real world EVs review

[Jr mason]

Are you insinuating EV manufacturers aren't getting subsidies and/or heavy tax breaks that don't get passed on to the consumer? I'm not really connecting the dots here. The original comment was in regards to the rebate for purchase of a car. But we could discuss all the "free" public charging stations, and who actually foots that bill. (Hint, it ain't the utility companies.)

I remember Gov Newsome squawking to high hades when Musk pulled out of California. I never fact checked him, and don't put much stock into anything he says, but he claimed Musk took in over $3 billion in subsides in (I think) 11 years. That was allegedly all from California and didn't include Fed as was specifically asked by a reporter.

 

[Zak99b5]

And Exxon supplies the fossil fuels to produce the electricity needed to charge the electric car.

 

[gmenounos]

Are you insinuating EV manufacturers aren't getting subsidies and/or heavy tax breaks that don't get passed on to the consumer? I'm not really connecting the dots here. The original comment was in regards to the rebate for purchase of a car. But we could discuss all the "free" public charging stations, and who actually foots that bill. (Hint, it ain't the utility companies.)

All the auto manufacturers are getting tax breaks. For example: https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/ford-motor

But it's not all bad news. A couple are giving back: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...illion-in-fuel-economy-penalties/70283150007/

 

[turbodieseldyke]

he claimed Musk took in over $3 billion in subsides in (I think) 11 years. That was allegedly all from California

"How dare you leave the company. We gave you bonuses 11 years in a row!"

 

[Jr mason]

All the auto manufacturers are getting tax subsidies.

But I never claimed they weren't.
What I said was.....

Invalid comparison, by a mile. Ain't nobody getting $7500 back on a new purchase of an ICE vehicle.
Nobody.

 

[turbobrick240]

The much loved cash for clunkers program put money directly in consumers pockets for the purchase of new ICEVs. Round two could be coming any year now.

 

[pkhoury]

This is why I ultimately had to retire the '91 Jetta from daily driving duties. It can do 80, so long as it isn't too hot out, but hot days with the A/C running more like 70 to 75 is about it, and it will slow on hills. 52hp can only do so much.

Even though the posted speed limit stayed the same, actually went down to 65 for some of it, the average speeds of the traffic has gone up. 80+ is pretty normal. My biggest issues is the D-wads that camp in the center or left lanes.... I don't understand what is so difficult to grasp about the fact that you are in the wrong lane if other drivers are streaming past you on the right. But every morning, that's what happens.

Or the f-tards that want to camp out in the passing lane, blocking everyone else from passing and then moving back to the right hand land. It's espescially bad on I-10 headed west of here, where you ONLY have two lanes for 500+ miles.

 

[pkhoury]

I think it is an evolving thing, and maybe this is why Tesla seems to be the only one here making headway in EV sales, while the others stagnate and gather dust, or just plain get discontinued. Because the average Tesla buyer craves this techie type interaction, and using a smart phone to be able to work the car, etc.

Some of us not only don't want that, we despise it. I actually LIKE driving. I like the noise, the feel, the connection, etc. I have no desire to drive an iPhone.

That's my #1 complaint with a Tesla. If I had one, I do NOT want that giant screen in the center. I also don't like lane assist or any of that new crap telling me how to drive. It's bad enough that I can't turn off the gear shift recommendation on my JSW that I always see out of the corner of my eye, that I seldom ever follow. But yeah, I have zero desire to integrate my phone with my vehicle. I don't even use my phone half the time as it is, and prefer a laptop/computer.

 

[pkhoury]

On a segue - I have to say that it's nice that Mr. Dizon finally disappeared from the group. This thread has certainly been a lot more civil for nearly the past month.

 

[Jr mason]

Round two could be coming any year now.

Fair play.

Although that was intended as more of an attempt at stimulating the economy than anything. I remember it being touted as a "green" effort but when looking at the whole picture it was anything but.

The next round, if it happens, will be another effort to turn EV mainstream.
It won't be ICE for ICE.

 

[oilhammer]

I'd just rather the gov't not pick winners and losers and let us decide with our own dollars. The second the US gov't became the largest single employer in the country it meant nothing good. The bureaucracy just consumes money with a poor showing of how it was actually spent.

The waste that comes from Boeing (formally McDonnell Douglas) right here in our own back yard is disgraceful. They'll spend $10k in materials and labor to move a machine 10 feet. Then forbid anyone from salvaging anything they threw out. Tons upon tons of perfectly good conduit, fixtures, stranded copper wire, etc. get thrown out every year up there.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Something else to think about as your 3000 pound TDI is surrounded by EVs twice it's weight... https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/as-heavy-evs-proliferate-their-weight-may-be-a-drag-on-safety

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I've driven cars that are smaller and lighter than average since I've been driving. I survived learning to drive in an Austin Healey Sprite and VW Bus. And my MKIV TDIs look tiny compared to most of the vehicles out there, not just EVs. As my dad taught me, always have an escape route and sometimes it's best to accelerate away from a dangerous situation.

 

[turbobrick240]

Something else to think about as your 3000 pound TDI is surrounded by EVs twice it's weight... https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/as-heavy-evs-proliferate-their-weight-may-be-a-drag-on-safety

My 3000 lb VW is surrounded by semi trucks 10 times it's weight when I drive on the interstate. I don't lose much sleep over it.

 

[pkhoury]

The much loved cash for clunkers program put money directly in consumers pockets for the purchase of new ICEVs. Round two could be coming any year now.

I bet it won't be far off from the local Wrench a Part chain. "Sure, we'll give you $500 for your TDI, and $2000 credit on a new $45K Tesla." Yeah, uhh, no.

 

[pkhoury]

If you want to call that a "dealer" experience, fine. But nobody tried to sell me VIN etching, undercoating or an extended warranty.

You forgot about nitrogen filled tires.

Dealerships suck. Many states have laws that try to prevent automakers from selling directly to the consumers and those laws got put on the books due to lobbying by the dealers. All you small government folks ought to be ticked off about that instead of getting bent out of shape about some automaker trying to do something different.

I have no problems with it. I still wonder why they have antiquated Sunday laws in Texas that prohibit the sales of new vehicles on Sundays. So dumb. Same goes for selling hard liquor on Sundays, though a bottle of whisky will also last me a year, so I'm not really affected by it.

But yes, dealerships do suck. That's why so many of us here refer to them as stealerships.

 

[pkhoury]

Come out of Philly on rt1 heading to the turnpike. 90+mph is normal and the cops won't even pull out if traffic is heavy. There's 6 lanes before it necks down at the turnpike interchange to 3. The turnpike is its own cluster depending on the time of day and area you're in. Actually thinking about it seems just about every major highway around here runs quite a bit faster then the speed limit most of the time.

Texas isn't far off, either. Our state's major corridor, I-35, seems to have a normal traffic flow between 75 and 95. The speed limit goes between 55 and 75, depending whether you're rural or in a major metropolitan area. I did once get pulled over for doing 74 in a 60 on the way to the junkyard, but the cop was cool; when I asked for a warning, he was like "Sure, I'll give you a warning, hold on a sec." I even told him I was trying to get to the junkyard before they closed! But elsewhere, people are FLYING. I once asked a cop, who also pulled me over and gave a warning (too much soot on my license plate, before I learned I had a boost leak on my long gone 2010 JSW), what the unofficial thresholds were for speeding on I-10. He said 85mph, you're getting a warning, and 90mph, you're getting a Class C. The speed limit in that area is 75 and 70, but the flow of traffic is definitely between 80 and 90, though you occasionally see drivers from CA and other states driving in the passing lane doing 65-70 and just lingering there.

Ironically - SH-130, which goes from Luling (about 20-30 miles east of San Antonio off I-10) to Georgetown; there's a 39 mile stretch that's rated 85mph, fastest legal speed limit in the US. Yeah, some of us do keep cruise control around 90, but I've seen A LOT of drivers who want to do 70-75, including in the passing lane (so annoying). Almost ironic how the ultra fast speed limit results in people going slower, but the slower speed limits result in people zipping by.

Also, San Antonio got its first HOV lanes when they did improvements on I-10 a few years ago. I've never heard of anyone getting pulled over for using the HOV lane without having 2 or more passengers (no comment). There are no barricades, no warnings about fines, and I've only ever seen police in that area actually doing patrol maybe once? I'm sure they figure they have better things to do. Most people seem to use them as passing lanes or ultra fast lanes, anyways.

 

[compu_85]

Something else to think about as your 3000 pound TDI is surrounded by EVs twice it's weight...

The model 3 is ~4000 lbs, 1000lbs heavier than the Mk4, or current Jetta. Actually, the Tesla is about the same weight as my old Benz. A current S-Class is 5500 lbs. The heaviest model S is 5400lbs.

-J

 

[gmenounos]

If you leave them on "auto", the DRLs will be on during the day and then the lows/highs/tails will come on when it gets dark. I don't think the low beams come on automatically in rain unless it also gets dark enough. I had assumed that they'd come on automatically when the wipers do, but there's no mention of it in the manual (so thanks for reminding me to check): https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-371B94E9-E74F-4BBB-9A55-5F4182894B99.html

Just got an update last night. Now the lights will come on automatically when the wipers do. (Don't tease me about the Vampire Survivors game that was also included in the update. Potentially something to play around with while charging, but I'll probably never bother.)

 

[Rob Mayercik]

(Don't tease me about the Vampire Survivors game that was also included in the update. Potentially something to play around with while charging, but I'll probably never bother.)

Oh, my God, now it really IS a PlayStation on wheels!

 

[gmenounos]

The model 3 is ~4000 lbs, 1000lbs heavier than the Mk4, or current Jetta. Actually, the Tesla is about the same weight as my old Benz. A current S-Class is 5500 lbs. The heaviest model S is 5400lbs.

Also keep in mind that kinetic energy is proportional to the weight of the object and the square of its speed. So if you're driving your 3,000 lb. car at 75, it's got almost exactly the same kinetic energy as a my 4,000 lb. EV tootling along at 65.

 

[Daemon64]

For anyone curious. Golf r has 820miles on it now still breaking in for sure. But getting like 31.8mpg so far. Also something super surprising this car loves shifting at 1800rpm, and will happily run in gear as low as 1300-1000rpm... no idea how they pulled off this voodoo magic in a gas car. But when you want to it easily drives like a diesel low rpm, shifting and has decently good low end torque. The car even recommends shifting around 1800rpm... it's weird to me coming from wrx that get pissed if you do that...

 

[turbobrick240]

A brand new Model 3 for $14k ?! This guy managed it:

There's a way to get a brand new Tesla Model 3 for less than $14,000 in California

There’s a way to get a brand new Tesla Model 3 for less than $14,000 in California by stacking a...

electrek.co

 

[oilhammer]

Daemon, I think BMW uses that same magic on the Mini's little 3 cyl. It has no issue with RPMs that I would consider "lugging", and the gearchange indicator definitely wants it to be in as high of a gear as possible. I think they use a fairly heavy flywheel.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I was intrigued by the 1L 3 cylinder engine that the Ford Fiesta got a few years ago. I saw the engine on display at SEMA, and the rep there said it could sit on an 81/2 x 11 sheet of paper. And it had a wet timing belt, although I'm not sure what the implications are of that. A fellow club member owned one, and he said it was fun because you could rev the $hit out of it and it didn't mind. And you weren't going to get arrested.

 

[oilhammer]

I think all those engines blew up. We had a fleet that had a bunch of them in the Focus, every single one blew up. Then they went on backorder from Ford, we had one sitting here for two month and finally they gave up and towed it out of here. Same fleet also had a bunch of the standard 2.0L non-turbo engines in the Focuses, those engines lasted until the transmission failures began (whole other fiasco for Ford). Those felt to me like what I normally associate with a 3 cyl: an angry little raspy chainsaw of a thing, with no torque and the need to keep it at the high end of the RPM range. Thankfully, BMW's B38 engine is nothing like that. It has an impressive 162tq from an amazingly low 1250 rpm all the way to 4300 rpm.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

The little Ford triple strikes me as a great engine for really small cars like classic Minis and maybe even motorcycles, but motivating a Focus is a bit much to ask. As for the Ford 2 liter NA engine, it's a gift from Mazda and is a rev happy little beast with DOHC, variable valve timing, and high compression. Works great in the Miata, but marginal in my Transit Connect van as the automatic transmission gets a workout on the same gentle grades where a TDI happily cruises in top gear. High mileage Transit Connect histories show the rev happy little engine doesn't mind a bit, the transmissions not so much...

 

[oilhammer]

The Ford Duratec 4 cyl is not a Mazda engine. It's all Ford, sprung from the Zetec family. Mazda used them, they gave them a different name, but it is still Ford. Mazda called it the L engine, and they probably collaborated with Ford at the time, as they were majority owned by Ford, but the engine itself is clearly a Ford engine. Right down to the types of fasteners they use and the FoMoCo on all the castings, the filter, etc. All out of the box Ford.

Of course, the Mazda cars of the period were also mostly Ford. The 3 was just a Focus, and the 6 was the Modeo (sold in modified version here as the Fusion). The 5 was a Focus with a top hat.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Not having seen the innards of a Ford engine in decades, I'll defer to oilhammer's wisdom. Ford's 4 cylinder engine family tree is "complicated", with way too many unique designs probably resulting from protectionist tariffs and all the automakers Ford bought and then disposed of. VW's simple engine "genealogy" benefits VW Group and everyone who deals with them, and probably explains how VW Group can profitably build small cars while Ford has pretty much abandoned cars, period.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I liked the last gen (in this market) Focus. I had a couple of the hatchbacks as rental cars and they drove well, even though of course they were autos. However, I drove one from San Diego to LA and even driving fairly gently it struggled to get above 30 MPG. But it was a pleasant car to be in.

Ford hasn't given up on cars worldwide, just in North America. GM and Chrysler have too. Sad. In fact, I think something like 80% of VW's sales in the US are SUVs. That's even sadder.