Rebuild will not start HELP!

[jeepinblackdog]

2003 jetta TDI alh motor, New block, new head, new pistons and rods, new turbo, new injectors, Had Crankshaft checked for straigtness and journals turned to insure staightness. (overside bearings on crank bearings). Have fuel to the injectors, Checked static timing 3 times, everything hooked up, double checked wiring. It ran until the #3 rod broke and took out both sides of the block, hence reason for rebuild. 230k miles on injection pump.</P>
With that said, It cranks over but will not fire at all, The car sat approx. 4 months without the motor or battery in it. When i got everything hooked up, I mighty vaced the pump at the return line till I had fuel comming out. loosened the injectors and it cranked over maybe 10 times and I had fuel at the injectors. When I turn the key on a light comes on that looks like a car with a key stuck on it (Security maybe) but it goes out when I crank the engine over and doesnt come back on. Any help would be appricated asap. Have it on my lift and need to get it off!

 

[miningman]

ASV stuck in shut position???

 

[sisyphus]

That's the immobilizer, that light. It will act up if the battery is weak.
On edit: I had a car with a bad fan control unit that would set off the immobilizer, too. But those symptoms were pretty wacky, all the lights on the dash would come on and off at random times, etc.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

What is the ASV?

 

[jeepinblackdog]

Battery is fully charged

 

[miningman]

Its the valve in the intake system that goes to the closed position when you turn off the ignition , choking off the air supply to the engine. Hence if its stuck shut ( and it does happen) no air , no combustion , no start condition.

 

[steve6]

asv is the valve over by the EGR

 

[sisyphus]

Yeah, if you plumbed the ASV backwards (the vacuum lines) the ASV won't open when you're trying to crank it over. Definitely check that.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

Has an egr delete done, but I dont have a shutoff valve on the alh motor that I know of. just looked and it is open from the filter box to the turbo......

 

[steve6]

I would double check the timing, there is times when people use the wrong hole on the injection pump, often referred to as a 'dummy hole'. It puts the pump outta time, you can search for more info on this forum.

are you getting a glow plug light when you turn the key on?

 

[jeepinblackdog]

yes I did double check the timing hole in the pump, It was in the hole not the slot. Yes the glow plug light comes on and the off. its over 40 degrees so it doesnt stay on.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

Will that immolizer code cause it not to start or just start and shut off?

 

[sisyphus]

It would start for a second, maybe two at most, then shut off. There's no chance you have a rag stuck in the intake path anywhere, right?
Does this car have a racepipe?
On edit: The ASV is the chunky aluminum thing toward the back of the engine with a disc-shaped thing on top. The black rubber intake hose that goes next to the timing belt cover is connected to it on one side, it is in turn bolted to the neck of the intake manifold. When you turn the key off, a vacuum signal pulls the butterfly valve inside of it closed, shutting off the air intake. Once the car is stopped (shut off, that is) it opens up again. If the vacuum lines are routed incorrectly this will stay closed.
If you disconnect the black hose and look in there while someone cranks over the engine, you should see that this butterfly valve is open. If it isn't, that's your problem.

 

[sisyphus]

Odd that you're seeing the light for the immobilizer, though. IIRC the key fob sends a signal to the ECU when it's in the ignition, so the key is recognized and the car starts. It only works when it's within a foot of the steering wheel or something like that. I only have one car with the immobilizer ('01 was the first year) and it only gave me problems one time, so I can't be much help there.

 

[oldpoopie]

If it was immo problem the car would start and a second later shut off.

 

[oldpoopie]

If you have fuel at injectors, and compression is good, then it HAS to be timing.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

I have a race pipe and a egr delete so I dont have the shutoff valve. I have fuel at the injectors. no rags in the pipes.Going to check compression next. I didnt put the crank, pistons or head on, another shop did that. everything else I put on and I timed it, I have the shim that goes in the cam shaft and the pin for the injection pump and I had the pin in the hole not the slot on the pump shaft. I have checked the timing. After I tensioned the timing belt hand cranked it 2 revolutions and rechecked the mark on the flywheel I was about a tooth off on the flywheel. That little bit should not cause it to start should it?

 

[Ruairí]

Shouldn't cause a no start being a tiny bit off at the crank. I always seem to have to turn the crank back a touch after tensioning the belt and before removing cam and pump lock tools. The crank always moves a touch when tensioning belt.

So tension belt, check crank and get spot on again if it moved, then lock down pump and cam sprockets, remove lock tools and turn over and re-check.

 

[sisyphus]

If it was immo problem the car would start and a second later shut off.

Why would he be seeing the light then? I don't get it.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

So I checked commpression #1 395 #2 395 #3 400 #4 400 I would have thought it would be a little higher but they are new pistions and rings. Left the injectors hooked up and getting fuel out of all cylinders.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

Going to check timing again.....

 

[sisyphus]

If you didn't put the head on, how do you know the cam timing is on? First two lobes on the LH side should be making like a "V" at tdc, #1.

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

If you didn't put the head on, how do you know the cam timing is on? First two lobes on the LH side should be making like a "V" at tdc, #1.

Good call. ^^^
The camshaft could be 180 degrees off.

 

[whitedog]

How much fuel are you getting at the injectors? A dribble or a squirt?

Also after sitting for too long, sometimes the ECU has a brain fart and needs a reboot. I have the procedure someplace but you need VCDS to do it.

 

[Ski in NC]

1. Make sure cam lobes for #1 cyl are not opening the valves there at tdc. #1 being farthest cyl from flywheel. Lobes on #4 cyl should be partially on the cam followers.

2. Timing pin hole is at 12 oclock relative to pump body. If not at 12 oclock, you are not in pin hole.

3. After extended cranking, if system is fueling but fuel not igniting, there should be white vapor out the tailpipe. No vapor means no fuel being injected.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

The timing was off by 2 teeth on the flywheel, Went back thru the timing process and engine started and ran. I set the flywheel 2 teeth back before tensioning belt and it was dead on after tensioning. Thanks for all the info. oldpoopy you were right! I have a vagcom and cleared all the codes. no lights on. I have about 70 miles on it. set the injection timing to just below upper limit on graph and I have the IQ set at 4.2 at idle. It smokes a lot (white) at cold startup and idles rough for first 30 seconds. Any thoughts on that? What is the best IQ setting to get power and fuel sipping for an alh with a vn17 turbo and 1019 injector tips?

 

[oldpoopie]

Hopefully you didnt hit valves to pistons with that incorrect cam to crank timing......

 

[Vince Waldon]

White smoke is generally unburnt diesel... which is generally retarded timing or low compression. If you have ruled out timing....compression test might be a good next step.

 

[jeepinblackdog]

Rechecked compression this morning and all cylinders are around 420. When I check it right after rebuild before I got it started it they were around 390 to 400. 420 shoudl be good for a new rebuilt motor with 70 miles on it, righ? any openions on what the IQ should be set at with the bigger turbo and 1019 injectors?

 

[miningman]

Not wanting to hijack this thread , but as a colollary query , how does one reset the IQ?? I have a good running 2003 tdi with stage 1 Malone with the IQ at 2.2.... some light smoke which I could do without. Fuel consumption is 45-48 mpg, which I cant complain about but this is Canadian gallons which of course are 25% bigger than US gallons so the reported 50 mpg from US users gets my attention. I believe something in the range 3.5 -5.0 might be worth trying