real world EVs review

[burpod]

none of this matters in the long run, especially when most people can barely drive. at least sanely, without screwing everyone else up or crashing into them. electric or not, such a drop in the bucket

 

[turbobrick240]

Tesla is producing the refreshed Model 3 "Highland" at the Fremont plant in California now. It's been available in China and Europe for a few months. I really like the look of the gen1 model 3, but I think the slightly more agressive new look is great too. The best aspect of the new design is improved aero, imo. They raised the price when it was introduced in China, but not doing that here apparently. Seems like a smart strategy to help offset the loss of the $7500 federal rebate on the two lower trims.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/photos/g46342088/2024-tesla-model-3-every-angle/

 

[Lightflyer1]

I will just keep buying others castoffs I guess. No way will I pay the cost of a new car any more, electric or IC. Much more useful to keep buying others useful broken cars and repair and drive. Just added a 2007 Tahoe and a 2008 Ford F150 4x4. Less than $7k for the two including repairs and service. I had to laugh to myself when I saw an add to take over someone's lease at $1,700 a month (Tesla), on Craigslist yesterday.

 

[lemoncurd]

i still see no practical reason for an EV. it's certainly not saving any money in the long run

ehh, from my math the tesla model 3's or even y's are good buy IF youre looking to purchase a newer, not even just new, vehicle.

i drive enough to make the cost difference between electric and diesel/gas quite substantial, talking like $300-400/month here.
factor this in with the fact a new vehicle will come with a warranty, have all the ADAS toys i want to play around with (bypass autopilot and install my own system of choice, do other tinkering too), and with the fact a new model 3 long range isnt that much more than a nice used audi s4, a7 tdi, or similar vehicles, they start to make alot of sense.

wether people like EV's or not, the fact of the matter is, Tesla's are selling like hotcakes. so theyres obviously a market.

now, i will note that because the model 3 doesn't qualify for the federal tax credit, it's harder to justify the cost. but the model Y still qualifies.. so there's that.

edit: in the long run, i figure i would be able to repair the battery pack myself, and swap out the drive unit inverters myself aswell. electronic's are kind of my jam, and i have been doing stuff with them since way before i got involved with car stuff.
the only downside to that plan would be the requirement of a 2post car lift.

 

[oilhammer]

Oh they're "hotcakes" alright:

Hundreds of Brand New Teslas Piling Up in Junk Yards | flyingpenguin

www.flyingpenguin.com

There were two more in the local news here recently. And now many salvage yards won't take the crashed ones because they evidently can burst into flames all by themselves.

 

[turbobrick240]

It's pretty nuts how fast the Supercharger network is growing. Maine is hardly a hotbed of EV adoption, yet there are 14 separate Supercharger sites within an 80 mile radius of my rural hometown! Elon may be a weirdo and almost certainly a bigot, but building the supercharger network was a brilliant move.

 

[TomJD]

ehh, from my math the tesla model 3's or even y's are good buy IF youre looking to purchase a newer, not even just new, vehicle.

i drive enough to make the cost difference between electric and diesel/gas quite substantial, talking like $300-400/month here.
factor this in with the fact a new vehicle will come with a warranty, have all the ADAS toys i want to play around with (bypass autopilot and install my own system of choice, do other tinkering too), and with the fact a new model 3 long range isnt that much more than a nice used audi s4, a7 tdi, or similar vehicles, they start to make alot of sense.

wether people like EV's or not, the fact of the matter is, Tesla's are selling like hotcakes. so theyres obviously a market.

now, i will note that because the model 3 doesn't qualify for the federal tax credit, it's harder to justify the cost. but the model Y still qualifies.. so there's that.

I’m sure your situation is different and I recognize variables here. I talk price savings per mile set since we all drive differently each month, but we can relate to say 100k miles.

I need a car I can put 100k miles on every 2.5 to 3 years.

My math:

100,000 miles on Diesel: $8,021
- 46 mpg average at $3.69 a gallon
100,000 miles on Electric: $4,250
-using Tesla’s efficiency calculator and $0.125/kw

Total electric savings: $3,771 over 100k miles

So then if you focus on EVs that will actually last 100k miles (and not have to worry about issues with the battery), that leaves you with only new or newer EVs or maybe a moderately used Tesla. $30k is pretty much the average price for a car that fits that bill.

Spending $30k to save a few grand didn’t add up for my wife and I.

I can buy a $4,000 Jetta TDI and it will still be worth $4,000 after 100k miles. Heck, maybe even after 200k miles.

 

[turbobrick240]

I pay a lot more than $3.69 for diesel, and would pay a lot more than 12.5¢ kWh for electricity if I didn't make my own. Which is one huge advantage to electricity - you can make your own. I tried making my own biodiesel, but it wasn't practical once the cooking oil supply dried up. Too much hassle, also. Fun experiment for a month though.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

A TDI is going to need other maintenance to go 100K miles: timing belt and most likely brakes, for starters. Although the Tesla may have wear or failures that aren’t covered by warranty as well.

I think the big coat of ownership difference between an older TDI and a newer EV is insurance and tax costs. Insurance on my TDIs is very cheap, and as rates go up I’m happy about that.

 

[Lightflyer1]

Hertz to Sell 20,000 EVs in Shift Back to Gas-Powered Cars
Rental company cites customer demand, costs for fleet change
Hertz announced large purchase of Tesla vehicles in 2021

Hertz to Sell 20,000 EVs in Shift Back to Gas-Powered Cars

Hertz Global Holdings Inc. plans to sell a third of its US electric vehicle fleet and reinvest in gas-powered cars due to weak demand and high repair costs for its battery-powered options.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Daemon64]

its not really the topic of the thread in any case. i've never had a generator. if my power went our for a month, i could survive just fine. got a wood stove and other simple means for cooking food etc. whats the point? most people i know if the power goes out it goes hand in hand with other problems like water damage., if the simplest thing goes wrong they have no idea what to do.. many of these people would be the type of person to own an electric car. just sayin

I've had multiple electric cars, and have no issues w/ generators, water pumps, transfer switches and etc... So i wouldn't say those things are mutually exclusive...

 

[Daemon64]

Oh they're "hotcakes" alright:

Hundreds of Brand New Teslas Piling Up in Junk Yards | flyingpenguin

www.flyingpenguin.com

There were two more in the local news here recently. And now many salvage yards won't take the crashed ones because they evidently can burst into flames all by themselves.

anything inconvenient is easy to ignore, eh? What people should do is recognize the problem, and work on fixing it not putting their heads in the sand

 

[lemoncurd]

Spending $30k to save a few grand didn’t add up for my wife and I.

yes, exactly this. this is why it doesnt make sense for ME to get an EV unless im specifically looking for another vehicle (which i am)

right now i am contending with audi a3 etron, audi a6/7/8 TDI, audi s4 (b9), or a tesla.
if i wasnt looking at cars which cost 20-40k used, i wouldnt be looking at a tesla. i can get a new tesla model Y LR for 38k out the door. it smacks it right in line price wise to the other vehicles i am considering.

once a vehicle crosses the 30k price, i begin seriously considering a tesla instead of it. otherwise, if it is less than 30k a tesla is largely out of the question.

i drive 30-40k miles / year.

 

[lemoncurd]

Oh they're "hotcakes" alright:

Hundreds of Brand New Teslas Piling Up in Junk Yards | flyingpenguin

www.flyingpenguin.com

There were two more in the local news here recently. And now many salvage yards won't take the crashed ones because they evidently can burst into flames all by themselves.

because yellow page journalism is a great source for finding information right?

the numbers dont lie, tesla is making TONS of vehicle sales. i never said anything about what happens afterwards.

i STRONGLY disagree with tesla's stances on numerous things, charging network access, ADAS solutions, and right to repair. that doesnt mean im going to ignore the objective facts which are being one of the most popular EV's in the world right now.

inb4 the "well BYD outsold tesla in Q4"
they didnt. if you look at the report, they only did so by adding in hybrid vehicle sales. if you compare pure bEV sales, nothing beats tesla. they obviously have done something right to do this year over year.

 

[lemoncurd]

Insurance on my TDIs is very cheap, and as rates go up I’m happy about that.

this is anecdotal. my TDI is roughly $100-200 cheaper / 6 months to insure compared to a model 3. not much a difference, especially once you factor in my vehicle is a decade old, and a tesla is well... not.

 

[oilhammer]

If I paid $200 every 6 months, I'd be looking for another carrier.... let alone that much cheaper, LOL. Of course, that is a regional cost thing I'm sure (rates are pretty cheap here, and I don't carry full coverage because I'm good at math). No idea what a Tesla would be to insure, I'd never own one anyway, and it isn't like I could compare a 20+ year old one anyway (doubtful I ever will).

And once they hit 20 years old, should be dirt cheap for liability because they probably have a range measured in feet instead of miles by that point. Not much liability if you cannot drive it past the end of your driveway!

But again, you New Englanders have a different lens for money. $30k is a cheap used car for you. I didn't spend that much on a brand new completely optionless hatchback.

 

[lemoncurd]

If I paid $200 every 6 months, I'd be looking for another carrier.... let alone that much cheaper, LOL. Of course, that is a regional cost thing I'm sure (rates are pretty cheap here, and I don't carry full coverage because I'm good at math). No idea what a Tesla would be to insure, I'd never own one anyway, and it isn't like I could compare a 20+ year old one anyway (doubtful I ever will).

And once they hit 20 years old, should be dirt cheap for liability because they probably have a range measured in feet instead of miles by that point. Not much liability if you cannot drive it past the end of your driveway!

But again, you New Englanders have a different lens for money. $30k is a cheap used car for you. I didn't spend that much on a brand new completely optionless hatchback.

yeah, and thats understandable. all of it.

i see EV's as a thing which can co-exist with ICE. i never understood why there are people on both sides of the line who say there must only be one or the other.

would an EV be my only vehicle? nope. probably wouldnt even consider it until like 20 years from now.
but would it make an excellent addition to my personal circumstance compared to other vehicle options im considering? absolutely!

now, if i could find some sub 20k used car which tickled my fancy i would totally jump all over that compared to >30k vehicles or a tesla.

because of the current standings on emissions testing, i am very hesitant to buy another TDI like my current one. the hoops i have to jump through currently to keep this thing on the road is not sustainable long term.

 

[turbobrick240]

Plenty of thrifty New Englanders. I paid $5k out the door for the car I'm driving today.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

For an EV to "pencil out" around here service must be available within 100 miles and the OTD price after rebates has to be under $20K. The Bolt could fit through that opportunity window at times, but now it's discontinued and the remaining EVs are over $40K even after rebate.

 

[turbobrick240]

You could go out and buy a brand new Bolt today if you actually had an interest. Or you could buy a lightly used one like this '21 with less than 3k miles for under $20k before rebates.

Used Cars for Sale Near Me - CarGurus

Search pre-owned Used Cars for Sale Near Me listings to find the best local deals. We analyze millions of used cars daily.

www.cargurus.com

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

I'm pretty well stocked up with two TDIs and a minivan so won't be buying for a few years, and with the impracticality of EVs I'll probably be buying a performance IC car before they're discontinued. Only one $27K base model Bolt within 250 miles and with production ended it's probably spoken for by now. Good news is that VW Exec just confirmed that the GTI and Golf R will get updates and still be available in 2025 at least, bad news is no mo' manuals...

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, the no manuals suck... bad enough no diesels, then no Golfs, just GTIs and Rs, and now no manuals... I mean, I don't know how much I could stomach the EA888 engine anyway (they are SO FRAGILE I'd probably be afraid to even drive it), but the last and final reason to even consider one will go away with that clutch pedal.

 

[lemoncurd]

I don't know how much I could stomach the EA888 engine anyway (they are SO FRAGILE I'd probably be afraid to even drive it)

huh??

sure, the gen 1 and gen 2 ea888's have issues. chains, water pumps, leaks, etc. but the gen 3 has been dead on reliable.

 

[oilhammer]

Reliable for my paycheck, LMAO....

The one I just did, didn't even make it to 80k. 2015 GTI. The take out engine is still here sitting on the floor. Have a 2019 Tiguan to do next.

 

[turbobrick240]

No worries about the vanishing manual transmission- Toyota is working on a super slick faux 6mt. Supposedly it's even better than the real thing.

I Drove Toyota's Manual Transmission For EVs. It's Much More Fun Than You Think

It’s a crazy idea. It’s also a blast to drive, and may keep the manual alive a little while longer.

insideevs-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[lemoncurd]

Reliable for my paycheck, LMAO....

The one I just did, didn't even make it to 80k. 2015 GTI. The take out engine is still here sitting on the floor. Have a 2019 Tiguan to do next.

View attachment 135401

what went wrong with it? generally speaking, ive only seen or heard of the gen 3's failing from either abuse or neglect.

 

[oilhammer]

Lost oil pressure, blew the chains... one of the several same reasons the other EA888s die. Not sure why you'd think these would be any better, it isn't like they "fixed" much of anything. And the newest ones spec 0w20! Which makes them even worse! Plastic oil pans, and if the chronic blown plastic oil pump housings were not bad enough, let's make them ELECTRONIC thermostats in just-as-craptastic plastic water pump housings!!! YAY!!!

I've had water pumps blown on these things with less than 30k miles on the clock in here already!

Older ones had one problematic cam phaser... now the new ones have TWO! Twice the fail!

And now the latest gem: the injector harness causing misfires, and the way to "check" it has you swapping injectors around to see if it follows the cylinder. Seriously... I guess these guys never actually swapped injectors on one of these engines.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Maybe by 2027 when I buy a Golf GTI or R they'll have the ea888 debugged, finally. Maybe...

 

[turbobrick240]

Get the 911. Those flat sixes rock.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Could afford to buy a 911, but the fixed and operating costs on a six figure car are too much. Maybe compromise and get a Cayman?