real world EVs review

[oilhammer]

The local Amazon megacenter has a bunch of those Rivian vans in their fleet now.

 

[J_dude]

If you leave them on "auto", the DRLs will be on during the day and then the lows/highs/tails will come on when it gets dark. I don't think the low beams come on automatically in rain unless it also gets dark enough. I had assumed that they'd come on automatically when the wipers do, but there's no mention of it in the manual (so thanks for reminding me to check): https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-371B94E9-E74F-4BBB-9A55-5F4182894B99.html

This is exactly the problem Rob is pointing out. One that I’ve noticed quite often also. Idiots on the road think the car does it all for them and leave their lights on “Auto” in low visibility situations, which effectively turns your vehicle into a near-invisible moving road hazard as the “Auto” function doesn’t turn taillights on in low visibility, when you need that extra lighting, it only works when it is dark out. If you don’t want to get rear-ended, it’s a smart idea to (no, really, it’s freaking retarded not to) actually turn the lights ON so the taillights actually turn on.
Amazing how many people don’t understand such a simple concept...

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The local Amazon megacenter has a bunch of those Rivian vans in their fleet now.

I suspect Rivian isn't making much money on those. I've seen a couple around, too.

I think that's a great EV application if the range is adequate for the van's service area.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

This is exactly the problem Rob is pointing out. One that I’ve noticed quite often also. Idiots on the road think the car does it all for them and leave their lights on “Auto” in low visibility situations, which effectively turns your vehicle into a near-invisible moving road hazard as the “Auto” function doesn’t turn taillights on in low visibility, when you need that extra lighting, it only works when it is dark out. If you don’t want to get rear-ended, it’s a smart idea to (no, really, it’s freaking retarded not to) actually turn the lights ON so the taillights actually turn on.
Amazing how many people don’t understand such a simple concept...

Some DRL functions also run taillights. Others do not. Honda drivers are the most notorious, in my experience, for driving at night with DRLs only. Some say the big difference is whether or not the gauges are illuminated when headlights are off. If they're not, drivers are more likely to notice.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

Some DRL functions also run taillights. Others do not. Honda drivers are the most notorious, in my experience for driving at night with DRLs only.

While I've not truly kept a tally, I've not seen one brand represented more often. Just last night I saw another one, and I'm fairly sure (though with no rear illumination I couldn't be sure) it was a small Chevy SUV.

Some say the big difference is whether or not the gauges are illuminated when headlights are off. If they're not, drivers are more likely to notice.

Yep, why I said that clusters should be required to be readable WITHOUT backlighting in daylight...

 

[turbobrick240]

I suspect Rivian isn't making much money on those. I've seen a couple around, too.

I think that's a great EV application if the range is adequate for the van's service area.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the problem with all of the Rivian vehicles- they priced them too low relative to production costs. Demand is there, I think. They just need to figure out how to cut production costs, or worse, raise prices. If they raise prices a whole bunch, that will effect demand.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The point of that article is that demand already appears to be lower than expected. Like Lucid, I think price is the issue. If the product may simply be too expensive for what it offers.

I've heard multiple stories about Ford Lightnings sitting on dealer lots. Not sure if it's true, but it appears to be harder to find an F250 than a Lightning these days.

 

[oilhammer]

That's because the F150 Lightning STARTS at nearly double the base starting price, and goes up to nearly six digits. For a half ton pickup with a stunted bed and absymal payload. Once again, a toy for the very wealthy. No "fleets" are going to line up to buy them. We service dozens of fleets here at the shop, and they get purchased in groups. Usually white, mostly regular cab long bed XL trim with the base engine (which is now nearly 300hp.... seriously... they scoot along just fine), rubber floors, bench seats, some even still have crank windows. Ford crossed all these trucks off the potential buyers list right away by making all the Lightnings short (or shorter) beds with Supercabs or Crewcabs.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I see a lot of Super Duty pickups around where I live, usually driven by landscape companies, plumbers, or contractors. However, they all tow big box trailers full of tools, equipment, and supplies. If the Lightning is limited to less than 100 miles when towing a 2 or 3 ton trailer, they're not going to work for these buyers. Like oilhammer said, they're good for the elderly (because that's who can afford them) going to Home Depot to buy a broom or snow shovel. Or, in my town, for runs to the transfer station. Not much else.

 

[oilhammer]

And there are no EV Super Duty trucks. The base engine is now the new slightly smaller spin-off of the 7.3L Godzilla engine, a 6.8L gas V8. 2-valve, pushrod, iron block, port injected beast. Sometimes 1950s tech just works.

 

[kjclow]

Does that make it impossible to drive the car at night or in inclement weather (rain/fog/snow/etc.) without at least running lights on both ends? I've long since lost count of how many idiots I see on the roads in NJ who drive around with either nothing but DRLs or no exterior lights at all in rain/snow, at night, or combinations of all of the above. Tends to annoy me more than a bit, espcially when I'm sharing a freeway with them...

I have auto lights and wipers on my Ram. No DRLs. Lights turn themselves on near dusk and if in a darker area. Sometimes, they will turn on while sitting in the drive through. High beams are also automatic and use a sensor on the back of the mirror to "see" other's headlights and taillights. The lights also turn themselves on if the wipers turn on. In NC, the state law is that if your wipers are on, you have to be "burning" your headlamps. Yes, it is still written that way. We used to have a Honda where the dash light up with DRLs. It didn't change intensity based on outside lighting. We got pulled over a few times to remind us to turn all the lights on.

 

[kjclow]

The local Amazon megacenter has a bunch of those Rivian vans in their fleet now.

Saw a few of those in the Phoenix area but didn't know who was building them.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Ford initially offered a fleet only electric F150 in XL trim for $40K, not a bad deal at the time when an equivalent F150XL 4WD crew cab went for $28K fleet price. But it was short bed crew cab only while fleets prefer long beds and fleets tend to order out a year or more ahead, so very few fleet orders were taken. Since then Ford drasticly increased the price so even the most "woke" fleets aren't buying the F150 electric in sizable numbers. In comparison the electric Transit van has sold almost as well as the electric F150, and those were almost all fleet sales- Probably because most tradespeople prefer the cargo protection of a van and the upcharge for the electric Transit was about the same as the tax incentives or less.

 

[oilhammer]

That's the thing, the E-Transit or whatever it is called, is the same basic "box" as the regular ones. The E-F150 is not. The electric Transit also is only $7k more starting to get in vs. the standard Transit.

 

[turbobrick240]

I see a lot of Super Duty pickups around where I live, usually driven by landscape companies, plumbers, or contractors. However, they all tow big box trailers full of tools, equipment, and supplies. If the Lightning is limited to less than 100 miles when towing a 2 or 3 ton trailer, they're not going to work for these buyers. Like oilhammer said, they're good for the elderly (because that's who can afford them) going to Home Depot to buy a broom or snow shovel. Or, in my town, for runs to the transfer station. Not much else.

Lots of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks around here too. I don't know if it's mostly elderly folks buying the Godzilla Superduties, but they aren't easy on the wallet either. I think they start around $50k and get about 12 mpg when they aren't towing anything.

 

[oilhammer]

The F250 starts around $42k, and they'll get nearly 20 MPG on the highway with no load at moderate speeds (that 10sp slushbox is at least good for something). But most of the tarted out XLT or higher trims with giant shiny wheels and four doors are more like $70k+. And around town, they are pretty thirsty.

Ford has been tossing around a hybrid HD (GVWR 8500+) truck, but just like the hybrid F150 it probably won't have a very high take rate.

The Godzilla engines sell well, and since the Powerstrokes have succumbed to the runaway dick-swinging game of frame-bending torque ridiculousness that hardly anyone that drives a pickup even needs, coupled with the absurdity of the emissions compliance regulations driving the price through the roof, it is no wonder why. And if the $10k PS diesel option isn't enough to offset your lacking manhood, there is a high output version for a $13k extra, LOL.... 500hp and 1200tq... that's nuts. That's like OTR territory.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Thinking about EVs and their benefits to the environment, I have frequently wondered where we'd be vis a vis fuel prices and consumption if Americans hadn't bought countless huge SUVs and pickups in the past 20 years. American car manufacturers each sell one or two cars, max, except Cadillac. Everything else is a CUV or SUV. Even if something like a Honda CRV can get high 20s in daily use, consider if people could (and would) buy a Civic Wagon (remember those?) instead that could easily achieve high 30s in daily use.

Or, to a greater extreme, trade a 12 MPG F250 for a VW Amarok or similar, getting 3x the MPG on diesel. Tell me that wouldn't help our contributions to climate change.

In the 20 years I've been driving my Wagon it's evolved into a tiny oddity. No small wagons to be seen, and very few cars, anywhere.

 

[jmodge]

The fact that the majority of vehicles on the road here being large and driven hard tells me conservation isn’t foremost on the minds of most drivers. I like my little diesels, no car payments, ever, and most likely would only go to a hybrid if any electric at all. It would have to be something I can afford to buy and pay to be maintained. I know people who will work on gas cars if I decide to give up wrenching completely. I wouldn’t know who to trust with electric. But that’s me, and I know my opinions on that subject aren’t going to shape the future as much as what younger people are doing right now. And right now it seems going into debt has been fashionable for some time. Supply, demand, dictated by what people can afford to do as well as air and water quality will shape the future of our transportation options. We’ve been enjoying a large quantity of choices for quite a while now that I really doubt will be options to people at some point in the future.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If you look at other car markets, our range of choice is actually pretty limited. Just look here for comparison: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/new.html Many more models, many of which with multiple drivetrain options. And that's just VW.

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, the options suck here.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Hell, even just across the border in Mexico they got way more options!

 

[turbobrick240]

Just wait until Renault re-enters this market with the Twizy. Game over SUVs.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

In NC, the state law is that if your wipers are on, you have to be "burning" your headlamps. Yes, it is still written that way.

We have the same law in NJ - been on the books since before I got my permit in '92. Wish they'd have a ticket campaign for this like they do for seatbelts....

 

[kjclow]

Hell, even just across the border in Mexico they got way more options!

For may years, there were models available in Canada that we could not get in the US. Never made any sense.

 

[turbobrick240]

The automakers have a pretty good idea of which models sell well in which markets. If importing/exporting them isn't profitable, they generally won't bother.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The automakers have a pretty good idea of which models sell well in which markets. If importing/exporting them isn't profitable, they generally won't bother.

If they do, it's a pretty common opinion among VW enthusiasts (not just TDIs) that VWoA is way off base on the models they offer here, and have been for years. Maybe their current line appeals to a mass market consumer cross shopping against Kia and Subaru, but not so much for those of us who have loved VWs for years.

 

[turbobrick240]

If they do, it's a pretty common opinion among VW enthusiasts (not just TDIs) that VWoA is way off base on the models they offer here, and have been for years. Maybe their current line appeals to a mass market consumer cross shopping against Kia and Subaru, but not so much for those of us who have loved VWs for years.

Yeah, unfortunately they are more interested in profits than pleasing a subset of enthusiasts. Many hardcore Porsche enthusiasts were disgusted when Porsche first unveiled the Cayenne. But that model has sold incredibly well, and may have kept Porsche afloat.

 

[gmenounos]

Same thing with the BMW enthusiasts. I read the BMW CCA magazine (never owned a BMW but I like reading the Hack Mechanic column) and the members there constantly complain about the lack of manual transmissions and wagons. But the sheep majority of BMW owners keep on buying the latest automatic X-whatever models...

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Yeah, unfortunately they are more interested in profits than pleasing a subset of enthusiasts. Many hardcore Porsche enthusiasts were disgusted when Porsche first unveiled the Cayenne. But that model has sold incredibly well, and may have kept Porsche afloat.

The difference between Porsche and VW is that Porsche has continued to sell the sports coupes and sedans that the Cayenne helps fund. VW doesn't use revenues from SUVs and CUVs to sell, for example, the up!, Polo, or even Golf or Golf Sportwagen any longer. Not to mention vans or trucks.

 

[oilhammer]

Some of it is the very different specs that we've legislated ourselves into, and it just becoming too costly to make "US-only" stuff. It's gotten to be far more than just the instrument cluster being in miles instead of kilometers (like we should have done in the late '60s when Canada did).