Really loud engine on Passat...should it be louder than our Jetta?

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Our Passat is running well as far as I can tell after the BSM delete, TB, new fan clutch and EGR cooler replacement. In December we drove it AZ to San Antonio and back with zero issues (except needing to add a little oil). 245k-ish miles on it and my wife uses it as a daily driver. She loves it.

However, it's really loud. Like hard to talk to each other standing outside the car with it running. It's like a real airy, whirring sound (yeah, I know, super helpful). It's our 5th TDI so I know the TDI sound...this is on top of that. And I know it will likely be a little louder due to the BSM delete, but how much louder than our 04 Jetta TDI should it be? Maybe it's the spinning chain?

I had a local TDI mechanic slated to come look at it a month and a half ago but he disappeared the day he was supposed to show up. Literally. Phone goes to VM, no response. There's actually a discussion about him in the Arizona forum as nobody can find him and he had a good reputation...was even getting ready to open an independent shop.

After searching the club I don't see any relevant posts about "loud BHW engine". Any suggestions for what would be making the engine sound really loud? Looking for places to start. Sold my VCDS years ago with one of my cars but have another one on the way as of yesterday, so will be able to do more troubleshooting then...just not sure what to even look for now. Again, runs great, gets about 35mpg, just seems really loud. And yes, I did the TB change without VCDS...don't know if timing being slightly off would be relevant to a loud engine.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Is the engine itself loud, or is it vibrating something that is in turn making noise? Like a loose fitting upper engine cover, for instance.
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Is the engine itself loud, or is it vibrating something that is in turn making noise? Like a loose fitting upper engine cover, for instance.
Engine cover was contributing, but took that off a couple months ago to better isolate the noise. Def coming from the engine, or an accessory. Doesn't seem to increase with RPM (other than normal TDI sound increasing).

I know this is a terrible thing to try and diagnose over the internet...I wish there was a way I could record it but that seems to not work well. Running next to our BEW Jetta, it is definitely louder with a different sound. Guess I'm looking for common issues to diagnose. I figure a cam and lifters would have more of a tapping sound. Only other possible "symptoms" that I wrote off as unrelated are gurgling in the heater core (can't for the life of me get it bled right) and brief white smoke on startup.

Is there a thread for common VCDS blocks and values for the Passat that I should check to make sure everything is running well?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Remove the accessory belts, see if anything changes. Maybe you just have an alternator pulley clutch problem.
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
No change without belt. When looking I remembered alternator and AC compressor are new anyway, not that it means they couldn't be bad, but was same sounds before and after those.

EDIT: noise goes away, so will continue troubleshooting.

OH, I believe you tend to not have sound on that computer but here's a video in case someone else recognizes the sound. Remove the TDI sound and you can hear the "airy" sound.

 
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Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Finally got my new VCDS cable. No faults other than rear door lock, which we are well aware of. Checked timing and it was advanced at 2.5 so I adjusted it back to .5. Still runs great, just loud... Maybe it's just me?
 

PickleRick

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Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
To me I sounds like you have an exhaust leak. As for the "airy" sound I hear a normal intake. These cars have a factory cold air intake, terrific design and very short/free flowing.

I've not heard a confirmed came lobe issue engine but I have a feeling mine is getting to the end of her life span and it doesn't sound as smooth as my 180k engine. My dd has 272k and counting.
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Now that's an interesting thought... I'll look around. Thanks.

Anytime have a video of a "normal" sounding Passat with BSM delete?
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I have two of them but each are egr deleted and that makes them louder that one with an egr. My smoother engine is in my 4runner with a short ram intake and 2.5 inch mandrel exhaust with no muffler. She's sounds like a tractor. I'm not sure either are a good comparison...and dont know how to send pics/video outside a text/email.

Cam inspecting will take about 20 min, just pull the valve cover. Much easier without the egr.
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Cam inspecting will take about 20 min, just pull the valve cover. Much easier without the egr.
Yeah, in looking at this yesterday it looked like a much longer job than 20 minutes with the EGR cooler in the way...can you get to all the bolts without removing the EGR?
 
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Mozambiquer

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Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Location
Versailles Missouri
TDI
2004 VW Touareg V10 TDI, 2012 Audi Q7 V6 TDI, 1998 VW Jetta TDI. 1982 VW Rabbit pickup, 2001 VW Jetta TDI, 2005 VW Passat wagon TDI X3, 2001 VW golf TDI, 1980 VW rabbit pickup,
No change without belt. When looking I remembered alternator and AC compressor are new anyway, not that it means they couldn't be bad, but was same sounds before and after those.

OH, I believe you tend to not have sound on that computer but here's a video in case someone else recognizes the sound. Remove the TDI sound and you can hear the "airy" sound.

Sounds to me like a pulley rubbing on metal. Check and make sure the lower timing belt covers aren't rubbing on the harmonic balancer.
I have a bsm deleted BHW and it even has the EGR and cat deleted, it's super quiet. Even quieter than any other TDIs I've had.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I can't remember. I've not had an egr since 2017/2018
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Sounds to me like a pulley rubbing on metal. Check and make sure the lower timing belt covers aren't rubbing on the harmonic balancer.
I have a bsm deleted BHW and it even has the EGR and cat deleted, it's super quiet. Even quieter than any other TDIs I've had.
Ok, now I'm panicking that I somehow didn't get the new gear on far enough and it's the chain rubbing on the front cover...may need to do an oil change and check for metal shavings...
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
So as I'm sitting here thinking, it makes perfect sense that the chain is probably rubbing. Sick at the thought. As I'm thinking of tearing back into the front of the engine, I'm debating possible solutions if the chain IS rubbing on the front cover.

Any ideas? If I find evidence of scraping on the front cover, these are what I've thought of for possible solutions:
  1. Heat the gear with a torch and knock it on more (worried about heating the chain or anything else around it)
  2. Slightly grind out the front cover (worried about weakening it)
Open to other suggestions.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I would think if the sprocket was not on all the way, the chain tracking would have already tooefed itself into catastrophic failure by now. But, if you have narrowed down the noise to the front lower portion of the engine, and it isn't any accessory belt driven noise, then the next step I'd take would be to remove all the timing covers, and look for any marks on anything. If you don't see any, bolt the crank pulley back on (leave the covers off), and start it up and see if the noise is still present. If so, then it looks like maybe dropping the oil pan will be in order.
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
I would think if the sprocket was not on all the way, the chain tracking would have already tooefed itself into catastrophic failure by now. But, if you have narrowed down the noise to the front lower portion of the engine, and it isn't any accessory belt driven noise, then the next step I'd take would be to remove all the timing covers, and look for any marks on anything. If you don't see any, bolt the crank pulley back on (leave the covers off), and start it up and see if the noise is still present. If so, then it looks like maybe dropping the oil pan will be in order.
Ok, sounds like a good plan... It's at least a few less steps.
 

Drewser

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2002
Location
Mesa, AZ USA
TDI
'04 Jetta TDI Wagon, '04 Passat TDI, '03 Jetta TDI Wagon, several more in past
Finally got around to messing with this. Belt has been off since we haven't needed AC and the sound did go away. There was a grinding sound when I spun the clutch of the compressor so I figured that was the problem...bad aftermarket compressor. Swapped that out today, put belt on, and sound still there. So I guess that means it's the tensioner pulley. Just ordered one of those from IDParts...cheap and will be easy to replace. Will report back.
 
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