Edit... just ordered the Joe Gibbs BR30 break in oil. Still contemplating what cam to buy.

 

[Rockcrawler]

I just had my Cam done, I went with colt, also for perceived longevity. From what I've read, Colt looked at our "problem" and said what can i do better.

They improved the profile to be more consistent with proven profiles for our lifters. I also had Frank06 oiling mods done to the cam bearings. This is said to improve oiling to the bearing, but also feeds the lobe/lifter interface better. I also have more confidence in Colt's heat treating than i do VW's.

We can't get around lobe width, but we can improve other aspects and can now know the new cam always saw the proper oil. I intend to keep my car for another 200k. It's got 103k now and i do about 40k a yr.

 

[schoolsout]

Thanks
Trying to contact FrankO6 now

I do about 30k+/year and want this car to last me.

 

[Henrick]

Are there at least a few cases which prove that either Colt Cam or Frank's mods do actually work? Like an inspeciont results, 30k, 40k miles or more on replacement parts?

I did a search but found nothing.

 

[unionamt]

i just looked at my cam quickly last week 92K mi, and it looks like i'm losing the chamfer on 3E? (3rd lobe inboard from driver's side). right now i'm in the middle of reading up on all of the info on here about cams. since it is time for my TB i'm looking to do cam at same time. at this moment i'm leaning toward the colt stage 2 cam, the only question is same as yours.. whether to go with brm or bew?

 

[schoolsout]

Are there at least a few cases which prove that either Colt Cam or Frank's mods do actually work? Like an inspeciont results, 30k, 40k miles or more on replacement parts?

I did a search but found nothing.

I thought I saw a post of someone that used a Colt BEW cam in a BRM engine and looked at cam after about 40k miles and everything looked good so far. I'll have to see if I can find it again. I came across it last night.

union, I spoke with Franko6 this AM and he is hoping to have some BEW cams by next week, but isn't 100% positive. I guess I'll have to wait and see. If you are seriously considering going that route, you may want to start the process ASAP.

I will take pics when we attempt this (and by "we," I mean DanG...I just hand him papertowels and tools! I did learn a ton my last visit, though. Glad to have someone like him near me).

This past month or so has encouraged me to start doing most of my routine maintenance instead of trusting a shop to do it. I was running the wrong oil in my engine for about 95k miles or so.

 

[Rockcrawler]

Ben (Vwjettadsl) did my cam/tb job. He works with Frank06 at times at Franks shop and does housecalls the rest. So he's pretty close to all this. My cam is a stg 2, but i forget if its BEW or BRM. I asked Ben specifically to let me know what type of follow up experience there was, who/what cars had been back in and had the cams/brgs looked at after the oiling mods and or new cam dseigns. He was going to look into that.

I drank the koolaid on the oiling mods as it was consistent with other oiling mods i've been exposed to and some principles i vaguely remember on plain brgs from engr school too many yrs ago.

If the stocker went 103k with 75k of unk oil (VW just used the wrong oil priort to me buying the car) then I'm confident I'll get 100k and likely much better.

BTW, I replace my oil pump as well after it was inspected. The longer you wait the more likley you will need an oil pump. I was told that if my lifter had worn much further I would have been reworking the head too so I dodged that bullet.... don't drag your feet. And my car was still driving just fine with a hint of extra noise many people would never detect. (I've got a pretty good mechanical ear too).

 

[schoolsout]

Damn, me being at 105k has me worried a bit. I'm trying to get this done ASAP, but need schedules to work out.

 

[2dedge]

I just went the Koolaid route also however I did the work myself.

Frank06's special bearings, reworked the cam caps, drilled the Head, Colt stage II BEW cam, new Black nitrided lifters, Joe gibbs assembly lube, Joe Gibbs break in Oil Twice.

I did not do the oil pump, maybe I should have but who knows.

The OE cam went 153,000ish she drives 50k a year 90% highway at 68/70ish bone stock car.

Now I am doing the clutch with a single mass Southbend unit next weekend to get rid of the other subtle noise my wife noticed.

 

[schoolsout]

I'm definitely drinking some major koolaid, but I'm figuring I'd rather "try" and do it right now or second guess myself for the next 100k+ miles. What's another coupla hundo now compared to doing this again? The only con I can see is the Colt Cam and all the extras lasting just as long as the OEM cam. If it does only last that long (and I really think it is a better alternative even if it is blind faith at this point), I will have long forgotten about the few extra $$$ I spent now.

 

[redlm]

It will be years before we know if the modifications make any difference. And we won't know what actually made the difference, either-but the real difference in cost over the miles isn't too significant.

 

[mattds]

what are the performance gains of the COLT cams?

 

[kjmiv]

I did the exact same thing as 2dedge. I also went with a Malone tune. I am thrilled with the results. Cost a little bit more but it is already forgotten.

 

[schoolsout]

What is the Joe Gibbs assembly lube for?

Edit...
OK, let's say I want to use some of this while assembling the cam and whatnot, a 1oz tube is $2.99

Would 4 be enough for the cam job in the PD engine?

 

[Henrick]

What is the Joe Gibbs assembly lube for?

Edit...
OK, let's say I want to use some of this while assembling the cam and whatnot, a 1oz tube is $2.99

Would 4 be enough for the cam job in the PD engine?

Drivbiwire suggests not to use any assembly lubes. He's a very knowledgable and respected mechanic here. Personally I would trust on what he says.

 

[hevster1]

Drivbiwire suggests not to use any assembly lubes. He's a very knowledgable and respected mechanic here. Personally I would trust on what he says.

I completely disagree. Assembly lubes will NOT hurt anything and prevent a dry start. I have been building all kinds of engines for over 30 years and always use it. I use some provided by a cam regrinder. My engines last without problems.

 

[schoolsout]

interesting...I may just order some and if we don't use it, It'll look neat on my pseudo work bench next to the tackle center...

and my damn head hurts from reading that 101 page BRM cam failure thread...I need a beer

 

[Jnitrofish]

I didn't even use a whole tube of the Joe Gibbs assembly grease. I spread some on the bearings and just poured some oil on the lifters and cam once it was put together, made sure I had the oil filter housing full of oil and the oil pump (which I replaced) primed.

Basically I made sure that engine was anything but dry and dirty when I reassembled it, using the oil as not only a lubricant but to flush out any dirt before putting it together.

 

[schoolsout]

The BR30 came in today. I may just get a few tubes of the assembly grease just to have. I would assume anything leftover could be used by someone else and plan on leaving what is leftover behind at Dan's.

Now, I'm back to thinking about which cam. I am leaning back towards going with a regular BRM cam. Using the 5W40 Pentosin and ZDDPlus should help out.

 

[Rockcrawler]

I gotta admit, as much as the cost stung to do a cam, tb and oil pump all at once, it's nice to know I'm good for a while and that my BRM colt Stage 2 will only see good oil as long as I own it

Mileage is back where it used to be too. Just found the tires a bit low (26) and pumped them up to see how tomorrow's 121 mile (one way) commute goes.

 

[schoolsout]

I'm still thinking...I may end up doing the Colt. Did you do the BEW stage II cam? Any difference in performance?

I did the DMF earlier in Nov., so the cam is making the sting just a little more painful.

What was the reason you did the oil pump? Did you have major damage on a lifter or something?

 

[unionamt]

he said he did a BRM stage 2 colt cam. thats the one i think i am going to go with also.. not too sure about the exact differences between brm/bew profiles, but i think i read somewhere that you had to adjust rocker height if switching to bew. i don't have a dial indicator for that, and, having never changed a cam on these, i would rather have a 'drop in' than one to make adjustments for. i think i also read somewhere in all of the pages of info that the colt engineered the lobe profile better for the brm. for me, it will come down to what franko6 has in stock when i finally get the cash together for this. haven't contacted him yet, as i don't know when i'll have the cash.

 

[Jnitrofish]

Is there actually a BRM stage II (performance, not just improvements)? I thought the only thing you could do with a BRM was a stage I (just valve lobe improvements, parkerization).

I went with a BEW stage II myself, adjusted the injector rocker pins for the shorter injector lobes (without the dial indicator, its not that precise of a science), I can't notice a difference outside of the unusual power characteristics my car had to begin with (compared to my other two Jettas).

 

[DanG144]

Franko6 was bending my ear about his frustration with the recent dyno day not working out as he expected - they had been hoping to get some hard numbers on different cam combinations.

I have had two folks simply put BEW cams in BRMs - and they notice no difference. I am sure there are some differences, but I doubt it is worth agonizing over - for most of us. I doubt serviceability and drivability are impacted.

If you are racing or just a certain type of gear head, then it will be important to you.

I won't lose any sleep over it either way.

'You pays your money and you takes your chances.'

 

[Rockcrawler]

confirming my cam is BRM stage 2, at least that's what it says on the invoice. butt dyno can't tell any difference, but i drive it soft anyway. It's not like I'm pulling hills with my cummins grossing 13-23k.

Ben convinced me to inspect the oil pump. He's done a lot of these and he bases the need to inspect on amount of lobe and lifter wear. He seams to have a good feel for it. It only takes another couple minutes to inspect the old pump once it's out, and he usually replaces them... mine was anyway. In the scheme of things it's nice to have spent the extra with the miles i have planned for this car.

All *****ing aside, is there really a better alternative in the gen 5 than a PD with a fresh, better geometry colt cam, Improved??? brg and lobe oiling from Frank06 and knowing how the cam is broken in and what oil it will see going forward? I'd rather be where I'm at now than rolling the HPFP dice.

 

[schoolsout]

Hmmm....thanks for the info. I, too, was not aware of the BRM stage II cam from Colt. I asked Frank about the BEW cam and should be getting a quote on all the stuff to go along with it in the near future.

 

[Henrick]

All *****ing aside, is there really a better alternative in the gen 5 than a PD with a fresh, better geometry colt cam, Improved??? brg and lobe oiling from Frank06 and knowing how the cam is broken in and what oil it will see going forward? I'd rather be where I'm at now than rolling the HPFP dice.

First, I can't find any statistical proof that either Colt Cam or Frank's mods do really work.

Second, do you think that cams are broken in wrong at VW factory?

 

[Rockcrawler]

First, I can't find any statistical proof that either Colt Cam or Frank's mods do really work.

Second, do you think that cams are broken in wrong at VW factory?

I suspect you are correct with statistical proof.... until we have pics of cams, lobes, brgs and followers with 70-100k miles... there is none.

But I think the glass is half full. Franks experience is considerable, it's hard to find flaw with the logic he applies and the methods used are consistent with other oil fed plain bearing designs and mods. Something I learned more recently as the brg mods also serve to direct more oil to the lobe/follower interface.

Colt has considerable cam experience and as a smaller company specializing in cams I suspect they pay a little more attention to things. VW has a marginal design cam (lobe width and profile), with dealers who seem to have trouble using the right spec oil. I can 't vouch for their cam break in procedures but I'll venture to say few if any production engines use the methods Frank and others use. if the engineers and accountants think the design and methods will last past the warranty period they forge ahead. So, does VW do it wrong? No, they do what's typical, but with a lousy designed cam, and we get to pay for it in the end. The typical methods work fine for a traditional designed cam with lots of margin in the design.

Colt says the lobe geometry was less than optimum (that's being nice) and they improved it. Do I believe them and their opinion? yes i do.

so... to summarize, the assembly, oiling mods, break in have more attention to detail than most any production engine, not just VW's (Look into race/performance engine mods/assy/break in if you like). One can choose to go with VW's proven cams or one can take a chance on Colt's improved geometry and parkerizing benefit (I don't know if VW parkerizes).

So Henrick, and others... do your homework and spend your money how you like, I know i did.

I'm no expert, but I've been around racing quite a bit, have an an engineering degree (and know plenty of ME's who can't change a spark plug, I'm not one of them) and I've been repairing/ assembling jet engines most of my life. Not bragging, just letting you know I've been around.

We'd all like statistical proof on the solution. We don't have one right now. If that was the ultimate driver i would get an old school 8 valve 4 cyl Cummins 4BT and adapt it into the car.