real world EVs review

turbodieseldyke

Top Post Dawg
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Free Mustache Rides
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Big ol' honkin' tdis
Crashing isn't always your choice. The roads are a democracy and the other moron's vote is equal to yours.

You can't educate a woman's feelings, and they feel unsafe surrounded by bigger cars. I feel "inconvenienced" surrounded by them because I can't see around them, but I'm not going to triple my gas usage to even the playing field for myself.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
The desire for big vehicles and trucks isn't limited to women. My son is a carpenter, and recently one of the subs at the house he's building looked at his JSW and said "I hate those little cars." Everyone on his job except for another carpenter (who has a 2.5l Golf) drives a truck. And none of them are close to the job site: My son drives over 100 miles a day. He was upset about the loss in FE going to a MK6 from his ALH Golf, and can't imagine driving a vehicle that gets FE in the teens.

He doesn't understand it: these guys aren't rich and their trucks are making them broke. And his tools are safe and dry in the JSW.
 

gmenounos

Vendor
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Jun 26, 2003
Location
Watertown, MA, USA
TDI
'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
the P2 which is a fairly efficient in EV terms averaging 95MPGE / hwy which is 355 watts /mi
1695941892740.png

I guess I should stop driving like a grandma. :)

Gas Vehicle highway efficiency needed to Produce only 159.74 g/mi ( 20lbs of CO2 in 1 gallon of gasoline, 453.592 grams in a pound ) -- 57 MPG -- This comes out to 159.16 g/mi -- Prius comes pretty close at 53MPG EPA highway rating.
And it's very difficult to build an ICE vehicle that is that efficient and that people also want to buy, at least in the US.

Prius if added small turbo, & plasma spark could likely get there or better.
Which would make the Rube Goldberg hybrid power train even more complex, thus more expensive to buy and more expensive to service (good for @oilhammer but not for the car owner).
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
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Only the B4V left
When a Mini Cooper collides with a Yukon, who wins, or more aptly, who loses the most?
I can answer that question. I was driving into work one day and saw a head-on collision between a mini Cooper and a full-size Silverado pick up truck. I was only able to see the front of the truck. Which was completely and utterly destroyed, with the engine not in its correct place. Seeing the other vehicle was a mini Cooper, I cringed at the thought of seeing the front, but when I drove around it, it looked like the mini Cooper could still be driven home. I was impressed that the damage the mini Cooper did to that full-size truck, so my money is on the mini Cooper
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
It's all in the crumple and crush zones. If you can protect the passenger compartment, all else can be sacrificed.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
This morning I happened to see a major accident on the limited access highway I use daily. Three or 4 cars in the accident. Two of the were CUVs of some sort, not readily identifiable. The third car was a Smart Car. The CUVs were damaged enough that I couldn't identify what they were. The Smart was not nearly as seriously damaged.


This caused me to recall at Top Gear episode where they smashed a Smart Car into a concrete barrier. The structure remained intact and protected the passenger compartment, but data gathered from the collision indicated the driver would have most likely died because of the sudden decelleration. You can have a strong vehicle, but if it doesn't have an adequate crumple zone it could kill you regardless.
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Location
Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
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2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
View attachment 133495

I guess I should stop driving like a grandma. :)



And it's very difficult to build an ICE vehicle that is that efficient and that people also want to buy, at least in the US.



Which would make the Rube Goldberg hybrid power train even more complex, thus more expensive to buy and more expensive to service (good for @oilhammer but not for the car owner).
This largely depends on intended use. If you do a ton of like 65 and below driving in an EV you can get crazy numbers. Like that's a really good use case for such a vehicle. But it's highway that matters to the majority of people for the majority of their miles and that's when efficiency is hurt in regards to EVs. The P2 can get those types of efficiency numbers but not with an average of faster driving.

Prius hybrid powertrain has been around forever is and is VERY reliable, small turbocharged engines have been around forever and are very reliable. The only "new" thing in that equation is plasma spark. Hybrids with turbo engines are nothing new.

Making efficient gas cars that sell is not difficult their just more expensive, but they cannot be more expensive than an equivalent EV... just saying

On that point my 6spd golf tdi could and would easily get 45MPG. How much better would that mileage have been with a ZF 8spd, instead of say a 6spd DSG or man like i had. What about the achates power OP engine running diesel which in terms of efficiency should walk away from the VAG 2.0....


The same achates power motor was shown in diesel to be north of 47MPG on an F150 -- That would put it in the range of an electric in terms of CO2. The sparkless gas variant would also be inline.

The problem with saying it can't be done is that it CAN. The engines from chevy say the LS, or VAG 2.0 or etc.. are iterative only. Whereas the achates power takes older technology that was abandoned and sets much newer processes against it, and is able to effectively dramatically increase its orig efficiency, the samething is true of the plasma ignition...
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The Prius powertrain has NOT been around that long, as it keeps changing... dramatically. Like, every single part. And as they age, they're reliability goes down significantly. We work on a LOT of Toyota hybrids here. Batteries, inverters, coolant pumps, coolant valves, EGR coolers, catalysts, and of course engines.... Lots and lots of engines.

 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I've heard some Prius engines are prone to head gasket failure. Is that correct?
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
50/50 shot of the head gasket or the head cracked itself. The 2ZR-FXE, which is the hybrid version of the 2ZR-FE 1.8L. The non-hybrid versions don't do this. So something with the hybrid version causes it, and it is pretty common.

Luckily, Prius drivers crash a lot, and the cars rarely survive even a minor one (they are chintzy... I could probably total one with my bare hands). So there is a pretty constant supply of used lower mileage engines to swap in. The cost to replace the head is prohibitive, and usually they are burning oil like crazy by that point anyway, or have overheated enough that they will.
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
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Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
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2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
The Prius powertrain has NOT been around that long, as it keeps changing... dramatically. Like, every single part. And as they age, they're reliability goes down significantly. We work on a LOT of Toyota hybrids here. Batteries, inverters, coolant pumps, coolant valves, EGR coolers, catalysts, and of course engines.... Lots and lots of engines.


Strange -- I am not surprised that you see plenty of them with 2.5M of them sold in the US alone since inception. I mean its nowhere near the F150 but it has to be one of the more common cars on the road. I've only had anecdotal evidence of friends of friends, family members etc... owning them and never having issues in 200k+ miles which is pretty decent for a gas car.

I cannot speak to your shop experience and I have no doubts your experience is what it is. Just a misconception on my part I guess after I looked into the data... the issues appear to be more engine related like you mention which is really strange, you'd think they would have fixed that since that vehicle has been in the market since 2005
 

El Dobro

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The EGR systems tend to clog up on the Gen 3 Prii.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
So I read here from time to time about sales of EVs in California specifically "taking off" and that may be a sign of a "tipping point" for the rest of the continental USA. Ok, maybe...

Now how is the trend of building on-the-highway non-Tesla chargers in the remaining 47 continental US states?

Is it also trending upwards exponentially or even close?
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
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2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
So I read here from time to time about sales of EVs in California specifically "taking off" and that may be a sign of a "tipping point" for the rest of the continental USA. Ok, maybe...

Now how is the trend of building on-the-highway non-Tesla chargers in the remaining 47 continental US states?

Is it also trending upwards exponentially or even close?

Well not really, the answer for now is Tesla opening its network to everyone else. But like thats not going all that fast either. So right now non-tesla EV maybe in a worse state than a few months ago. More on the road, maybe a little more charges but the congestion on them hasn't lightened up, and might even be worse.... thats my anecdotal. But its one of those things that it will get worse before it gets better IMO.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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I saw an amusing Boston TV news story late last week saying that someone was going to take over the non-operating EvGo chargers on the Mass Pike. The tease for the story included "and when they will be available for use." The reporter in the story said "we do not have a timetable for when these will be operating again." I guess it's not that amusing if you drive a non-Tesla EV on the Mass Pike.

They did say there are a grand total of 3 of them on the 130 miles of the Pike.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Electrify America just opened a fast charging location at the Grand Canyon. Not quite as exciting as the typical Wal-Mart placement, but the Grand Canyon is kinda nice. Maybe they'll even maintain the chargers.

 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
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Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
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Only the B4V left
Electrify America just opened a fast charging location at the Grand Canyon. Not quite as exciting as the typical Wal-Mart placement, but the Grand Canyon is kinda nice. Maybe they'll even maintain the chargers.

I read the article, and since the Grand Canyon is not too far away, something struck me as odd, "A trip to the Grand Canyon was previously challenging for many EVs. The South Rim is about 160 miles from Flagstaff, Arizona, the nearest large city, and there are few places to stop in between."

The maximum distance from Flagstaff to the Grand Canyon (which is slightly above Tusayan) is 80 miles, not 160 miles. They are figuring someone in an EV traveling to there and then back again as the distance, which is not "from". I'm not sure why they can't just tell the truth and not embellish to make things look different from what they actually are, probably because it won't sound as impressive.

By the way, there were already Tesla chargers in Tusayan and have been since 2019. Tusayan is only 7 miles from the Grand Canyon so the article is much to do about nothing other than to make headlines.

If anyone makes it out west and wants to visit the Grand Canyon, I have a season pass and it never gets old. I even go biking up there in the winter on my fatbike.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The only thing that seems to be "taking off" (as in, moving out) in Califailia is a bunch of businesses and retail stores. I don't look to them as a sign of something to strive for, although downtown STL does evidently have a nice homeless camp, complete with fecal piles and discarded drug needles.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Despite the anecdotal accounts of "everyone is leaving California", the immigrants keep coming and have helped make California something like the world's 5th largest economy.

As for St.Louis, it's been a disaster for decades- I used to work for Continental Baking which was owned for a while by Ralston Purina in St.Louis and made a few business trips there. The corporate office was a fenced compound with it's own security and the bakery on the north side was about the only legal business left in the neighborhood. Had to stop downtown once and couldn't find a working parking meter to take my coins. Now that I'm retired I drove through St.Louis a couple times a year on the way from MN to FL and back, St.Loius is improving but it's telling that the traffic is lighter going through the city than on the ring roads going through the suburbs. Strangely enough the area around the old bakery on North Broadway had changed for the better, the demand for warehouse space has revived that old industrial area with it's access to rail and the river.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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Jay Leno recently had a chance to test drive a Tesla Semi (even hitched onto a load), and came away very impressed.

 

IndigoBlueWagon

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El Dobro

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gearheadgrrrl

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Not directly, but the auto business in general gets a lot of indirect subsidies in the form of road costs beyond what fuel taxes cover, lost property taxes from buildable land that gets used for parking and roads, and the water and sewage loads from convenience stores.
 

tikal

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At this point it does not seem that Tesla opening their on-the-highway chargers to the various other EVs will be a win-win situation in the foreseeable future. I could be wrong.

Then, you have posts like this, from people in the state that supposed to be on the cutting edge of EV charging station availability:

https://flic.kr/p/2p6TCRG
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
EVERYONE gets some sort of subsidy/payout from the gov't. Heck, you needn't even be a citizen, much less an actual taxpayer. That's really much of the problem in a nutshell. Because keeping score is virtually impossible, and since they can just keep printing more money, there really is no need to keep score! It's like 3rd graders playing soccer.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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As part of the government (small town council member) I'll confess- Guilty as charged! I pushed through a $700K replacement of our failing water system, with a tax base of less than a million dollars we could never have done it without state and federal funding. I do most of the paperwork on these projects, we're getting about $5K from American Recovery Act directly and another $50K through the county which allowed us to give our two part times employees well deserved raises and the rest will go into much needed street repairs. Individually, I collected unemployment insurance on and off for four years during the Great Recession and I offset most of my income taxes with credits for wood stoves and such. What's amazing is that a quarter of the local governments in my state never even did the paperwork to get the ARA funds and many taxpayers don't even file for these tax credits, all while complaining about "big government" and taxes!
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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At this point it does not seem that Tesla opening their on-the-highway chargers to the various other EVs will be a win-win situation in the foreseeable future. I could be wrong.

https://flic.kr/p/2p6TCRG
Maybe it depends on the acuity of one's foresight, but I think many CCS EV owners will be very glad to have a reliable and large supercharging network available starting next year. EA has absolutely dropped the ball, but I wouldn't write them off entirely just yet.
 
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