real world EVs review

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Happy Thanksgiving to you too. I will add that my Ram Ecodiesel gets 22 mpg (lifetime) while the JSW gets about 35.
 

J_dude

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Location
SK Canada
TDI
2003 1.9l “Jedi”
This being thanks giving time, let us together give thanks for the fact we drive 40+ MPG TDIs that emit half the Green House Gasses and use half the precious resources of the monster new trucks and SUVs the auto industry want us to buy!
And will outlast them too. By a long shot.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Some of the smarter environmentalists I know have a valid argument that we seldom improve the environment by buying more and often bigger stuff- Even if an EV uses less carbon fuels, there's still a huge amount of carbon burnt just to make and deliver it and thus it will be tens and sometimes hundreds of thousands of miles before it can emit less carbon than the IC car it re-homed. In fact, the act of simply turning unneeded stuff off instead of buying more is best for the environment- For example, by zoning off and heating just a third of my house in the winter I save money and the environment besides not having to carry as many heavy bags of wood pellets in.
 
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IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Although it seems to be true it has always puzzled me that driving an older, efficient vehicle is more harmful to the environment than driving a new, less efficient vehicle with better emissions controls, or an EV. But it is.

Despite that, I don't feel any guilt about me and my son continuing to drive TDIs that are well past their service life. The average driver in the us would have owned 4 or 5 vehicles in the time I've driven IBW. And my ownership time of my other TDIs is approaching or over 10 years. Last vehicle I purchased was my 2015 GSW in 2017. That's now past its trade in time for most owners, too.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Nothing to feel guilty about, I've used Argonne National Labs total life GHG calculator and running on B20 in the summer my TDIs produce about the same amount of GHG as an EV running on our grid mix of maybe 20% renewables out here. In the winter they switch to B5 in Minnesota, but the solar output goes way down so the grid mix gets dirtier too. So if I switched to an EV it would accomplish nothing, the 2nd owner of my Golf7 TDI would probably drive more miles, and scrapping my Golf4 TDI just further litters our rural landscape.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
…driving an older, efficient vehicle is more harmful to the environment than driving a new, less efficient vehicle with better emissions controls, or an EV. But it is.
Says who? They’ll have to prove the impossible on paper, which is that manufacturing a new vehicle is less costly than maintaining an old one. Anyone that thinks they can has truly swallowed the Kool-Aid.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I know that's not the whole picture. But it's always bugged me that my Jetta Wagon getting 50 MPG will pollute more than, say, a new F150 getting FE in the teens.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Much of the problem is that we typically send a vehicle to the scrapyard when over 90% of it is still functional. Not surprising when most vehicles were never designed to be repaired and just rust repair to the body can total a vehicle that otherwise still runs fine. We need vehicles like the old tractors around here, many of which are still working after more than a half century.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I wouldn't feel very safe driving my '48 Farmall 70 mph down the interstate.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Much of the problem is that we typically send a vehicle to the scrapyard when over 90% of it is still functional. Not surprising when most vehicles were never designed to be repaired and just rust repair to the body can total a vehicle that otherwise still runs fine. We need vehicles like the old tractors around here, many of which are still working after more than a half century.
But ask any farmer how much work it takes to keep those old tractors functionable. Not just running for parades but being able to work the fields. I know my cousins have a "parade" tractor from the 50s. Took a lot of work and money to restore it. Of course, they also have new (er) tractors and combines to do the actual farm work.

I'll add that they're a few 100 miles south of you so similar farming area but you don't see many old tractors running in the fields.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Talking to some of the young farmers at Farmer's Union events they tell me they're literally dragging old tractors out of the groves and rebuilding them because the new tractors are too expensive and often not designed for tillage. The Ford N series was a classic design built from the late 30s through the early 50s and the similar Ferguson hung around much longer- Massey-Ferguson is still building the same basic design with a diesel engine. Half of those Fords survive, and I often see them doing mowing and the work.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
I wouldn't feel very safe driving my '48 Farmall 70 mph down the interstate.
Don't give the street rodders ideas...

I've been looking for a small tractor for parades, and a Co-Op would be my favorite. But they're rare and too heavy to trailer with my TDI or minivan. So I've been thinking of building a replica on a street rod chassis...
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
How rebuildable are the Hoyt-Clagwell tractors?
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Location
Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
TDI
2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
That was a "badge engineered" Fordson and is as rebuildable as any Fordson from that century ago era.
I'm always quite amused when I come back to this thread. It's gone through such a wild set of sprawling subjects. Not complaining but didn't think we'd be talking about tractors of all things. I've had a few friends rebuild tractors from the 30s to 50s for years now. It's pretty popular in New Hampshire and they're used regularly. But to be fair in general we don't have sprawling mega farms either and that likely had more to do with it... people homesteading and recycling for their needs.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Don't give the street rodders ideas...

I've been looking for a small tractor for parades, and a Co-Op would be my favorite. But they're rare and too heavy to trailer with my TDI or minivan. So I've been thinking of building a replica on a street rod chassis...
What's a Co-Op? The old iron still gets some use around here, mostly pulling tedders and hay rakes. I personally love the old offset cultivating tractors.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
I live in Lyon County in southwest Minnesota, flat prairies with mostly big acreage farms. These guys bid up the price of land to the point they'd be better off putting their money in CDs, never mind the better long term returns of the stock market. To cover all that acreage they buy the biggest tractors and implements available and lay on the fertilizer and pesticides, despite low crop prices that force them to take a job in town to survive. As a John Deere stockholder I appreciate their efforts, but they should really do the numbers someday...
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Looked up the Co-op tractors. Those basically don't exist around here. I love them all, Oliver, JD, IH, Allis-Chalmers, Massey Harris/Ferguson etc.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
What's a Co-Op? The old iron still gets some use around here, mostly pulling tedders and hay rakes. I personally love the old offset cultivating tractors.
A long series of tractor models produced for and sometimes by the farmers Co-ops because the available tractors were too expensive and didn't do the job as well. Started out with their own designs in the 1930s which were known for their road speed as they used Chrysler flatbed 6s and truck transmissions and axles. They later switched to rebranded Cockshutt tractors. The Co-op brand appears to still be selling implements in western Canada and the Japanese farmers union still makes bulk buys of tractors for their members and resells them under the "Satoh" brand.
 

BamaB4S

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
AL
TDI
1996 Passat
Was a delegate to the Minnesota Farmer's Union convention last weekend, and big renewable energy projects got a cool reception. For background, Farmers Union is mostly the smaller family farmers and they lean left, while Farm Bureau lobbies for the big corporate farmers and leans decidedly right. Farmers Union recognizes climate change and takes it seriously, as my policy resolution calling for declaring a climate change emergency sailed through without opposition or even debate. But farm sized solar projects and giant wind turbines are being treated with suspicion. And while most ethanol plants are farmer owned, the two companies planning massive "carbon capture" projects have so angered farmers on both sides of the political spectrum with their heavy handed easement grabs that they're one of the few groups that have been able to unite both sides of the American political spectrum, against them. The takeaway is that the huge infrastructure projects needed to feed mass EV adoption will take decades rather than years to even start construction.
El Niño just giggled.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've considered going off grid, but the problem with that here in New England is that you need many more solar panels than you do with net metering, or huge storage capacity. Solar production this time of year is very low, and I would need 2-3x as much production to meet demand. And net metering supports my higher energy use in the summer (pool & A/C) with power generated in April and May. Without net metering, once the batteries are charged, the system would shed power. Right now I can use every kwH I generate.
 

BamaB4S

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
AL
TDI
1996 Passat
As technology improves for the most part, the air quality won't become cleaner as the polluting will remain close or the same. Fossil fuel is still a main source for power, Ice cars still being driven especially Diesel trucks and trains. It will all ways be an endless battle.
And let's not forget to mention those pesky unmanageable volcanic eruptions 😂
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I filled IBW late afternoon last Sunday. By the same time today I'd driven it 700 miles. Low fuel light isn't on yet. I don't know where I go, but driving this much in a week isn't uncommon.

I was thinking while driving back from Western MA this morning that if I had an EV I would probably have had 8 or 9 charging sessions in the last week: Charging each evening at home and a couple additional charge sessions today as I drove about 300 miles today. So that's 9 times I would have had to plug the car in, and set up the charging parameters. And today it would have meant two stops (one going, one returning) for maybe 20 min to add range. Of course I had zero fueling events in IBW last week.

It's chilly and rainy today, and although Tesla now has chargers at Mass Pike service areas, they are on the far side of the parking lot and not covered. And today I drove straight home without stopping, which would not have been possible in an EV, most likely, running at 80 MPH in the rain with heat on in the car.

Sounds like a hassle to me.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I've considered going off grid, but the problem with that here in New England is that you need many more solar panels than you do with net metering, or huge storage capacity. Solar production this time of year is very low, and I would need 2-3x as much production to meet demand. And net metering supports my higher energy use in the summer (pool & A/C) with power generated in April and May. Without net metering, once the batteries are charged, the system would shed power. Right now I can use every kwH I generate.
Last time I priced out solar, the battery wall was as expensive as the panels. If I had an e-car, then I would want the battery wall to charge when I want.
 
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