rear hatch - tied to central locks

[strretch]

I wondered about this too. Most of the key fobs I saw in ETKA operate at 315 MHz (including the N.American ones), yet there are others that are at 433.92 MHz. I don't see MHz ratings for the convenience modules in ETKA, but there is a direct connection between the modules and the antenna for the key fobs in the wiring diagrams.

 

[KOMET155]

If im not mistaken, the Japanese market ones are in a mhz range all by themselves.

 

[tongsli]

After consulting the guru of ETKA, here are the PR codes that correspond to the different FOB fequencies and countries...

5D1 - 433.92MHZ no country specified(probably covers)Germany/Europe
5D2 - 315MHZ no country specified(probably includes USA)
5D3 - Japan
5D5 - Korea
5D6 - China

Hope this helps solve the puzzle.

If you are getting a CCM(Central Convenience Module) make sure you know what frequency you're buying.

Lito

 

[tongsli]

So Brian,

This means we still don't know what MHZ that Convenience Control Module we have is operating, but if I were a betting man, it's got to be 433.92MHZ.

Most likely you're correct that our FOB's are at 315MHZ.

I still want to install my CCM into your Golf. I think this should be our next step before we recode anything.

Lito

PS. WHERE IS TED?????

 

[KOMET155]

i ordered a 433.92 mhz key fob today.

before doing so, i looked in the FCC database to see if it was going to be illegal or dangerous to operate one here in the US, but it seems that 433.92 has been licensed to a slew of home security systems companies.

I also looked up 315 mhz ...which appears to be licensed to TRW and some car security equipment firms....as well as, I reckon, VWoA

So, as long as I keep my car parked far away from those nice "mcMansions" with the high tech alarms, i should be ok.

 

[strretch]

i ordered a 433.92 mhz key fob today.

Ordering a European CCU AND new key fobs seems out of reach for most.

I'm not giving up on a better idea.

As for tying the hatch motor to the door locks, while it sounds easy in principle, it's kind of a PITA, involving taking a door apart, tapping the proper wires, running wires from the door to the trunk, and even then not having an assurance that it would work. The convenience module is very easy to get to, and I'm hopeful it's possible to address the problem there.

-Brian

 

[KOMET155]

actually, the fob (the transmitter portion ONLY) is approx $70 new...and can be had for much cheaper than that on German Ebay, i think.

the killer is the euro control unit...but there were just none of these available on Ebay (used) that were the exact part number i needed.

 

[WindWagen]

Strettchh,

And the CCU swap is not a PITA?

I agree, the door modules are a real pain to open. How about picking up the door lock motor wires close tot he CCU?

 

[strretch]

No, the CCU swap is not a PITA. It's very easy.

Picking up the door lock signal in the driver door (closest to the CCU) sounds like a good thought. I'll look into it, maybe this weekend. I have a reason I want to take that door apart anyway.

Good idea!

 

[WindWagen]

sorry, I agree, the CCU swap is easy. But it looks like you fellahs are having a tough time getting it to work "right".

Here are my words of wisdom....take it or leave it:

In my relatively young career as a Mexhanical Engineer in this high tech period in history, I have seen a lot of good ideas, and a lot of good ideas go bad. One thing I am wary of is using high tech gizmos to do a simple job. Overkill in other words...such as a f'in CCU computer to unlock some bloody doors! C'mon, there are just as many wires to run, it's obviously not possible to program it the way WE want it to work, is it cost effective? not sure about that. HEY VW enginners...this is a CAR...not a lab exercise in electrical engineering!!

Maybe we should submit this issue to an Electrical Engineering Student for a Thesis topic?

 

[strretch]

Okay, it's a bit complicated how, but I CONFIRMED without any doubt that the AH CCU is operating at 433 MHz and the North American AJ one is operating at 315 MHz. If you want details, I'll share how I know this, but it's a bit boring and off topic.

The bottom line is that there's no way of coding our keys with these convenience modules unless you're KOMET and you buy a new 433 MHz remote control portion of the fob from Germany.

I agree that this box is either poorly designed or not flexible enough with software, which I think is too bad. I still think there's some hope of bypassing the CCU, and I'll look into those ideas this weekend.

 

[KOMET155]

hmmm, maybe you can find which circuit on the CCU's board has a time delay re-lock built into it and just disable that? then you can unlock the hatch once and it would stay unlocked until you lock all doors with your remote?

 

[volks27]

hmmm, maybe you can find which circuit on the CCU's board has a time delay re-lock built into it and just disable that? then you can unlock the hatch once and it would stay unlocked until you lock all doors with your remote?

I thought of that too. maybe it's just a 555 timer that needs a de-solder hehe ... In any terms i'm not trying that on my CCU

 

[tongsli]

Brian and I will be swapping CCM's on Saturday. I want to know how the Golf behaves with the Jetta Control Module.

If this works, there should be plenty of control modules sitting around in various junk yards that would be real cheap and easy to find.

Lito

 

[KOMET155]

what does a 555 timer look like? the cover snaps off the CCU very easily....

I thought of that too. maybe it's just a 555 timer that needs a de-solder hehe ... In any terms i'm not trying that on my CCU

 

[SVTWEB]

555 timer is an 8-pin DIPP IC.

 

[Davin]

I would think that the box would have a microcontroller of some sort inside it to handle everything... not discrete timing components.

KOMET, can you take a snapshot of the inside of the CCM? As close and clear as possible, so as to make out numbers on chips? Thanks.

 

[volks27]

you're right, It probably doesn't have external timers. Maybe a crystal if we're lucky.

 

[Davin]

That's an idea... i'm not a RF signal guru but I wonder what would happen if you replaced the transmitter xtal in a euro unit with the xtal in a US unit. is it that simple to change the frequency or are there other bits that would need to be changed.

i wonder... if indeed there is an ECU in the CCM, maybe there would be a way to "chip" it... reprogram a NA unit with the euro programming, while keeping the hardware necessary to drive the US transmitters...

 

[strretch]

Folks, I compared the innards of the AH and the AJ modules last night, which is how I found out that one operates at one frequency and the other at another. The printed circuit boards are the same. No doubt there. What's plugged into them --- all the various ICs and other components --- are completely different. I think it would be a bear to swap pieces of one for another (and even to figure out what all the pieces do), but please be my guest if you want to buy a Euro CCU and mess up both of them. Have fun and us know what happens.

-Brian

 

[KOMET155]

i just took some pics but i cant get good detail at close range. they're blurry

this is the best one....

http://pics.tdiclub.com/filemaxx/%2E%2E%2F%2E%2E%2Fmembers%2Fkomet155%2Fkomet1%2FCCU%5Fguts%2Ejpg

I would think that the box would have a microcontroller of some sort inside it to handle everything... not discrete timing components.

KOMET, can you take a snapshot of the inside of the CCM? As close and clear as possible, so as to make out numbers on chips? Thanks.

 

[strretch]

Some interesting notes...

Lito and I swapped convenience control modules between his MY00 Jetta and my MY01 Golf this weekend. Unexpected results, IMO. The minute he put the Golf control module in his car, the trunk unlatched. When he shut it again, it unlatched again, and so on and so forth. This mimics what the Golfs do when you shut the hatch of the Golf (it locks), except on the Jetta, the hatch doesn't lock, it unlocks. Similarly, on my Golf, the Jetta module made my hatch lock once when the key fob was pressed, never to be unlocked again! Therefore, there is a definite difference between N. American control modules of the Jetta and the Golf. That said, swapping the Jetta and Golf modules doesn't solve the Golf hatch problem!

I did do some scoping out of the door lock signals in the driver door over the weekend as well, and I think I have some ideas of how to tie them in with the hatch lock.

More on that later, once the rain stops and I have a chance to try a couple things...

-Brian

 

[volks27]

My rear hatch door quit working this weekend. What I mean is that it wouldn't lock or unlock with the FOB or the door release button. Turned out to be wires that were separated from the action of opening-closing the hatch. grr.

Anyhow, the hatch was behaving exactly like I wanted to while the wires were cut (the hatch was always open). The only thing is that it never locked.

After fixing my wires, I examined the solenoid. It's a very standard solenoid that locks on +12 / ground and unlocks on ground / +12 (inversed polarity). I tried it with a 12v source.

I imagine it would be very simple to run the pair of wires that controls the door from the central conv. box to the rear hatch. This would mean that the standard unlock pair of wires going to the rear hatch would become unused, and the button on the fob/hatch release wouldn't work anymore.

Anyone know how the other door locks work? Is it a standard pair +12 and ground to the doors? Maybe I can tap-in to both wires to test. I'm tempted to try this out this week, seems like it's going to work. I'll keep you guys posted. Let me know if I'm missing something.

 

[NYTDI]

The alarm is tied into that three wire latch connector/switch. Otherwise I found it operates as you describe. I kept setting off the alarm when I tried a few rewiring scenarios. I played around with a jumper wire and the fob and the door release switch and a voltmeter for a bit when I had to replace the rear latch (the integrated switch was shot and beyond repair).

 

[volks27]

Cool! Did you try to connect it to the drivers door lock by any chance? If I look at the bentley, there is a bus going to the door lock module (in the door) then there is two wires going from that box to the solenoid lock. So I was thinking of tapping into those two wires. It should work, but I don't know how the alarm will react.

The alarm is tied into that three wire latch connector/switch. Otherwise I found it operates as you describe. I kept setting off the alarm when I tried a few rewiring scenarios. I played around with a jumper wire and the fob and the door release switch and a voltmeter for a bit when I had to replace the rear latch (the integrated switch was shot and beyond repair).

 

[NYTDI]

no, I didn't take the drivers door apart at all so I'm afraid I can't help there

I only was into the latch workings in the hatch.