real world EVs review

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Yeah, they were made of carbon fiber... and a 'few hundred' would hardly constitute "production" to me. The Veyron was in the 'few hundred' range, too.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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Nov 18, 2014
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I didn't mean to degrade the XL1 as a production car, was more pointing out that it is intact practical to most people which is why there was limited success... whereas this has application possibilities to existing vehicle stock

Supposedly the plasma thing has been around a long time and proven but they've never been able to make them smaller than a fridge and they were super expensive. The point of this is the guy has shrunk the process, it's cheap, and reliable. I'd read more about it if I were you.
Ok, I read up some more. It seems that there are numerous ways of generating the plasma, including lasers, corona discharge, and microwaves among others. The lab results I saw indicated up to a 20% increase in fuel efficiency. That's pretty good. But it comes by burning a leaner fuel mixture that in turn creates less CO2, CO, and hydrocarbons, but more NOx. I guess there's no free lunch in internal combustion.
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Yeah, they were made of carbon fiber... and a 'few hundred' would hardly constitute "production" to me. The Veyron was in the 'few hundred' range, too.
Limited production for sure. I'm not aware of any manufacturers that made a run of 250 concept vehicles and sold them to the general public.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
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Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
And speaking of "no free lunch", I would argue that this is an exponentially bigger problem for the whole automotive industry (among others), as the powers of the world are doing their best to hide from each other natural resources necessary for any kind of evolution and revolution of our transportation means and free trade.

For the time being, looking at planet earth becoming more like disconnected islands ... 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️
 

dieseldonato

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Us
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2001 jetta
Honestly I can understand that to an extent, I love my tdi, but 2adults 2 kids and 2 dogs gets real cramped real quick. Easier to take the expedition or her escape and the escape is tight on room with the dogs.
 

dieseldonato

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2001 jetta
I did have a thought with all the ev stuff. Why do they have such high hp? There's is really no need for it, makes the vehicles heavier, less efficient and hog more materials. In the greater scheme of "green" we should be conserving resources, not bragging that I have a 500hp twin motor ev when we've proven sedans and small suvs can accomplish the same thing with 100hp on tap. Is anything it's another knock against moamst ev's being green or anything of the sort. Even not tapping into the power if you have it has parasitic losses from extra mass of materials being drug around here and there.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Agreed, but look around and observe traffic. The VAST majority of cars on the road have the driver in them, and nobody else.

My daily drivers have been: '73 Beetle, '79 Rabbit, '91 Jetta, '00 Golf.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Honestly I can understand that to an extent, I love my tdi, but 2adults 2 kids and 2 dogs gets real cramped real quick. Easier to take the expedition or her escape and the escape is tight on room with the dogs.
I took my teenage sons (and usually a friend of theirs) on countless snowboarding trips in my MKIV Jetta Wagon with a Thule box on the roof. Yes, the back seat is tight, but if the front seat occupants cooperate it's OK. And it helps that I'm short. If one of them mentioned the lack of space, my answer was that the car's FE allowed us to afford snowboarding trips.
 

dieseldonato

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Us
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2001 jetta
Agreed, but look around and observe traffic. The VAST majority of cars on the road have the driver in them, and nobody else.

My daily drivers have been: '73 Beetle, '79 Rabbit, '91 Jetta, '00 Golf.
I agree. One of the reasons I started looking for another car after we sold my wife's focus. Driving one of the trucks or the expedition doesn't make sense financially for me. Better the have a smaller efficient vehicle for the day to day commute. What I spend in a month on diesel( or gas in the case of the focus) wad about 8 days worth in the truck and 10 days worth in the expedition. Saves a ton of money in a month. And everything is cheap for the car so saves in maintenance costs as well.
 

dieseldonato

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Us
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2001 jetta
I took my teenage sons (and usually a friend of theirs) on countless snowboarding trips in my MKIV Jetta Wagon with a Thule box on the roof. Yes, the back seat is tight, but if the front seat occupants cooperate it's OK. And it helps that I'm short. If one of them mentioned the lack of space, my answer was that the car's FE allowed us to afford snowboarding trips.
Can't put 2 golden retrievers on the roof, possibly the kids.... lol. But yeah, it's fine for my daily stuff till "the whole family" has to go somewhere. Wasn't such an issue when we just had our Sheppard. The kids arnt crazy about the dogs sitting on their lap. I have a feeling a wagon will be in the future...
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Exactly. Plus, it makes it easier to look past the eye-watering cost and limited use if it has Corvette-punishing performance and lets you brag to your rich friends at the country club. :D

But to be fair, the Leaf and similar more plebeian EVs are not ridiculous fast accelerating like the fancy ones are.
 

El Dobro

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Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
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2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
The Bolts have a single 200hp and it works just fine.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
Agreed, but look around and observe traffic. The VAST majority of cars on the road have the driver in them, and nobody else.

My daily drivers have been: '73 Beetle, '79 Rabbit, '91 Jetta, '00 Golf.
I think it definitely depends on locale, too. When I visit CA, it's mostly EVs, hybrids, small SUVs and compact cars. Some trucks, but nowhere near as plentiful as TX, OK, NM, etc.

I had people ask me when I first moved out here why I tow with a TDI. I asked them if they were going to pay for my diesel at 11-13mpg in my F450 and that shut them up really quick (I only use the truck when I have to tow or get round bales of hay).
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
I drove down to NYC on Sunday and Routes 95 and 278 near the city are rough enough that I was grateful for my 65 series tires. Anything much lower profile probably would have resulted in a bent wheel or two. 21s? No thank you, at least as long as I continue to drive in the real world.
What's the scoop with crazy large tires anyways? Do they offer better handling, or is it more for appearance? I personally prefer 16 and 17" on my TDIs (and truck). 15's for me get relegated to my trailers. I don't see the point in anything larger than an 18, but like I said, I don't know if they handle better or if it's simply aesthetics.
 

gmenounos

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Location
Watertown, MA, USA
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'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
Exactly. Plus, it makes it easier to look past the eye-watering cost and limited use if it has Corvette-punishing performance and lets you brag to your rich friends at the country club. :D
Limited use: We've got 9,900 miles on ours since January and we use it for almost all driving. Just did a 720 mile road trip last weekend and another 180 miles today and both were easy. The only thing I'm not going to use it for yet is towing. Will use the Golf for that for now (not so much because of range but haven't done a lot of reading on which hitch to buy and the whether it would affect the car's warranty).

Unrelated (well, kind of related): Finally got our solar panels (15 x 400w) installed a couple weeks ago and on Monday got permission from the power company to turn them on. 64 kWh generated so far this week.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
Limited use: We've got 9,900 miles on ours since January and we use it for almost all driving. Just did a 720 mile road trip last weekend and another 180 miles today and both were easy. The only thing I'm not going to use it for yet is towing. Will use the Golf for that for now (not so much because of range but haven't done a lot of reading on which hitch to buy and the whether it would affect the car's warranty).

Unrelated (well, kind of related): Finally got our solar panels (15 x 400w) installed a couple weeks ago and on Monday got permission from the power company to turn them on. 64 kWh generated so far this week.
Nice on the solar panels. I'd love to do the same if it made financial sense for me.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I've been trying to convince my uncle to put some panels on his roof. He says he wants some, but then makes up excuses about shading and such. I was just up on his roof last week fixing some chimney flashing, and there is zero shading. It does face pretty much due SW, but the penalty for that is only about 8% vs. due S. And the economics can even be better if the utility pays more during peak hours.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Maybe zero shading in early September, but what about in December? And as I'm sure you know, any good solar installer will give you an accurate assessment of the extent to which the panels will be shaded when the sun is lowest. Even though my roof with solar is quite a ways from trees, it does get quite a bit of shade from November till February.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
He's just making excuses to justify his tight purse strings. Parts of his yard does get a fair bit of shading, but his house has a decent radius cleared around it. And the roof is three stories up. I climbed up at 9 am and then again at 7 pm (on one of our hotter days this year) and there wasn't shade on the SW pitch.
 

Tin Man

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Nov 18, 2001
Location
Coastal Empire
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Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
Well I'd like to report on our new addition: a green/tan 2023 BMW i4 eDrive35. The car is well equipped and came under lease with a $7500 incentive which BMW rolled into the lease, which comes out to equivalent APR of about 4.3% at the lower MSRP price. My wife wanted it and lets just say her Jaguar did not get good service at the dealer. So far its a dreamy car with very good features, options, and manners. I'm holding on to my 535d which has about 142,000 miles on it....
 

dieseldonato

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Mar 10, 2023
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Us
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2001 jetta
How much heavier is a 500hp elec motor vs a 100hp? And what percentage of the vehicle weight is the motor?
It's quite a big difference in size, weight and all the wiring/ control system needed to make up the difference. I have no idea, what percentage of the car they make up, but I can make an inference from the vfd drive we use at work that it's quite a bit more for the larger motor.

Edit, I guess I should add, I highly doubt any ev motor will sustain its max hp/torque rating for long without overheating. The motors we have are contunous duty rated, I just called one of the electricians to ask about weight and he said one of our 500hp Baldor motors weighs over 4k lbs. 100 hp motor is just over 1200lbs. Both 480v motors.
 
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turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Yeah, comparing industrial motors/engines to consumer grade isn't super useful. An industrial 400 hp Caterpillar diesel is much heavier than a 6.7 Ford, for instance. A 300+ HP Tesla motor weighs just under 100 lbs. The rest of the drive unit/transaxle is heavier, but not too bad. The batteries are where the weight is.
 

dieseldonato

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Yeah, comparing industrial motors/engines to consumer grade isn't super useful. An industrial 400 hp Caterpillar diesel is much heavier than a 6.7 Ford, for instance. A 300+ HP Tesla motor weighs just under 100 lbs. The rest of the drive unit/transaxle is heavier, but not too bad. The batteries are where the weight is.
Actually comparing diesels to diesel is pretty much apples to apples in Indiatrial vs automotive. They are used in both in most cases, typically Industrial will have a continuous and intermittent rating.
 

turbobrick240

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There's some crossover depending on how loosely you want to define an industrial diesel, but a truly industrial 400-500 HP diesel like a Cat 3406 weighs 3x as much as a Ford 6.7. And is a torque monster in comparison- not that the 6.7 is a 98 lb weakling.
 

dieseldonato

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There's some crossover depending on how loosely you want to define an industrial diesel, but a truly industrial 400-500 HP diesel like a Cat 3406 weighs 3x as much as a Ford 6.7. And is a torque monster in comparison- not that the 6.7 is a 98 lb weakling.
you're so far off base it's not even funny. All the ih and cummins engines were in fact industrial engines that were shoved into vehicles. Gm introduced theirs as automotive engines that ended up being used in a few industrial settings. Of the current diesel engines offered by the big 3, with the possible exception of the Ford 6.7l the cummins and duramax have both been fielded in a heavy duty and Industrial setting. To further clarify, cats own 7l is right at the same power levels as the cummins, duramax, And powrstroke. Comparing any of them to a 15l engine is stupid.
 
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