Renewable energy thread

[pkhoury]

I figured it was time for a new thread... because talking about Europe's energy dependence really has nothing to do with "who is going to a Tesla after having owned a TDI..."

 

[Mongler98]

Just wait for the 2025 solar flare wipes out the grid for 4 years!
I'm starting to think those MTDI mods might be worth it!

 

[nwdiver]

Just wait for the 2025 solar flare wipes out the grid for 4 years!
I'm starting to think those MTDI mods might be worth it!

How long do you think the diesel will last? Hard to refine more without the grid. Not to mention extracting more oil.

The best insurance for the grid being knocked out is a PV system capable of operating off-grid and being able to use that energy for everything

 

[Mozambiquer]

One of the things I like about diesels is how many different things you can run them on... Yeah, it may not run as well, but you can run veggie oil, used motor oil, wood smoke, and other things with some modifications.
Right now, we have fuel and that's what I run, as it's better on the car and not necessarily cost effective to run alternatives. But, I can get an oil press and grow soybeans if I wanted to.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If I could source it reliably I'd run my TDIs on biodiesel, at least the ones that can accept it. But bio availability around here has pretty much dropped to zero. I've wanted to heat my house with it, too, but I've never found anyone who would deliver to me.

 

[nwdiver]

grow soybeans if I wanted to.

How many acres do you have? 1 Acre will yield 70 gallons/yr. Good for ~3500miles? ~3 solar panels will yield more useful energy.

 

[Lightflyer1]

If I could source it reliably I'd run my TDIs on biodiesel, at least the ones that can accept it. But bio availability around here has pretty much dropped to zero. I've wanted to heat my house with it, too, but I've never found anyone who would deliver to me.

Pretty much dried up here too when runonbeer left the market. I made small batches for a while and then stopped.

 

[Mongler98]

How long do you think the diesel will last?

Just as long as other fuels that are transporting our 1 day amazon purchases.
Like 90% of diesel use is in shipping over an ocean and trucking about 80/20 (20 being trucks) split. Neither of them will even put a dent into conversions for at least 50 years.
Farm equipment to grow our precious ethonal and e85 to and to feed us beef are 70% of that remaining 10% I said earlier. The rest is in light / small farm use with about 1% left behind being residential car truck use and only 0.01% of that being in the USA.

Diesel is (don't correct me if I'm wrong, just assume I'm right because I'm totally guessing here) 3/4 of all the fuel used. The rest is asphalt tar and with a little gasoline (goes in cars) left over coming out of the plants.
*educated guess*

TLDR
Electric will never stay with us. It's not a good solution.
Farming, concrete production, and other goods manufactured account for way too much greenhouse gasses (supposedly) that even if diesel and gas goes away... we need a better source of energy to produce goods and building materials.
Everyone focuses on cars becuase it is what everyone can do
Want to save on the grid. Get rid of your tv and your phones.

 

[pkhoury]

How many acres do you have? 1 Acre will yield 70 gallons/yr. Good for ~3500miles? ~3 solar panels will yield more useful energy.

I've got 3 solar panels, that put out about 300 watts. I think I asked someone on this group about what I could do with them and was referred to buy $3-6K of more panels, without a solid plan. And that's good to know for an acre of soybeans. Shame that all my acreage is being taken up by my cows, goats and sheep right now.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Hey, you can eat soy beans too...
I currently have 5 acres, working on getting more.
Plus, I don't have to pay for an expensive electric car, which would take forever to break even.
The cost benefit would take a long time to even be practical.

 

[nwdiver]

I've got 3 solar panels, that put out about 300 watts. I think I asked someone on this group about what I could do with them and was referred to buy $3-6K of more panels, without a solid plan. And that's good to know for an acre of soybeans. Shame that all my acreage is being taken up by my cows, goats and sheep right now.

You can certainly connect them to an inverter and get ~1000kWh/yr but that’s only slightly more useful than harvesting an acre of soybeans. If you’re gonna put in the effort to connect 1kW might as well do 10kW and get some actual use out of the effort

 

[nwdiver]

Hey, you can eat soy beans too...
I currently have 5 acres, working on getting more.
Plus, I don't have to pay for an expensive electric car, which would take forever to break even.
The cost benefit would take a long time to even be practical.

You can either eat them or covert them to fuel. Why not buy a used EV and DIY some PV for ~$15k. You can use that everyday not just after the apocalypse. It would pay for itself in <4 years. Then use your soybeans for food instead of fuel

 

[Mozambiquer]

You can either eat them or covert them to fuel. Why not buy a used EV and DIY some PV for ~$15k. You can use that everyday not just after the apocalypse. It would pay for itself in <4 years. Then use your soybeans for food instead of fuel

So, your saying I should buy a used ev because it would be cheaper for me? I don't think so.
$15k wouldn't even come close to buying an ev that would fit my needs let alone solar panels and a PV setup.
Then I'd also be trading something I can fix for something that nobody locally can fix if anything goes wrong. I'd have lower range, little to no towing capacity, or at least greatly reduced range if I were to tow.
I'll keep my diesels, you keep your electric car.

 

[nwdiver]

So, your saying I should buy a used ev because it would be cheaper for me? I don't think so.
$15k wouldn't even come close to buying an ev that would fit my needs let alone solar panels and a PV setup.
Then I'd also be trading something I can fix for something that nobody locally can fix if anything goes wrong. I'd have lower range, little to no towing capacity, or at least greatly reduced range if I were to tow.
I'll keep my diesels, you keep your electric car.

How much does it cost to make a gallon of diesel from soybeans. Just curious if it’s worth considering as a backup fuel source. Is it a lot of work?

 

[Mongler98]

How much does it cost to make a gallon of diesel from soybeans. Just curious if it’s worth considering as a backup fuel source. Is it a lot of work?

Well according to google
One bushel of soybeans can yield 1.5 gallons of biodiesel (NBB). Using all U.S. soybeans for biodiesel could produce 5.1 billion gallons biofuel.

 

[gulfcoastguy]

Canola(rapeseed) is much more productive on a per acre basis.

 

[Mozambiquer]

How much does it cost to make a gallon of diesel from soybeans. Just curious if it’s worth considering as a backup fuel source. Is it a lot of work?

How much does it cost to buy an EV that has 600 mile range, will tow 2-4000 lbs, will comfortably hold two car seats plus a stroller and luggage, that handles curves well, that is comfortable, and tough?
I'm using pump diesel right now, but if there is no supply of that, I can switch to other fuels.

 

[turbobrick240]

Those other "diesel" fuels won't last long in a post apocalyptic energy scenario. And you'd be far better off utilizing what little resources are available to grow food crops for food rather than fuel.

From a renewability perspective, the latest studies indicate that growing food crops for fuel is a net negative. Producing biofuels from cellulosic feedstocks is generally much better, but you're not going to be cooking that up in your backyard or garage. If the grid were to go down, I don't think I'd be doing much traveling anyhow. I like the idea of the sun quietly powering my home while I toil in the soil to put food on the table.

 

[nwdiver]

How much does it cost to buy an EV that has 600 mile range, will tow 2-4000 lbs, will comfortably hold two car seats plus a stroller and luggage, that handles curves well, that is comfortable, and tough?
I'm using pump diesel right now, but if there is no supply of that, I can switch to other fuels.

A bushel of soybean is $17 so that’s $11 per gallon. You’d rather pay $11 per gallon than take a couple 20 minute breaks on a 9 hour road trip????

 

[Mongler98]

A bushel of soybean is $17 so that’s $11 per gallon. You’d rather pay $11 per gallon than take a couple 20 minute breaks on a 9 hour road trip????

that was not the point and in most o the rest of the world its well past the $10 a gallon.
and NO a bushel is more like $7 to 8 bucks per bushel, and an acre is about 50 to 60 bushels. He has 5 acres to grow. so 250 bushels. or about 150 gallons of bio diesel in the end per crop.
Its not 11 per gallon, its like 5 a gallon and thats pesticide resistant. If you grow natural by old school tractor with minimal costs its more like $2 a bushel and thats because your not selling it so there are less costs.
in the topc deisussed of what to do as a alternative or renewable... growing your own fuel is a good idea and even right now is CHEAPER than fuel depending 0on if your paying for water!

 

[Mozambiquer]

A bushel of soybean is $17 so that’s $11 per gallon. You’d rather pay $11 per gallon than take a couple 20 minute breaks on a 9 hour road trip????

You're avoiding my question about how much it would cost to get an ev that would work for me.
You're making it about the cost, but it's thousands of times cheaper for me to continue to drive my TDI than to go buy an electric car.
I didn't say soy bean oil is cheaper than diesel, I just said I've got the option if I wanted to.

 

[Mongler98]

You're avoiding my question about how much it would cost to get an ev that would work for me.
You're making it about the cost, but it's thousands of times cheaper for me to continue to drive my TDI than to go buy an electric car.
I didn't say soy bean oil is cheaper than diesel, I just said I've got the option if I wanted to.

probably more like 10,000 times cheaper, maybe 30,000x like you said setting up infrastructure....

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You're avoiding my question about how much it would cost to get an ev that would work for me.
You're making it about the cost, but it's thousands of times cheaper for me to continue to drive my TDI than to go buy an electric car.

I don't think you're asking the right question. Of course it's cheaper right now to keep driving your TDI. I doubt anyone saves money on an EV short term when compared to continuing to drive what they own. And I'm not even sure saving money is a good reason to switch to an EV. Transporting yourself, your stuff, and your family in a vehicle that has dramatically lower emissions (note I didn't say zero), is the reason. This thread is about renewables, right?

Fact is you could do everything you do with your diesel with an EV, with the possible exception of towing. But it will require behavior changes and it will cost more. We aren't getting any more diesels here (maybe), and ours aren't going to lasts forever. An interesting question might be whether it would be easier and less expensive to replace your diesel with a gasoline powered vehicle or with an EV?

 

[turbobrick240]

With all of the progress being made in LFP battery energy density, we are entering a new era where EVs are cheaper to produce than an equivalent gasoline or diesel vehicle. That savings will eventually get passed on to consumers as supply catches up with demand and new models are introduced. China is several steps ahead in that area, with inexpensive EV models already on the market there. They also don't really have a deeply engrained car culture that is resistant to modernize. The LFP battery progress is also hugely beneficial to renewable energy as a whole. By the end of this decade I think most new construction with decent sun exposure will be outfitted with PV and battery storage.

 

[pkhoury]

You can certainly connect them to an inverter and get ~1000kWh/yr but that’s only slightly more useful than harvesting an acre of soybeans. If you’re gonna put in the effort to connect 1kW might as well do 10kW and get some actual use out of the effort

Yeah, but that's gonna take a lot of used 10-20 year old solar panels, right? The other problem is where to mount them. I don't think my roofs are really catered towards mounting solar panels, but I currently use the roofs of both houses for rainwater harvesting. In fact, my long term project is to add another 8400 sq ft of roof area for the same, since good clean drinking water is always a scarce item in Central Texas. Not sure how things are in New Mexico for you, but I'm very interested in preserving water security for myself, especially as our aquifer isn't replenishing as fast to keep up demand.

 

[pkhoury]

A bushel of soybean is $17 so that’s $11 per gallon. You’d rather pay $11 per gallon than take a couple 20 minute breaks on a 9 hour road trip????

9 hour road trip? What are you talking about? Since you can't really tow with an EV, wouldn't that turn into a week long road trip? All the back and forth trips just to transport things you need? Like when I visit CA (like I'm planning to do next Wednesday, if my water pressure pump doesn't fail again this weekend like it did last weekend), I take a trailer with me. I suppose I could take an EV, but I'd probably need to do an extra two trips, or blow several hundred bucks sending things to myself via FedEx Ground, and then back again. And then realizing I'd need to ship some things LTL, because I couldn't bring them home without a trailer.

Also, I'm guessing that it's totally acceptable if I so wanted, to say sleep at the EV charging station, and just keep the car plugged in and the AC running for say 4-6 hours? Because depending on what I'm towing, I won't get a hotel (and all the hotels on I-10 between San Antonio and Phoenix are total crap, anyways); the dog and I will just sleep in the car. I know with my TDI, it's using about a third of a gallon an hour, give or take. I have no qualms spending about $10 in fuel (at current pricing) and another $14 for a shower at a national brand truck stop (because most of the showers at independent truck stops are BEYOND nasty!). So around $25, and I'll have left my load for what, an hour at most?

 

[Mongler98]

You can certainly connect them to an inverter and get ~1000kWh/yr but that’s only slightly more useful than harvesting an acre of soybeans. If you’re gonna put in the effort to connect 1kW might as well do 10kW and get some actual use out of the effort

Putting in 5 acres of solar pannels would cost 50x the cost of the EV alone (80k usd) just in wire alone!
Average cost per acre of solar pannels costs $450,000. So he would need a few million. Then there is about 50k a year in upkeep to mow and maintain the land and pannels out there.

I mean soy beans would take 200 years of cost to equal that bs! Its cheap...
I'm jot sure where your getting your facts... Joe Rogan or maybe some tin foil hat society? You need to seriously take 5 seconds and google some numbers before going off about how E tech is so cheep and worth the investment. On a commercial application it can be marginal to slightly profitable but it an investment.
The ones with the $ need to do the work. Eva are just advertising for the tech.... does nothing to actually help!

Btw what inverter is handling 5 acres of 351 MWh each acre... not 10k... more like 15.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, but that's gonna take a lot of used 10-20 year old solar panels, right? The other problem is where to mount them. I don't think my roofs are really catered towards mounting solar panels, but I currently use the roofs of both houses for rainwater harvesting. In fact, my long term project is to add another 8400 sq ft of roof area for the same, since good clean drinking water is always a scarce item in Central Texas. Not sure how things are in New Mexico for you, but I'm very interested in preserving water security for myself, especially as our aquifer isn't replenishing as fast to keep up demand.

I don't see why you couldn't do both. Or ground mount the panels and give some nice shaded areas for your livestock to enjoy. If I was going to be drinking roof water, I'd prefer it coming off of glass panels to asphalt shingles or galvanized metal.

 

[pkhoury]

I don't see why you couldn't do both. Or ground mount the panels and give some nice shaded areas for your livestock to enjoy. If I was going to be drinking roof water, I'd prefer it coming off of glass panels to asphalt shingles or galvanized metal.

No asphalt here, anywhere. I don't know if it's galvanized or what material, but it goes through 3 stages of filtration and a UV light before it reaches my lips.

 

[turbobrick240]

No asphalt here, anywhere. I don't know if it's galvanized or what material, but it goes through 3 stages of filtration and a UV light before it reaches my lips.

My godparents built a very nice home on the coast only to discover too much salinity in the well water after multiple well drilling attempts. They ended up putting a cistern in the basement to collect rainwater. They used it for everything except drinking/cooking. It probably would have been fine to drink with adequate treatment, but there are lots of birds along the coast.