Renewable Diesel now available in NorCal

[SFHGolfTDI]

I originally posted this in the Alternative Fuels part of the forum, but it actually is not classified as an alternative fuel and far exceeds the ASTM spec for petrodiesel, except that it is produced from renewables.

User Sangretdi just brought to my attention that Propel Fuels, a CA-based retailer of alternative fuels with a very cool business model (rents space/pumps at petroleum fueling stations), has just released a product called "Diesel HPR" in place of their B20 in Northern California. http://www.dieselhpr.com/

It exceeds ASTM D975 petroleum diesel specs and is safe for all diesel engines, including the newest. It also has a claimed 40% higher cetane and far lower emissions (40-90%) than either biodiesel or petrodiesel.

If anyone has more info, has tried it, etc., I'd love to hear some feedback. How does the price compare?

 

[SFHGolfTDI]

Found more info here http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/alternative-fuels/365693-biomass-based-diesel-vs-biodiesel.html

This stuff sounds amazing.

 

[shadowguy]

I was actually just looking into this myself. I like the biomass idea and the performance characteristics, my only concern is its lubricity as I'd like to keep my AHU's injection pump going as long as possible. I've been using their B20 up til now but looks like the Propel stations seem to be converting to the HPR formula - maybe it's finally time to crack open my Power Service...

 

[wakdady]

i just got my first tank full of the HPR. can't comment on it yet, however, I'd love to see the production process of this stuff

 

[blujett2.0]

Very intriguing! I too would love to look closer into how they're producing it. The OP at peachparts did mention it seems to have less lubricity but that could be solved with additives I'm sure.

 

[Lightflyer1]

But the greater than 600 HFRR wear scar rating is scary (unadditized). I would definitely use a lubricity additive with it until they release pump lubricity results. Very clean! Our DPF's would last forever.

 

[romad]

Bummer. Just checked for Propel outlets up here in NorCal; none to be found. ALL of their outlets are in Central California: Sacramento Metro, SF Bay, and Fresno areas.

Edit. Just downloaded the Propel app for my iPhone. Since I'm down in Sacramento once a month, I may try to do my monthly fill ups down there.

 

[romad]

But the greater than 600 HFRR wear scar rating is scary (unadditized). I would definitely use a lubricity additive with it until they release pump lubricity results. Very clean! Our DPF's would last forever.

Supposedly that is why it is only 98% Biomass Diesel; the other 2% is lubricity additive.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I understood that. The fuel that Hyperfuels sold used to be that way as well. I would want the HFFR to be much lower than the standard calls for though.

 

[romad]

I emailed Propel asking them what is the rating. If they say 520, then I guess we'll just have to still use an additive.

 

[Lightflyer1]

I would add lubricity till I thought it was under 400.

 

[Joeym4692]

I wish options like this were available in Pennsylvania. I would try it out on my car. Even if I had to put some additive in the tank.

 

[ezshift5]

.......website indicates Propel B20 available 5 miles away from me......plan to visit and check the price..........

ez

 

[romad]

I would add lubricity till I thought it was under 400.

What formula would you use to calculate that assuming the fuel already has a rating of 520?

 

[Lightflyer1]

That would be the unscientific formula of when "I thought" it was okay. Probably add some B100 to get to B5/10.

 

[SFHGolfTDI]

I just read on the peach parts thread that mixing FAME biodiesel with Hydro-treated renewable diesel does not work very well: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/3444532-post20.html, though this may not be as much of an issue with mixing in the fuel tank. These guidelines seem more geared toward fuel storage.

 

[torman]

I called them and asked for the details on lubricity and if they added anything to their fuel to deal with that .... the person I was directed to had no knowledge and it has been over a week with no information provided via return call or email. All reviews of this fuel clearly indicates lubricity being a limiting factor for reliable use in most diesel engines. I would think they would have addressed it, but no specific data yet. I will post if I hear anything.

 

[puntmeister]

Pretty interesting stuff.

From an environmental stand-point, the only gripe is the apparent high use of Palm oil in the production of this fuel.

Similar to biodiesel, it seems it could be made with any veg oil input. Would love to see the US biodiesel producers try this method (although I do understand its patented).

 

[romad]

I had to run down to Roseville today and there is a Propel outlet near where I was going. I thought I'd stop and top off with this new fuel. OK, I arrive, there are signs saying DieselHPR, and yellow tape around the Propel island. The pumps were all out of order! Wonder if the problems were caused by the new fuel?

 

[SFHGolfTDI]

I had to run down to Roseville today and there is a Propel outlet near where I was going. I thought I'd stop and top off with this new fuel. OK, I arrive, there are signs saying DieselHPR, and yellow tape around the Propel island. The pumps were all out of order! Wonder if the problems were caused by the new fuel?

Or it could be they were just empty? Too bad. I'd love to hear more feedback on this stuff.

 

[romad]

No, because they were actually working on them. I couldn't tell if the island had an E85 pump but if it did, that pump was blocked off also (probably to keep the island clear while they worked on the pumps).

 

[shadowguy]

They might have just been getting it ready for the new fuel. I took a look at their website and they still list all the pumps up there as being B20 only.

Haven't seen the pumps in San Jose closed like that, right now I'm on my first fillup with this fuel. No problems so far, I did notice I'm at 2-3 MPG less than I used to be but that might have been going on before the fillup. It's definitely smoking less than it used to.

 

[romad]

On Friday the 27th, I went down to Sacramento to do my mom's taxes and enroute I topped off at the Broadway Street outlet. 8 gallons @ $2.999. This Thursday, I'm going down again and will try to fill up at the Folsom Blvd/Howe Ave outlet; I'll probably be closer to my normal 15 gallon fill-up.

 

[sangretdi]

i've run 2 full tanks of the propel hpr and my car seems to like it fine so far. i feel there is a subtle difference, slightly smoother idle and a bit more power. though, my car has always had days were performance fluctuates regardless of fuel type (d2, b99, b20) so maybe it's just been a good couple weeks : )

price is $2.99 in san jose.



btw, those that like free schwag... i requested stickers online and they sent me a nice little packet...

 

[SFHGolfTDI]

i've run 2 full tanks of the propel hpr and my car seems to like it fine so far. i feel there is a subtle difference, slightly smoother idle and a bit more power. though, my car has always had days were performance fluctuates regardless of fuel type (d2, b99, b20) so maybe it's just been a good couple weeks : )

Sangretdi, have you kept your eye on your IP? I heard one other biodiesel user sprung a leak shortly after switching.

 

[DoubleReflex]

Sangretdi, have you kept your eye on your IP? I heard one other biodiesel user sprung a leak shortly after switching.

Add me to the list of a leaky injector pump. I have always filled up at propel with b20 since they've carried it. I filled up with HPR for the first time last fill-up. 220 miles into the tank, fuel is pouring, not dripping, from the injector head gasket. I had no leaks, AT ALL, before using this fuel. I only have 81,000 miles on this car, and I don't believe it is just coincidence.

I guess I'll also post this in the other HPR thread.

 

[SFHGolfTDI]

It would be very helpful if those who are experiencing leaks can also report whether they have ever had a new or rebuilt pump and how many miles or how many miles on their current IP.

 

[romad]

On Feb 27th I put in 8 gallons of this then on March 12th, I filled up again with 14 gallons. I figure that I had about a 50/50 mix of HPR and D2 for the two weeks; after the fill on the 12th, I have about 6.25% of D2. I did put in my normal 5oz of PS Silver but once I finish the PS I'll be trying Stanadyne's Lubricity product. Oh, a new tandem pump was installed last year.

 

[WeLikeBlue]

Romad, what kinds of changes in performance have you noticed (if any)? I filled up at Broadway also a couple of weeks ago and the price hasn't changed since then

 

[romad]

Not much so far as the first fill was only a half tank, and I just did the second fill 3 days ago. However, saving 20 - 30 cents per gallon can be considered "improving performance"!

Th first fill (8gal) was at the Broadway location; last Thursday was at the Folsom/Power Inn location. It was $2.899 at the latter station.