Rebuilding tdi starter how-to

[Mozambiquer]

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[Makerj101]

Great thread guys. I'm poking around here because I'm having starter issues. Turn the key, click, nothing. Sometimes holding the key for a few seconds and it starts. Most of the time i quickly partway jog the clutch a few times just to disengage and engage the clutch switch and then it'll start. Cycling the key works to the same effect. Initially, I thought it might be the clutch switch or key but since I think I can hear the solenoid clicking... So guessing brushes or solenoid contacts are starting to go. Does that sound right? It looks like I have the Valeo starter. I can't seem to find a rebuild kit for it. Can you help me out with that? 2003 Jetta wagon ALH manual transmission. Thank you, -Joachim

 

[Mozambiquer]

Great thread guys. I'm poking around here because I'm having starter issues. Turn the key, click, nothing. Sometimes holding the key for a few seconds and it starts. Most of the time i quickly partway jog the clutch a few times just to disengage and engage the clutch switch and then it'll start. Cycling the key works to the same effect. Initially, I thought it might be the clutch switch or key but since I think I can hear the solenoid clicking... So guessing brushes or solenoid contacts are starting to go. Does that sound right? It looks like I have the Valeo starter. I can't seem to find a rebuild kit for it. Can you help me out with that? 2003 Jetta wagon ALH manual transmission. Thank you, -Joachim

I would verify that your battery is good first, as the Valeo ones, when the battery is bad, they'll often have that symptom. If it is good, I would also verify the battery connections and if so, it's the starter.
I can get the parts for them, though they're not as easy to rebuild. They require the brushes to be soldered or resistance welded in. The nice thing with them is that you can get most of the parts in Valeo brand.
I stock the new Valeo starters as well.

 

[Makerj101]

How does one verify that the battery is good? It is about 3 years old. I've run it flat a few times. Once when the coolant glow plug relay failed and another two or three times when I forgot the headlights on. So I'm sure that's not good for it. But it still seems to start okay in the cold. Would the voltage be down or do I need to have a shop do a current test on it? I did inspect the connections the other day and I thought everything looks tight and really clean. I'll pull them off and clean them to be sure. I love soldering so that won't be a problem for me! If it gives you some idea of the crazy things I took apart and successfully reassembled... I partly took apart my injection pump and soldered the connections back together. How much for the brushes and solenoid contacts?

 

[Mozambiquer]

How does one verify that the battery is good? It is about 3 years old. I've run it flat a few times. Once when the coolant glow plug relay failed and another two or three times when I forgot the headlights on. So I'm sure that's not good for it. But it still seems to start okay in the cold. Would the voltage be down or do I need to have a shop do a current test on it? I did inspect the connections the other day and I thought everything looks tight and really clean. I'll pull them off and clean them to be sure. I love soldering so that won't be a problem for me! If it gives you some idea of the crazy things I took apart and successfully reassembled... I partly took apart my injection pump and soldered the connections back together. How much for the brushes and solenoid contacts?

To verify the health of the battery, you'll need to do a load test on it. There are simple testers you can get, or most auto parts stores have free battery testing.
The solenoids on these aren't easily serviceable, as they're a crimped top solenoid, and the brushes are replaceable, but I don't stock them, since the whole brush holder isn't much more expensive and you don't have the plastic that's breaking down.
I sell the full kit including the solenoid, brush holder kit and both end bushings for $45 plus shipping, or can sell individual pieces as well.

 

[Bengoshi2000]

I'm having the exact same "no start" condition as MakerJ101. Turn the key, all dash lights illuminate as normal, then nothing. No click, just silence. Cycle the key. Nothing. Then if I hold the key in "start" for 5-10 seconds, she starts. I replaced the el-cheapo ignition switch I put in about two years ago (with genuine VW/Audi) as I was convinced that was the problem. (I'd previously replaced the battery with genuine VW. Got the battery and alternator load tested and both passed.) Been fine for a couple days but... the temps dipped down into the teens again last night and she was back to the "hold me close tiny dancer" start condition. Battery and starter connections "look" ok, but I'm going to pull and clean them all up. After that, I suppose I'm looking at a starter?

 

[Mozambiquer]

I'm having the exact same "no start" condition as MakerJ101. Turn the key, all dash lights illuminate as normal, then nothing. No click, just silence. Cycle the key. Nothing. Then if I hold the key in "start" for 5-10 seconds, she starts. I replaced the el-cheapo ignition switch I put in about two years ago (with genuine VW/Audi) as I was convinced that was the problem. (I'd previously replaced the battery with genuine VW. Got the battery and alternator load tested and both passed.) Been fine for a couple days but... the temps dipped down into the teens again last night and she was back to the "hold me close tiny dancer" start condition. Battery and starter connections "look" ok, but I'm going to pull and clean them all up. After that, I suppose I'm looking at a starter?

I would verify that there is 12 volts to the solenoid start terminal with the key in the start position, but you are possibly looking at worn brushes and solenoid. Often the no click can be brushes, as it needs that load on the solenoid to pull it down. If you simply put power and ground to a starter solenoid, it won't actuate unless you give it a shove or ground the motor stud.

 

[hskrdu]

Mozam- Thanks for the thread, pictures, and how-to. Not sure how I missed it previously. We have 2 MkIV's with the typical short grinding sound after start-up, and I've wanted to fix it myself, but had been putting it off...

 

[2004LB7]

just going to add a quick tip for anyone opening up their starter.

before removing the brush holder assembly, take note of the slot that the holder is inserted into the rubber seal. there is two positions that the holder can be inserted into on the rubber part that bias' the direction of maximum torque. put it in the wrong slot on your starter may be weaker and appear to be bad. this also may be difficult to do as the screws on the back that hold the brush holder in place will likely not line up

also, another tip for reassembling the brushes into the holder and installing it onto the commutator is to use the largest socket that can fit into the center of the brush holder to hold the bushes back. then place the socket and holder over the commutator and careful slide the brushes down onto the commutator

 

[Makerj101]

To verify the health of the battery, you'll need to do a load test on it. There are simple testers you can get, or most auto parts stores have free battery testing.
The solenoids on these aren't easily serviceable, as they're a crimped top solenoid, and the brushes are replaceable, but I don't stock them, since the whole brush holder isn't much more expensive and you don't have the plastic that's breaking down.
I sell the full kit including the solenoid, brush holder kit and both end bushings for $45 plus shipping, or can sell individual pieces as well.

Thank you for the parts quote and troubleshooting help. I ended up swinging by the auto parts store to have the battery tested. His tester only read about 40 cranking amps and the battery voltage dropped off really low. He was astounded that it even started which I demonstrated several times. Decided to replace the battery on the spot. Guess what!? I haven't had the problem since! Something funky must have been going on with the plates in that battery.

 

[Mozambiquer]

When I first made this thread, I didn't get any good photos of replacing the drive, as it was a difficult procedure and I didn't take any photos. Well, I was rebuilding one and remembered that, so I took some photos.
Kudos to you if you can do this job... It's not easy. I've done it many times and it has gotten a bit easier, but it's still not easy.

First step is to have your safety glasses on and disassemble the starter as in the how to post.. Then you'll need to clamp the drive in a vice like this:

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• Mozambiquer
• Apr 26, 2022

Use a small screwdriver or pick to get under the edge of the cover and pry it off

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• Mozambiquer
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See how the retainer fits in there?

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• Mozambiquer
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Now, support the planetary shaft with something like a socket and take an 8mm socket and tap the retainer washer down to disengage the clip

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• Mozambiquer
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Use a small snap ring pliers to spread the clip and then use a small screwdriver or pick to carefully pry the clip out. (Be careful that it doesn't fly away)

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• Mozambiquer
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You can now disassemble the drive assembly and see how the retainer works.

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• Mozambiquer
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Clean it up and on to reassembly

 

[Mozambiquer]

To reassemble, I wish it were just as simple as saying reassemble in reverse order, but this is the hardest part...
Get your new Bosch drive and slide it on. I use a little bit of lithium grease to help lube it a bit.

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• Mozambiquer
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Install the retainer washer and set the clip on.. Use a 7mm socket and tap the clip on to the end of the shaft.

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• Mozambiquer
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Use a small screwdriver or pick and push it down until it seats into the groove on the shaft

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• Mozambiquer
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• Mozambiquer
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Lightly clamp the drive in the vice with the bottom of the drive supported by the jaws, like so:

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• Mozambiquer
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• Mozambiquer
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Here's my custom made tool for seating the ring. It really made it so much easier. It's made from a piece of 1/8" npt pipe nipple and a piece of 5/16 steel rod. I ground down the outside of the nipple so it would fit inside of the drive, then tapered the end to seat the clip.

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• Mozambiquer
• Apr 26, 2022

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• Mozambiquer
• Apr 26, 2022

Insert the pipe and tap it down. Hold pressure down while you drop the rod in and then tap the rod. It may seat, or may not, may take several tries... This is the hardest part.

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• Mozambiquer
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Slap the cap back on, if it's not ruined. Or you can use a 9/16" freeze plug and make a new cap.
Viola, you have now passed the test!
Drink some tea and chill... Oh wait, you still need to put the rest of the starter together! We're not done!

 

[noob_tl]

To reassemble, I wish it were just as simple as saying reassemble in reverse order, but this is the hardest part...

Heed this. Getting that wire ring seated is a royal PITA, and if it gets deformed at all it will have to be fixed or it will never go in. You will have to fabricate tools for this job. It took me several hours spread out over a few days, and that was after Mozambiquer's excellent advice. Do not attempt within earshot of women or children! At least I now have a spare starter in case I need it again.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Heed this. Getting that wire ring seated is a royal PITA, and if it gets deformed at all it will have to be fixed or it will never go in. You will have to fabricate tools for this job. It took me several hours spread out over a few days, and that was after Mozambiquer's excellent advice. Do not attempt within earshot of women or children! At least I now have a spare starter in case I need it again.

I'm glad you got it in! They are one of the biggest pains on these.

 

[Beaker80]

Question on the amount of grease to use in the planetary gear system. My starter came off my 2006 BEW 5 speed Golf TDI. When I stripped it there was little to no grease left after 300k km's. I've seen rebuilds that go from very little grease to a fully packed planet gear case. The answer has to be somewhere in-between? I'm using one of Seth's rebuild kits with the solenoid, brush assy and front bushing. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Question on the amount of grease to use in the planetary gear system. My starter came off my 2006 BEW 5 speed Golf TDI. When I stripped it there was little to no grease left after 300k km's. I've seen rebuilds that go from very little grease to a fully packed planet gear case. The answer has to be somewhere in-between? I'm using one of Seth's rebuild kits with the solenoid, brush assy and front bushing. Thanks in advance.

I put around a nickle size glob in the planetary gears.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

the back half of both starters is the same, the housing and drive are different from the automatic to manual, so you can swap the back half and solenoid are the same from one to the other, and I think, though I haven't tried it myself, you may be able to use the back from an automatic and the front from even a gasser manual, but I've not personally tried that. Maybe I'll get a couple and play with them.

Couple questions, after re-reading the above:

1. Did you ever get around to trying this (combining an automatic housing/drive with the "back end" of a manual starter)?

2. Does a gasser 01M use the same starter as a TDI, or is there some internal difference similar to the gasser/TDI gearing difference?

3. Are the housings/drives for automatic starters still obtainable as parts?


Was reminded of my starter episode a couple weeks back - the main braid fell off, my mechanic was going to just put a new one on given mileage (493K, original starter), but was unable to source a new one. Fortunately mine was still in good shape at 493K miles (even the brushes, apparently) and he just had to solder the braid back on to get me back on the road.

Considering the number of 01M cars still out on the roads vs. manual ones, I am now thinking this might have contributed to my mechanic not being able to source a replacement. If the "splicing" scheme described above works, that does open up options for the remaining 01M cars...

 

[Beaker80]

I put around a nickle size glob in the planetary gears.

That sounds more realistic than completely filling the cavity. Thanks. All the internals that I'm keeping look good. Even the brushes didn't look too worn but they will be replaced.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Couple questions, after re-reading the above:

1. Did you ever get around to trying this (combining an automatic housing/drive with the "back end" of a manual starter)?

2. Does a gasser 01M use the same starter as a TDI, or is there some internal difference similar to the gasser/TDI gearing difference?

3. Are the housings/drives for automatic starters still obtainable as parts?


Was reminded of my starter episode a couple weeks back - the main braid fell off, my mechanic was going to just put a new one on given mileage (493K, original starter), but was unable to source a new one. Fortunately mine was still in good shape at 493K miles (even the brushes, apparently) and he just had to solder the braid back on to get me back on the road.

Considering the number of 01M cars still out on the roads vs. manual ones, I am now thinking this might have contributed to my mechanic not being able to source a replacement. If the "splicing" scheme described above works, that does open up options for the remaining 01M cars...

Hey, thanks for the followup on this.
1. The auto and manual tdi rear housings and all are the same, except the oem auto transmission brush holder lead is shorter. I use the manual transmission brush holder for both the auto and manual ones when I rebuild them though.
2. No, the gasser o1m starter is lower powered, it's a 1.1 kw and the housing is smaller diameter.
The housings and drives are available for the auto ones still, though some of the parts are getting harder to find.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Thanks for the info, good to know. I will keep this information handy in case I ever need it down the line.

 

[caffeine]

Bit more info on auto vs manual starter parts, I discovered the other day in the junkyard that the back half of a BRM auto starter could be combined with the front half and solenoid of a Mk4 2.0L 5-speed starter to create a Mk4 TDI manual starter (also tested working well). The Mk5 TDI starters have a smaller O.D. housing than the Mk4 TDI starters, and it happens to match up perfectly with a Mk4 2.0L housing. Side note, the Mk5 2.5L starters have an even smaller diameter housing, so they cannot be used to create a Mk5 style TDI manual starter.