rear hatch - tied to central locks

[WindWagen]

Ok, the other two threads regarding this topic were getting too long, so here's a fresh one....

My idea is to use the rear hatch door switch and the solenoid that opens the hatch independent of the existing central lock system. The power to this wiring is interupted with a latching relay. the contacts on the latching relay are open when the central lock system is locked. This way, i can open the rear hatch as many times as I want, without having to press the button on the door, or key fob, as long as the doors are unlocked.

I removed the panel on the hatch of my 03 wagon tonite, and disconnected the wiring to the solenoid, and the wires to the electric switch (door handle). No errors, or funny lights were displayed. The central lock system behaves normally, so i didn't disturb the can bus or upset the computer.

Next, I went hunting for suitable wires to splice in my latching relay. BUT... i find it too difficult to remove the door modules to access the wiring to the lock solenoids. I was about to give up, but I decided to use an even cheesier method. I am going to mount a microswitch and attach it to the linkage for one of the rear doors. I will use the microswitch to interupt the power to the hatch switch.

I will try this tommorrow, unless someone else has a better idea!! I will check here before I do any more hacking!!

BTW... don't touch the rubber wiring covers that connect the hatch to the car body!!! Bite the bullet and skip tyhe stealth look. Once you pull the rubber off, it is IMPOSSIBLE to reinstall them, unless you are willing to trash the plastic frame that the rubber mounts to. To replace that little frame, you will have to get new ones, and route all the wires (and washer fluid hose)through it...take my advice... leave the wires exposed!!

 

[KOMET155]

Im interested in how you're going to get around this "your way", but it appears the factory way to change this is by replacing the comfort control module.

 

[volks27]

Windwagen, you have my undivided attention

If you need any help, I have a bentley so I can send/fax you some diagrams

Lets find a fix to this annoyance. I think one of the big problems we'll have is to get the alarm to arm even if the latch is closed. I think the first thing to fix is the "auto-lock" of the hatch when we close it. This is trigged by the doorswitch (a microswitch in the latch). I think to get the alarm to engage, this switch must be off.

I'm stumpted

 

[Ted_Grozier]

Okay, too bad about the new thread but I understand how the previous one was not getting anywhere.

Some recommendations: if you get a hold of the wiring diagrams (I could send you possibly wrong Golf ones but you really should get a Bentley manual) through the dealer or otherwise, you can access all the wires you need by removing the sied panel at the hood release lever. You really need the diagram because there are dozens of wires there, but they include all the wires to the hatch and to the rear door! So you don't have to run new wires.

Getting the panel off is a bit tricky (just from memory) and involves removing the lever first: a plastic clip gets removed and actually falls behind the panel...not to worry...and then also you have to pop up the door sill. Should have the manual for this.

I think you can keep the microswitch intact and thus all standard alarm functions. Unlike with the door locks, which are monitored, the car does not know the position of the solenoid that engages the handle, making it functional.

When I tried the re-wire, I did not completely disconnect the hatch wiring from its factory pins. So when I spliced the "unlock" wire (it goes 12V when you unlock doors) to the wire that feeds the solenoid, I did not have the other wire of that solenoid (the ground) connected to the "lock" wire (it goes 12V when you lock the doors).

I really do think if you can piggyback the hatch onto a circuit for the rear door, it will work. But you have to do both wires.

 

[WindWagen]

thanks for your help guys.... It would be nice to use the wiring at the side panel, but I am ready with my microswitch. I have tried disconnecting all the connectors to the hatch latch/switch, except for those that detect whether it is properly closed. All the functions, including the alarm appear to work. After my modifications, the latch/switch wires will be disconnected anyway.

Stay tuned, I will be finishing it off tonite!! and then i will try and post some pix...wish me luck!!

 

[Ted_Grozier]

Wow great may the force be with you!

And the $20 offer (matching to Fred) is still open!

 

[strretch]

Originally posted by Ted_Grozier:
I think you can keep the microswitch intact and thus all standard alarm functions. Unlike with the door locks, which are monitored, the car does not know the position of the solenoid that engages the handle, making it functional.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ted, so if I understand this, you could break the hatch switch circuit if the door locks are open, and then close it when the door locks are closed, and that would achieve what we want, right?

-Brian

Edit: Okay, I know this doesn't activate the rear hatch solenoid, but it would keep the hatch unlocked after pushing the fob button as long as the doors remain unlocked, no?

[ October 29, 2002, 18:28: Message edited by: strretch ]

 

[WindWagen]

Hi Strretch,

I don't think it works that way. The hatch switch is monitored by the comfort module, whichis bassically some sort of logic circuit. The solenoid will never power up unless the key fob, or drivers door button is pressed. It works independent of the central locks....unless you do what I'm doing.

OK ..here's an update...

It ALMOST works @X!$%@

The entire circuit is wired, and my microswitch is installed. The only glitch is that the switch on the rear hatch is not just a set of NO contacts!! Apparently, when you are pressing the button, there is a lot of resistance still! About 200 ohms!!!

So, if I short the wires on the hatch switch, the thing works as expected. So, I am going to have to find a replacement switch to fit to the "handle"

I am going to try and post some pix....this is my first time on this BBS, so please bear with me...

pic of screws for rear hatch inside cover

more pix coming

[ October 30, 2002, 11:58: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[WindWagen]

more pix

 

[WindWagen]

more pix

here are the linkages inside the rear hatch (03 Jetta Wagon)...note the black connector on the upper right. this is for the hatch switch.

here are those stinkin boots...don't touch them!!!Now that I think about it, I should have just spliced into the original wiring just inside the car, close to these boots.

Here is the microswitch in "doors locked" position. I used epoxy glue and mounted in the left rear door.

same thing, but in "doors unlocked" position

here's the microswitch that comes with the hatch switch...200 ohms when active

I will draw a quick wiring diagram next, and post it here soon.

The new resampled pics are now in your folder (TDICLUB pic server)

[ October 30, 2002, 12:00: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[WindWagen]

I hope this is legible...

I used a relay because I didn't know how much current the hatch switch could handle...but since it sux anyway, and the switch has to be replaced, I would problably find one with decent current handling, and eliminate the relay altogether.

[ October 30, 2002, 12:01: Message edited by: tongsli ]

 

[WindWagen]

uh
....
I was reading some of the posts from the other thread. It seems like most of you guys have golf, not the jetta, and there appears to be a different lock mechanism. I'm not sure if "my fix" is 100% appliable to a golf. It seems that there is no electrical hatch release switch, but a mechanical handle instead. I would think that you wouldn't want power to the hatch solenoid all the time whole the other doors are unlocked. So, if you cannot directly wire the solenoid to the other door solenoids, and you have to glue a microswitch in, like I did, then you may want to use a time delay relay, so that the power is shut off after a preset period of time (1 sec).

Does this make sense??

All i know is that my hack wiring has not compromised the original lock/alarm function.

 

[Ted_Grozier]

My what big pictures you have!

I'm not sure I understand how the solenoid is going to return to the locked position with your setup...but maybe it is indeed different than the Golf!

I also don't understand why you have kept the hatch release switch in the circuit.

Hope it works!

Ted

 

[volks27]

Hey I gotta better idea... use the extra channel for an auto-roll down window!!

Or even better, plug it in for a remote car starter...

Ok ok, i'm going a little too far.

[ October 30, 2002, 16:48: Message edited by: volks27 ]

 

[volks27]

So now, judging from my comprehension of the picture, the hatch switch on the fob won't do anything.

If so, let me day dream here: Could we take that "wireless hatch unlock channel" to program a pushing solenoid to push the hatch open (like the jettas)? So when you would push that key on the fob, it would kick start the door open.

Maybe I'm taking this too far...

 

[WindWagen]

Yes..you are correct

and Holy $h@t!!!

That's an excellent idea!! OK, maybe not the door, but I could use that extra remote channel for something?? any other suggestions? I guess i would have to permanently short together the original wires for the hatch switch. i wonder if the comfort module cares about that??

 

[Variant TDI]

Bumping this up to the top, since I need to study what's going on.

Why not change the hatch "enable" button on the remote to pop the fuel release.

I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten, or lost my grip, just to have it click shut on me.

 

[tongsli]

For Strretch:

Are you willing to try the convenience control module from my 2000 Jetta in your 2001 Golf??

I'd love to see how the Golf hatch/lock behaves

Lito

 

[WindWagen]

All cool ideas...for my now dead button

But somehow, I think this computer controlled BS locking system is more complicated than traditional "wired" auto electrics. What I mean is, we problably can't simply pick up the signal for the trunk release (when pressing the key fob) at something like the trunk release button on the door. Can someone prove me wrong.

 

[jackbombay]

This is the best mod I have ever heard of. I leave my wagon unlocked all the time and only rarley take the key out of the ignition. I despise having to open the drivers door everytime I want to get into the back.

Where did you get the micro switch from? how many amps is it rated to handle? did it come from Radio shack?

-Jack

 

[WindWagen]

I got the microswitch from a local electronics surplus store. I brought the handle with me so I could try and find a good fit. I'm sure RS should have something that would work. I used a relay, so the current handling is not an issue. The foglight style relay is rated for 30 amps. IMO, I don't think you can find a microswitch that will fit, and handle a decent amount of current, but who knows? I don't know what the hatch release motor draws.

You know what, it looks like I never finished this thread off! About the microswitch in the handle with the 200 ohm resistance. I tossed that thing and got a normal microswitch to replace it. It improbable to find a perfect fir, so I ended up epoxying that in place too. All I can 'say is that it still workes awesome, 5 months later! Sorry for not posting a pic of this other microswitch

Eat that.... VW!!!

 

[jackbombay]

Thanks for the information.

-Jack

 

[KOMET155]

Good news, Good news, and Bad news.
good news #1)
the rear hatch on my Golf GTi now stays unlocked whenever my doors are unlocked, and locks when i lock the doors.
good news #2)
it is VERY easy, only requiring the use of a t20 torx driver and a stubby phillips screwdriver
bad news)
i replaced my comfort control unit with the euro version. they cost approximately $200

 

[Davin]

Cool. I've wondered if the wiring harnesses are compatible... I guess they are!

Could you post part numbers of your old and the new control module?

 

[volks27]

Okay, All I need is part numbers... please!!

Let me guess, doesn't work on 99 1/2 right

 

[tongsli]

Brian(strretch)and I swapped Convenience Control modules yesterday.

There are a few bugs because the module he used was from a BORA not a Jetta.

However, his rear hatch lock doesn't lock automatically.

There are a few other bugs in the system which we're still trying to investigate.

IF a US JETTA control module also works in the GOLF, then this should be a less expensive alternative simply becuase you can get them in the US/North America.

L

 

[volks27]

How did the golf module behave in your jetta? (just curious)

 

[KOMET155]

old control unit part number: 1J0-959-799-AJ-062
new control unit part number: 1J0-959-799-AH-04T

control units vary depending on number of doors you have and options.
my new one is compatible with ALL factory options.

Cool. I've wondered if the wiring harnesses are compatible... I guess they are!

Could you post part numbers of your old and the new control module?

 

[strretch]

Good news, Good news, and Bad news.
good news #1)
the rear hatch on my Golf GTi now stays unlocked whenever my doors are unlocked, and locks when i lock the doors.
good news #2)
it is VERY easy, only requiring the use of a t20 torx driver and a stubby phillips screwdriver
bad news)
i replaced my comfort control unit with the euro version. they cost approximately $200

Joe, did you have any trouble re-coding your keys with the European convenience control module?

-Brian

 

[KOMET155]

..you had to ask? my transmitters dont operate the doors at this time.

i may just try recoding my keys to see if that does it, but i wouldnt be surprised if the new CCU operates on a different frequency... the NA part numbered CCUs are listed in the euro etka but are not for use there...they have the listing "MEX" in the remarks column... so there doesnt seem to be any cross-compatibility.

still, i wanted to upgrade to the newer style fob anyway, so im not too worried about the transmitter problem.

i'll post more details once i have more good news