Rear Pads - 2001MY Golf - 38000 km!

[chopchop]

Geez, VW's dealer service stinks even more than I'd ever imagined.......

Daughter's Nov. 2000 Golf TDi....

Driven carefully by her for 38000km - on previous cars she's had, Rover Metros etc, I'd never had to replace rear shoes or front pads at 50000 miles (m not km...) when we sold the vehicles.

Her Golf went in to the dealer - S Centre Fine Cars here in Calgary (Yes, I'm naming names...

), after the guy at KalTire, when he changed her wheels over for winter, noticed that the rear pads were almost worn out. S Centre examine it, agree pads are worn out, then try to tell her bill for new pads & rotors is going to be nearly $400 Cdn. I said, "... not bloody likely".

Car had gone in for a service (???) at 33000 km, nothing noticed or commented upon. Car taken back for brake fluid flush just before warranty end, just 6 weeks ago. Dealer told then by daughter that rear brake(s) seemed to be binding and squeak was noticeable. "That's quite normal" was reply, "...most of them do that..." BS.....

Interesting that just 6 weeks and 1500km later, they suddenly find a chargeable item which will cost $400 to deal with.

So, at that point, I enter the discussion, service guy admits such a vehicle shouldn't need this sort of thing at 6 weeks over warranty, with less than warranty mileage (40000km) accumulated, but says VW won't pay, I can contact VWoA myself if I'm not happy. He says caliper slides are corroded and sticking.... So I suggest to him, in words of one syllable, that this is his responsibility to attempt to deal with with VW, as if caliper slides are sticking at this tender age, either the materials of construction are unfit for the application, and/or calipers were never greased at the factory as they should have been, &/or VW's pads are crap. Either way, it's a VW problem. The VW guy won't be visiting for a while, etc. so I say he'd better visit soon.

Anyway, I then asked for a breakdown of the $370 ...:

Pads (rear only)... $102 (Premium ones are $55 at CanTire, standard ones, which I suspect is all VW use, are $24 at CT.....)
Rotors (NON-VW !!!!) $ 95
Rest Labour.........

So a 2-year old VW car needs new rotors and pads at 38000km, and VW is in no way responsible??? Bollocks!!!!

Anyway, those shysters had to spend about 1.5 non-chargeable hours examining the car and dealing with her and me, at the end of which I told them their ideas on customer service were shameful, and I'd be doing the work myself, and that's the last bloody time they'll EVER have any vehicle of ours in there for anything.

These guys must think we're all a bunch of buffoons, with open credit cards. If they'd had the decency to try and make me pay just for pads, even at that low mileage and their exorbitant dealer spares prices, I might well have stomached it, but expecting us to fork out $400 under such circumstances is a sick joke.

I see from another post today that VW DO have a problem with Pads on 2000/2001 Golfs......

- Richard

PS - Apparently VW discs are not skimmable anyway, as they warp.......?

[ January 03, 2003, 07:25: Message edited by: chopchop ]

 

[Snowman]

Yes, it is a known problem. I have the official VW Technical Service Bulletin if you want to have it. Print it out, take it in, or call and say you have it in your hand. That tends to get results.

 

[chopchop]

Thanks, Snowman, that's SERVICE!!!!

Yes, I'd love to have it, please! If you can scan & e-mail, please, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks again,

- Richard

 

[speedrcr]

Sounds like this dealer is trying to rip you off. I got 45k miles out of my pads before they wore out, bought new ones from the dealer for $55. Also, did they mic. the rotors to check wear limits? New is 9mm thick, with a wear limit of 7mm (0.276 in.), mine was still at 8mm with 45k. Wish I'd looked for some Ceramic pads though, it would help keep the wheels clean.

Here's a breakdown if your gonna do it yourself, you'll also need the tool to get the caliper piston back in, (turns and pushes the piston in at the same time) I did it without the tool, but it would have been much easier with it

[ January 02, 2003, 20:20: Message edited by: speedrcr ]

 

[AutoDiesel]

We do a lot of city driving, 80% plus. Both myself and my wife drive pretty easy but our rear pads were gone at 32k miles. There was no corrosion and the pins were lubed fine.
Bought new rotors from www.tirerack.com for $31ea. and new Raybestos QuietStop pads from the local Schuck's Auto Supply for $38 and put everything on in a easy hour and a half.
No more dust and they are quiet.

 

[chopchop]

Thanks, speedrcr and others for your comments/help.

I have the cube tool - brought it with me from UK - never actually had to use it there, as none of our cars' rear brakes called for it. When servicing disc brakes, I have always applied a little copperslip grease to the caliper sliders, and have NEVER had a problem on ANY previous vehicle..

I'd still appreciate any further comments, as I don't intend to let the manner in which this was handled by the dealer end here. My own Golf is still under warranty..... How many others without our knowledge are being ripped off?

- Richard

[ January 03, 2003, 07:27: Message edited by: chopchop ]

 

[cpermd]

I think you have discovered the reason VW sales have slipped more than most companies.
Lots of people read these forums and surely somebody there does.They know how unhappy many VW owners are about "Stealership service".Nothing seems to get corrected though.
Check out the MAF,brake,intake manifold,window regulator,glovebox threads and see IF or when they were ever fixed.
Someday,Probably 2006 we will have some more choices of small diesels and the VW sales will drop because of the ****ty VW dealers and service.
Imagine a Toyota or Honda!!
cpermd

 

[suds]

Originally posted by chopchop:
... and/or calipers were never greased at the factory as they should have been,...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's what I was told happened. I was also told that service managers were told to try and push for brake service at one of the suggested service intervals (can't remember what mileage it was). I thought that that was pretty low of VW to try and get the customer to pay for something VW did wrong. Nothin' new here though - the all to frequent inattentive service from a dealership. I'm thankful I've got a good dealership out in Belleville, ON.

Good luck Richard!

 

[spoilsport]

Richard:

I'm not familiar with the cube tool. The tool for the job is either MetalNerds brake tool, or the one available from Harbor Freight that's often on loan at various retail auto part outlets.

These tools allow for the piston to be both turned and retracted (pushed in). Several have used the cube, you might try a search.

 

[Weisse Bora]

Originally posted by spoilsport:
Richard:

I'm not familiar with the cube tool. The tool for the job is either MetalNerds brake tool, or the one available from Harbor Freight that's often on loan at various retail auto part outlets.

These tools allow for the piston to be both turned and retracted (pushed in). Several have used the cube, you might try a search.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The handbrake auto-adjustment mechanism requires the piston to be turned while the pushing is to force the fluid back to the master cylinder. The problem is the turning isn't enough to force the fluid back and you have to push the cube tool while turning it...something a little difficult.

Here's a tip. The tool (Lisle tool makes them) uses a 3/8" square ratchet drive. Make an adapter from 3/8" square bar with an end turned down to 3/8" round. Chuck this in a drill and go to town as its easier to push and turn. The tool should not be used in an impact wrench so be careful. Its also quite quick so use a variable speed drill.

 

[speedrcr]

The problem with the cube is you can't get enough pressure to push the piston in while turning. Local parts store's around here will loan the tool for free, you just have to leave a refundable deposit.

The first one I did I used a C-Clamp to push in on the piston while turning.

 

[cpermd]

Anybody supply a Harbor Freight tool #??
cpermd

 

[chopchop]

I borrowed the proper piston retraction tool from my local CanTire this afternoon (that cube thing was useless...), so progress tomorrow, but I believe that the only lasting solution to this VW manufacturing problem is to replace the caliper assembly containing the piston. Forcibly freeing up the piston if it is corroded will not prevent a recurrence, in my view.

What the dealer tried to rook my daughter for $400 to do would have done NOTHING to prevent a recurrence either, only a recurrence of the same ripoff again in another 18 months.

I tried speaking to VW Canada's so-called Customer Service today. They may as well shut it down. That setup is monumentally useless and totally incompetent. It serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE. After I had explained this was a problem with the dealer, all the stupid cow on the end of the phone did was to repeatedly refer me BACK to the dealer, trying to get me to disappear up my own a-hole.

The dealer has not returned any of my calls. My future son-in-law warned the dealer yesterday of the undesirability of having me to deal with if they didn't do the reasonable thing, so on Monday, things are going to get UGLY!

I'm not one to be ripped off. My housebuilder knows that after he tried to do it, and I took him to court, won, he appealed the decision, and he lost the appeal, too! I now have my money, and he had a nice fat legal bill.

- Richard

 

[chopchop]

Help, please!!!

Old pads off, driver's side almost down to backing plates, but not rubbing metal. Passenger side about 3 mm left. NO rotor damage Mic-ed up the rotors, one is at about 8.25mm, the passenger side one is at about 8.50mm, so plenty of meat still there.

BUT.... I use my wind-in cube and those piston plates TURN fine, but WON't retract at all. I need to push them back about 13mm at least to go over the new pads. Is this what this VW issue is all about ????

I've never before had to use this procedure, as no previous car has ever had rear discs + rear wheel handbrake operation, so I don't really know what to expect.

Thanks.....

- Richard

 

[CalgaryB5]

I quoted about the same amount from the same dealership(SFC) last time.

 

[strretch]

Originally posted by cpermd:
Anybody supply a Harbor Freight tool #??
cpermd

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Item #40732 Disc Brake Caliper Tool Set

[ January 04, 2003, 05:44: Message edited by: strretch ]

 

[chopchop]

What struck me, examining these rear calipers, is just how thick a layer of corrosive "fur" is on the damned things, so much so that it is no wonder that the piston is sticking in the internal bore, where, even with the dust cap in position, corrosion is also clearly taking place, which is presumably what is causing the calipers to stick/seize.

Just what sort of cheap sh1t metal is VW having these cast out of??? I've been servicing brakes for 30 years, and have NEVER seen a caliper on ANY vehicle covered in so much corrosion, and that's after only 2 years!!!

- Richard

 

[hl649]

ChopChop:

I just took my 01 Jetta with 64K in for rear brakes at the local dealer here in Nanaimo. Pads wore out and rotors shot. Service guys told me that they have been having quite a few cars coming in with the calipers dragging due to inadequate lubrication at the factory. The front brakes were still at 80%. They said that my rear brakes should wear at approx the same rate as the front brakes so the rears should only be 20% wore out. Their estimate for repair was $400.00 for pads and rotors. They charged me $80.00 or 20% of the cost because that is approx the wear that I should have had on my brakes at the present mileage.

A fair transaction; new pads and rotors for $80.00 + tax.

I have had other reasonably fair dealings with Harbourview Autohaus also. Too bad you are 12 hours away.

 

[doc_m]

yeah my dealership in abbotsford has been amazing, did the brakes all the way around for me under warrenty did the two front wondow regulators and also a MAF. now i am at 82,000K just did my rear pads and rotors, didn't take very long from my friend i met off here, we used to CDN loan a tool thought it was a piece, then we used the right piece, then it was a piece of cake to do it. cost me couple hundred for pagid pads and brembo rotors, all german of course

 

[GoGolfing]

My 2000 Golf TDi has 54K miles and I've noticed the rear rotors are scored a bit whilst the fronts are new condition. Rear pads will need replacement around 60K miles I figure.

Question: VW engineering says rotors should never be turned but REPLACED. Bently manual states, "when worn, always replace both sides". I agree but shouldn't the rotors be turned if you notice rotors are scored at pad replacement time?
New Rotor thickness = 9mm / Wear limit = 7mm

My inclination is to remove and turn the rotors if they are still in range and then replace the pads.

2nd question: Bently manual states "ALWAYS REPLACE THE SELF-LOCKING CALIPER MOUNTING BOLTS WITH THE ONES IN THE REPAIR KIT"

I had already ordered the pads front and rear and didn't order new bolts nor did I see them on the brake maintenance parts lists of 3 web based VW parts houses... DO I HAVE TO REPLACE THEM???

Thanks in advance!!!

p/s/ I bought Pagid pads, are there better quality ones available?

 

[chopchop]

I think I may have misinterpreted the "caliper sticking" problem as relating to the caliper piston sticking rather than the guide pins sticking.

The actual pins on my daughter's car were actually greased OK and free-moving, but obviously one must keep an eye on them and regrease as needed.

Is there an issue with caliper pistons sticking, due to corrosion / lack of smearing with grease at the assembly stage (as the manual states should be done), accepting that these things are naturally stiff to wind back, or have I been barking up the wrong tree?

I'm beginning to think that on our vehicle the only issue is actually premature brake pad wear, due to VW using pads which are unsuitable in wear terms for the application.......

Oh, and after my getting quite nasty with S Centre and VW, they now appear to be accepting the principle that this is a warranty matter which should be dealt with at no charge to us....

Why do these dealers and VW come out with such a load of BS, lies and ripoffs?

- Richard

 

[chopchop]

Originally posted by GoGolfing:
DO I HAVE TO REPLACE THEM???...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think this is one of these situations where a manufacturer tries to cover his own ar$e by stating that they should be replaced every time. Personally, I have changed pads on countless vehicles over the years, but have NEVER replaced the retaining bolts, as these are not highly torqued components.

Having said that, I'd be tempted to replace them after several pad replacements as a matter of principle.

- Richard

PS - The VW rear rotors are only a max of 9 mm thick to start with, so once they need skimming, and you skim them, you're not likely to have much more than 7 mm anyway. The justification for the statement that they should not be skimmed is, in my view, sensible, and anyway, rotors (even the dealers use non-VW ones for cost reasons....) aren't that expensive anyway.

My advice is: Don't even be tempted to skim them.

[ January 10, 2003, 10:28: Message edited by: chopchop ]