Real World MPG with DSG

AlmondFarmer

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I am about to buy a Passat and am trying to decide between a manual and auto. I was dead set on getting the manual having had mostly manuals in the past. I recently drove the DSG and was VERY impressed. Am I making a huge mistake by going with Automatic? What is the "ACTUAL" mpg with the DSG?
 

osesu96

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The best I've done with my wife's 2006 Jetta with DSG is 48mpg, 99.99% highway. Around town, I'm getting upper 30's.
 

gergg

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I'd get the 6M, had a dsg Golf and it was fine, but I think the 6M will give you better mpg's and lower overall cost.
 

rotarykid

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Numbers from real world driving show at least a 20-30 % impact on fuel economy with the DSG, more on city and mixed loops. Also the extra maintenance costs involved in owning a DSG car are significantly more over the life of a car than a manual trans version. I have laid out in other posts in other strings the difference in cost over the life of a car, it goes into the thousands in extra costs over the life of your ownership...........which to me defeats the purpose of going to trouble of buying a diesel in the first place.
 

04Wagon

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Numbers from real world driving show at least a 20-30 % impact on fuel economy with the DSG, more on city and mixed loops. Also the extra maintenance costs involved in owning a DSG car are significantly more over the life of a car than a manual trans version. I have laid out in other posts in other strings the difference in cost over the life of a car, it goes into the thousands in extra costs over the life of your ownership...........which to me defeats the purpose of going to trouble of buying a diesel in the first place.
Just thinking, would there actually be that much of a spread for the everyday driver (like me)? This is what I would personally consider, I would knock 10% off of the manual millage as most owners driving the Passat in Manual would have done so to max out the MPG (hypermilers if I may) which I would not do. Next if the car will ever be “tuned” I would think at least 1 maybe 2 clutches in the lifetime of the car ($2500.00 or so?) so there goes much of the savings of the manual over the DSG.
Personally I would be buying the car as it gets great mileage the way I normally drive and is also fun to drive; I would drive at the same rate of speed etc. no matter what car I buy.

Somewhere I read DGS millage as high 4X US so for the most part if you are not hypermiling that would be within a few % of the manual models I think.

I don’t see a thread comparing mileage yet between the stick and DSG, but that would shed some light on the subject.
 

skinnyb

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I have DSG and the mileage is great in my case. I came from a CR Jetta 6m and the mileage is better in my case. I wouldn't let mileage get in the way of deciding which trans to get. If you like DSG get it, I thought I would regret it but I haven't. So far it has been great.


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TDICT

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My highway mileage is 46-48 at 70 mph with my 2012 TDI SEL DGS and my tank average has never dropped below 40mpg in the 4,000 miles I have driven the Passat. I don't understand the attraction of the 6 mt over the DGS. The Passat is not a sports car that would benefit from the stick tranny. The DGS is a joy to drive and if you feel macho and want to be in control of your gear you can still do it. I can see where someone can't afford the $1,200 or so cost upcharge (no sure what it really is but I think thats what is was for my 2009 JSW TDI). Big deal you have to change the oil every 40k miles, clutches don't last for ever especially is you do a lot of city driving. Buy what you like but I think the DGS is the way to go.
 

TDICT

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Numbers from real world driving show at least a 20-30 % impact on fuel economy with the DSG, more on city and mixed loops. Also the extra maintenance costs involved in owning a DSG car are significantly more over the life of a car than a manual trans version. I have laid out in other posts in other strings the difference in cost over the life of a car, it goes into the thousands in extra costs over the life of your ownership...........which to me defeats the purpose of going to trouble of buying a diesel in the first place.
You are saying the DGS would burn 30-40% more fuel with a DGS over a 6MT. This is total BS. Not sure where you got these numbers from but they make no sense.
 

gergg

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My guess is the 6M will save approx 10% mpg's which is right in line with the EPA ratings........ I actually enjoy driving the 6M most of the time, I did wish I had a dsg the other day when I was stuck in bumper to bumper highway traffic for 10 miles:rolleyes:
 

TDICT

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10% improvement means you are getting over 50 mpg at a constant 70 mph..The EPA has missed the mark on all the VW CR diesels. Driving a manual in a Porsche 911 through the twistes is fun, been there done that, but in day to day traffic....No my idea of sport.
 

gergg

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10% improvement means you are getting over 50 mpg at a constant 70 mph..The EPA has missed the mark on all the VW CR diesels. Driving a manual in a Porsche 911 through the twistes is fun, been there done that, but in day to day traffic....No my idea of sport.
Relax, I like the DSG too. I think you will lose the argument that it gets as good of mileage as a 6M, but may win the argument that it is more convenient .......whether it is 3,5,7,10% the 6M will improve mpg's, I was just making a WAG at 10% based on my experience with both transmissions.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I spent a weekend with a Passat SEL with DSG, and was, like the OP, very impressed. However, I'd go for the manual. It's not a sports car thing, as the Passat certainly isn't a sports car. For me it's more about what I'm comfortable with, and I prefer to shift myself. If you want some points of reference look at Fuelly ratings for '10 and later Golf TDIs, both with DSG and Manual transmissions. You'll see at least a 10% difference in the numbers. I'm not saying the Passat is going to do exactly the same, but it seems likely.
 

rotarykid

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You are saying the DGS would burn 30-40% more fuel with a DGS over a 6MT. This is total BS. Not sure where you got these numbers from but they make no sense.
On city and mixed that number of 30-40 % is more than easily achievable in a manual over any DSG. Around 30 to the low 30s is not uncommon in a DSG in these circumstances while over similar loop in exactly the same car you can exceed 40 mpgs in a manual version. That is compared to the average DSG driver that just puts the thing in D and goes. On the highway the difference is likely a little less but there is still a difference.
 

TDICT

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On city and mixed that number of 30-40 % is more than easily achievable in a manual over any DSG. Around 30 to the low 30s is not uncommon in a DSG in these circumstances while over similar loop in exactly the same car you can exceed 40 mpgs in a manual version. That is compared to the average DSG driver that just puts the thing in D and goes. On the highway the difference is likely a little less but there is still a difference.
This still makes no sense. There is no more internal loss in a DGS and a manual because they are both basically manual transmissions. Are you are telling me a standard driver can achieve better mileage because they control the gear they are in? If this is your belief than the DGS driver, if inclined, can do the same thing.
There is a slight highway mileage advantage to the manual car because they have a different final drive ratio. That may be only 2 or 3%
Your logic may have held some water years ago comparing a torque converter automatic to a manual shift but even then there was never a 30-40% difference.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Maybe it doesn't make sense. So why does Fuelly show numbers are consistently lower for TDIs with DSGs than manuals (at least 10%). And why do we see threads here about poor fuel economy with DSGs, but not with manual transmissions, like this one?
 

darrelld

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Maybe it doesn't make sense. So why does Fuelly show numbers are consistently lower for TDIs with DSGs than manuals (at least 10%). And why do we see threads here about poor fuel economy with DSGs, but not with manual transmissions, like this one?
Depends on driving style but the DSG's probably downshift more often than a manual driver would.

No human is going to change gears as fast or often as either of my DSG's do in traffic.

Maybe VW should offer an eco switch to control DSG shift patterns. I test drove one of the new 2012 Tiguans with the improved fuel economy ratings. The 2012 Tiguan shifted into higher gears much faster and held them longer than the 2011 models do.
 
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gergg

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This still makes no sense. There is no more internal loss in a DGS and a manual because they are both basically manual transmissions. Are you are telling me a standard driver can achieve better mileage because they control the gear they are in? If this is your belief than the DGS driver, if inclined, can do the same thing.
There is a slight highway mileage advantage to the manual car because they have a different final drive ratio. That may be only 2 or 3%
Your logic may have held some water years ago comparing a torque converter automatic to a manual shift but even then there was never a 30-40% difference.
When I had the DSG Golf, I tried best I could to get top mpg's but I never could get what the 6M guys were reporting, close, but 5-10% less seemed about right. I guess some of it depends on driving style and conditions but overall, for whatever reason, the 6M cars tend to do a little better. One thing you can do with the 6M is coast out of gear which helps on certain stretches of road. The DSG is a great transmission when it is working properly, if it was as reliable and cost effective as a stick then I might have chosen it this go-round.
 

de3de88

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Have had my 12 Passat TDI/SEL (DSG) for three weeks now. Averaging 44.5 with commute split between local roads (mid 30's) and highway/interstate (high 40's and more) giving me the 44.9 to date. Hoping that will eventually exceed current mileage once broken in.
 

abctdi

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Have had my 12 Passat TDI/SEL (DSG) for three weeks now. Averaging 44.5 with commute split between local roads (mid 30's) and highway/interstate (high 40's and more) giving me the 44.9 to date. Hoping that will eventually exceed current mileage once broken in.
Finally someone answered the call instead of bashing the DSG. Let's keep sending in mpg data and comparing fuelie data.
Maybe the comparison to older jettas won't hold due to differences in application of the DSG to the passat. I've read that the passat DSG seems more refined than the jetta one and the entire drivetrain also as evidenced by the great mpgs we are seeing so far.
 

de3de88

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I have read that the better performance and mileage of the 12 Passat is due to the piezo injectors and adblue emmission equipment. VW was able to tune for better performance due to the injectors (multiple shots per injection cycle) and urea cleansing of nitrogens from exhaust. It follows that better performance would equate to better mileage, both a result of efficiency. I love the DSG...so far!
 
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darrelld

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I am averaging about 2-3 mpg better in my Passat DSG over my Jetta DSG on the same urban driving cycle.



 

TheGrove

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Have had my 12 Passat TDI/SEL (DSG) for three weeks now. Averaging 44.5 with commute split between local roads (mid 30's) and highway/interstate (high 40's and more) giving me the 44.9 to date. Hoping that will eventually exceed current mileage once broken in.
And the type of commute will affect your mileage a lot! My commute from Western MD to Washington DC I can only average about 40mpg @ 75 due to the 3 "mountains" I have to cross. People in flatter areas, especially the mid-west get much better mileage.

I'm not complaining mind you, I'm still getting 5+mpg better than my '04 did.

I have read that the better performance and mileage of the 12 Passat is due to the piezo injectors and adblue emmission equipment. VW was able to tune for better performance due to the injectors (multiple shots per injection cycle) and urea cleansing of nitrogens from exhaust. It follows that better performance would equate to better mileage, both a result of efficiency. I love the DSG...so far!
One small correction, the '12 passat uses solenoid injectors. The Jetta's use piezo injectors.
 

de3de88

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And the type of commute will affect your mileage a lot! My commute from Western MD to Washington DC I can only average about 40mpg @ 75 due to the 3 "mountains" I have to cross. People in flatter areas, especially the mid-west get much better mileage.

I'm not complaining mind you, I'm still getting 5+mpg better than my '04 did.



One small correction, the '12 passat uses solenoid injectors. The Jetta's use piezo injectors.
You are correct sir, I stand corrected on the injector type. I also commute to VA from MD and due to much flatter terrain am getting the 44.9 to date. Waaaaaayyyyy better than my 3/4 ton Silverado 6.0 where I was filling up every other day!
 

MyAvocation

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Other threads mention the 6M having better gearing over the DSG. The problem with buying a 6M Passat is its baseline of options. Only our friends to the north can choose a 6M with better option choices.

It also *appears* that a Passat DSG will get the same fuel economy as my 06 DSG (and hold more fuel), which is fantastic news, as I'm not looking forward to trading-up to something with less miles per tank.
 

TheGrove

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You are correct sir, I stand corrected on the injector type. I also commute to VA from MD and due to much flatter terrain am getting the 44.9 to date. Waaaaaayyyyy better than my 3/4 ton Silverado 6.0 where I was filling up every other day!
No problem, and I totally understand the Silverado. I count on 15.5mpg with my F350 when I drive it to work - usually with a fill up every day as it uses just over 1/2 a tank for the round trip.
 

TomB

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Maybe it doesn't make sense. So why does Fuelly show numbers are consistently lower for TDIs with DSGs than manuals (at least 10%). And why do we see threads here about poor fuel economy with DSGs, but not with manual transmissions, like this one?
His driving habits, location, weather conditions, fuel supply, items stored in vehicle. Too many variables to know.

Does anyone like to point out the overhead in shifting a 6 speed? 5 is enough, but you have got to be shifting all the time with 6.

I found the MB 7 or 8 speed auto too much to even worry about trying to shift with the paddles like you do with the tiptronic on the 5 speeds.

Personally, with in city traffic, I do NOT want to shift that much and prefer the DSG/Auto transmission for this type of driving.
 

LuckyBob

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Ontario
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Passat TDI 2012
Dsg 2000 rpm @ 70mph

For those that asked before. 2000RPM at 70MPH.

Noticed that even though MPG is a bit lower at a glance at this speed, the extra momentum keeps the engine in 6th gear over slight inclines etc. you let off the gas and it will carry itself through the hill but stay in the sweet spot without having to downshift. For totally flat roads 60MPG may be the best speed. You can average 4.0L/100km 60mpg with a proper driving technique.


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maxedtdi

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On the golfs, the DSG robs about 10-15% of MPG, mainly on the freeway, the rpms are certainly higher than on an M6.

It was annoying for me to find out that while these cars are rated 10% worse on the DSG in germany, we don't see that transfer into the us (on the golfs) looks like on the passat that was somewhat reflected

In the city cycle the DSG seems to do better than a manual because it shifts frequently below 2000rpms.
 

TomB

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On the golfs, the DSG robs about 10-15% of MPG, mainly on the freeway, the rpms are certainly higher than on an M6.
Got the data to prove this? :eek:

Has anyone heard that on the DSG they set it to "coast" when you let up off the fuel instead of applying the compression breaking like the standard automatics on the 05 Passats?

Is this true if you are in Sports mode or downshifting it with the tiptronic?
 
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