Rear LCA Bolt/Nut Seized: Heat? Sawzall? Something Else?

Lex4TDI4Life

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
TDI
2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
I am replacing virtually my entire suspension and have hit a sticking point (literally) with the passenger-side lower control arm. Specifically, the bolt/nut for the rear bushing will not budge. I have tried penetrant, electric impact, breaker bar - nothing. I am going to let it sit with penetrant for another 24 hours to see if that does anything. Assuming it does not, what would y'all do next? I could try hitting it with propane, but am worried about the presence of brake and fuel lines somewhat close by. Plus, the chance of melting/burning rubber from the bushing itself is not ideal. Alternatively, I could try taking a sawzall to the bolt, but I am not a big fan of that option either.

Am I missing an option?

TIA,
lex
 

Nuje

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Location
Island near Vancouver
TDI
2002 Golf 6MT; 2015 Sportwagen 6MT; 2016 A3 e-tron 6DSG
The obvious solution to me is "more/bigger". :D

Penetrant, some heat, let it sit, and then if the impact doesn't work, I'd find a bigger/stronger impact gun.
Hit it in the "tightening" direction a few times. Then try loosening again. Then tighten, then loosen.

If you can't get your hands on a 1400ft.lb. impact gun (my problem solver of choice :) ).... if you're trying a 2ft. breaker bar, figure out how to get a 6ft. breaker bar (6ft. length of pipe over whatever your strongest socket holder is works).
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
Rust belt resident here. I've had better luck with an air impact on 150psi versus my big ass 1/2" cordless DeWalt. Or cut an access window in the subframe and apply heat direct to the welded nut.
 

Lex4TDI4Life

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Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
TDI
2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
Thanks, both! I am not thrilled with gathering more equipment, and I do not have a compressor set up. I might see if I can rent a more powerful electric impact. Also, this is the rear/vertical bolt, so fortunately I will not have to cut into the subframe.
 

Genesis

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Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
I've got the BIG Ryobi electric impact and it gets through things that laugh at the littler ones (like pinion nuts on a rear diff.) Try to find someone with either one of those or one of the beefy Milwaukee ones that will let you borrow it for 5 minutes.
 

KrashDH

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Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Lots of soaking and hit it with a powerful rattler.
If it's really that stuck, you do not want to try to spin it off with a breaker bar. If you do that constant force and twisting action you're more likely to shear the head off then you are really Sol
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4's and the Cummins
I have had no issue breaking the head "CLEAN OFF" with my Milwaukee when dealing with half inch and 12mm fasteners. The PITA is here, the shank is likely very thoroughly attached to the AL center of the rear LCA bushing...IOW, twisting the head off might not buy very much at first.

Now once headless you might be able to beat it upwards enough to saw off the nut( as there is I believe a bit of a length restriction involved with trying to put the bolt in from the top ).

I use a box wrench with a dog leg in the handle to get after the nut. Perhaps focus on removing the nut first?

Douglas
 

KrashDH

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Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
If it's frozen to the bushing, skip the rest and get the sawzall out. No amount of beating will likely move that bolt if it's welded itself to the full length of the bushing with corrosion. I've tried most ways in this type of situation with larger bolts than on these cars and it's ended with me submitting to the sawzall method
 

Lex4TDI4Life

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Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
TDI
2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
If it's frozen to the bushing, skip the rest and get the sawzall out. No amount of beating will likely move that bolt if it's welded itself to the full length of the bushing with corrosion. I've tried most ways in this type of situation with larger bolts than on these cars and it's ended with me submitting to the sawzall method
I am suspecting this is where I will end up at this point. I am guessing this would mean two cuts, one on either side of the bushing inside the subframe?
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2015
Location
Appleton, WI
TDI
2005 Golf TDI
Yep, also been there, and the only solution was to slowly Dremel off the bolt. Takes a while since you have to be very careful not to accidentally cut into the subframe. Another one of those "easy tasks" that turns into a multi-hour ordeal!
 
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Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Yep, also been there, and the only solution was to slowly Dremel off the bolt. Takes a while since you have to be very careful not to accidentally cut into the subframe. Another one of those "easy tasks" that turns into a multi-hour ordeal!
Whenever the Mrs. asks me how long a job will take me on a car, I always tell her double my real estimate. Because stuff like this and rust. And the longer estimate is the correct one at least half the time….

How would one try to sawzall that bolt with a solid TT bushing? I’d think you’d need to use an angle grinder to cut off the head then use a drift & bfh to drive it out.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Whenever the Mrs. asks me how long a job will take me on a car, I always tell her double my real estimate. Because stuff like this and rust. And the longer estimate is the correct one at least half the time….

How would one try to sawzall that bolt with a solid TT bushing? I’d think you’d need to use an angle grinder to cut off the head then use a drift & bfh to drive it out.
If it's frozen IN the bushing, depending on how much is frozen to it, you could pound all day with no result. That's a lot of surface area in the bushing for the bolt to lock to. Doesn't matter if the bushing is solid, you're cutting on either side of the bushing inside the frame so you can basically slide the bushing out.
 

Zak99b5

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Location
Albany NY
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
If it's frozen IN the bushing, depending on how much is frozen to it, you could pound all day with no result. That's a lot of surface area in the bushing for the bolt to lock to. Doesn't matter if the bushing is solid, you're cutting on either side of the bushing inside the frame so you can basically slide the bushing out.
Oh so cutting the rubber, not the bolt. Still not seeing how you'd start if it's a solid bushing, but I guess you just go at it until it gives.
 

KrashDH

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Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
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2002 Golf
Oh so cutting the rubber, not the bolt. Still not seeing how you'd start if it's a solid bushing, but I guess you just go at it until it gives.
No you cut the bolt on the outside of the bushing on each end. Between the mount and bushing. Solid bushing doesn't matter blade slides between mount and bushing
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Are you speaking of the bolt/nut that goes through the compliance bushing at the rear of the track control arm?

If all else fails, it is easy to drop the whole subframe out (four bolts, plus the smaller four for the steering rack) and try and loosen the nut from above. You may be fighting the bolt stuck in the inner metal part of the bushing, and if that happens, the impact guns often won't do squat because the bushing itself is letting it bounce back and forth.

We deal with this all the time with the Ford Transits, as Ford used threadlocker on those bolts that is stronger than the bolts themselves, and in an additional bit of wisdom, they use that same bolt to also hold the assembly to the unibody, so the "nut" on the topside is actually a captive one inside the unibody rail that can tear the nut loose and spin it around inside (like the front control arm bolt).

But like I said, if you drop the whole thing out, then you can get the impact on that nut and see if it zips off, and if it does (I suspect it will), you'll know the issue is with the bolt and the inner sleeve of the bushing, and you can decide how much time you want to spend cutting to try and separate the arm from the subframe. But just FYI, new subframes are readily available and not terribly expensive if it comes to that.
 

Lex4TDI4Life

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Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
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2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
Thanks for all the advice and insight. Truly helpful. The pic below shows where I cut between the subframe and the bushing:



Angle grinder with cutting disc for the bottom cut. I went with the sawzall for the top cut as I was better able to get it in position. In hindsight, sawzall would have been fine for both

Here is the top of the bushing post-surgery:



Bottom side of the bushing:



The bolt head decapitated:



The top nut with remaining bolt attached:



Honestly, the bushings looked fine and I probably could have left them in. Ah well, hopefully I will never have to do this again. I might, however, put some antiseize at least on the part of the bolt that comes into contact with the bushing.
 
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KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Thanks for all the advice and insight. Truly helpful. The pic below shows where I cut: between the subframe and the bushing:



Angle grinder with cutting disc for the bottom cute. I went with the sawzall for the top cuts I was better able to get it in position. In hindsight, sawzall would have been fine for both

Here is the top of the bushing post-surgery:



Bottom side of the bushing:



The bolt head decapitated:



The top nut with remaining bold attached:



Honestly, the bushings look fine and I probably could have left them in. Ah well, hopefully I will never have to do this again. I might, however, put some antiseize at least on the part of the bolt that comes into contact with the bushing.
Nicely done
Don't use anti seize imo
Over years that stuff will just harden into a cake/putty on the hardware. Sure it'll do the job but you'll need a wire brush to remove it from the bolt should you need to replace.

Use a high quality marine grease on said bolt.
Personal favorite is Evinrude Triple Guard. Spendy, but it's used on boats in saltwater environments and years later bolts will spin out like they're coated in butter
 

wonneber

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 12, 2011
Location
Monroe, NY, USA
TDI
2014 Jetta Sportwagon,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
I am replacing virtually my entire suspension and have hit a sticking point (literally) with the passenger-side lower control arm. Specifically, the bolt/nut for the rear bushing will not budge. I have tried penetrant, electric impact, breaker bar - nothing. I am going to let it sit with penetrant for another 24 hours to see if that does anything. Assuming it does not, what would y'all do next? I could try hitting it with propane, but am worried about the presence of brake and fuel lines somewhat close by. Plus, the chance of melting/burning rubber from the bushing itself is not ideal. Alternatively, I could try taking a sawzall to the bolt, but I am not a big fan of that option either.

Am I missing an option?

TIA,
lex
Can you hit the head of the bolt with a big hammer a few shots?
I've had good luck with PB Blaster (iIrc).
Spray well, let it soak a bit more, and try turning the bolt back & forth with a breaker bar.
Hope this helps.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
Ditto, soak it, then hit with a hammer, repeat. There is a product called Kroll(sp.) which is really good, available at gun stores.
 

Lex4TDI4Life

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Location
NorCal
TDI
2001 Golf-Ute TDI GLS 5spd Manual
See above :p The sawzall did the trick. And yes, the bolt was effectively welded to the aluminum insert of the bushing, so no amount of hammering would have gotten the job done.
 

mittzlepick

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2001
Location
union maine
TDI
2004 jetta wagon (365k)2001 wagon tire burner 6spd 2003 wagon(417k)
I like the nickel antisieze either way the leavings help the release down the road. Grease leaves nothing behind.
 
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