real world EVs review

tikal

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"Right wing", "left wing".... doesn't matter, they're both wrong. People are not defined by A or B. Just how our crap system works. People are much more complex than that.
Indeed. You got it abour complexity Daemon64! I am finishing watching this presentation. Do not dismiss it by the title. In my view it is not "against" or "pro" if you give it a chance to follow it. Around the timeline of 27 minutes 45 seconds it mentions VW:


It is doable to scale up the necessary minerals but it will take some time or more time than what we envision in my view.
 

tikal

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The Russian invasion of Ukraine has really accelerated Europe's transition to renewable energy sources. It's also caused a temporary uptick in coal usage, unfortunately. I think we'll see their coal usage start to go back into decline later this year. Apparently nothing cuts through beuracratic red tape like war and an energy crisis.
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has also really accelerated Europe (Germany and others) import of natural gas transported by ships burning bunker oil. The CO2 cost is there before you produce electricity.


"
Health impacts[edit]
Because of the low quality of bunker fuel, when burnt it is especially harmful to the health of humans, causing serious illnesses and deaths. Prior to the IMO's 2020 sulfur cap, shipping industry air pollution was estimated to cause around 400,000 premature deaths each year, from lung cancer and cardiovascular disease, as well as 14 million childhood asthma cases each year.[4]

Even after the introduction of cleaner fuel rules in 2020, shipping air pollution is still estimated to account for around 250,000 deaths each year, and around 6.4 million childhood asthma cases each year.

The hardest hit countries by air pollution from ships are China, Japan, the UK, Indonesia, and Germany. In 2015, shipping air pollution killed an estimated 20,520 people in China, 4,019 people in Japan, and 3,192 people in the UK.[5]

According to an ICCT study, countries located on major shipping lanes are particularly exposed, and can see shipping account for a high percentage of overall deaths from transport sector air pollution. In Taiwan, shipping accounts for 70% of all transport-attributable air pollution deaths in 2015, followed by Morocco at 51%, Malaysia and Japan both at 41%, Vietnam at 39%, and the UK at 38%.[6]

As well as commercial shipping, cruise ships also emit large amounts of air pollution, damaging people's health. Up to 2019, it was reported that the ships of the single largest cruise company, Carnival Corporation & plc, emitted ten times more sulfur dioxide than all of Europe's cars combined.
[7]

"
 

turbobrick240

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Indeed. You got it abour complexity Daemon64! I am finishing watching this presentation. Do not dismiss it by the title. In my view it is not "against" or "pro" if you give it a chance to follow it. Around the timeline of 27 minutes 45 seconds it mentions VW:


It is doable to scale up the necessary minerals but it will take some time or more time than what we envision in my view.
The Manhattan Institute is a conservative corporate mouthpiece. Had that speaker been alive in 1940, he'd have been arguing that it would be delusional to think that the US could muster the mineral and industrial might to take on the Axis powers. He can make that argument until he's blue in the face (or in the ground), but that won't slow down the transition to clean energy sources.


 
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Abacus

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The Manhattan Institute is a conservative corporate mouthpiece. Had that speaker been alive in 1940, he'd have been arguing that it would be delusional to think that the US could muster the mineral and industrial might to take on the Axis powers. He can make that argument until he's blue in the face (or in the ground), but that won't slow down the transition to clean energy sources.
So are you arguing the speaker or the message? It sounds like you argue against the speaker and not the message. Because those who argue the message don't care about who delivers it, they can debate the message on its merits alone.
 

turbobrick240

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So are you arguing the speaker or the message? It sounds like you argue against the speaker and not the message. Because those who argue the message don't care about who delivers it, they can debate the message on its merits alone.
I'm saying it's a flawed message from a biased speaker representing an equally biased think tank. He might convince a few equally ossified viewers that a renewable energy future is delusional, but in the end, the superior economics of renewables will win out.
 

Abacus

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Haven’t we discussed the flaws of the ‘superior economics of renewables’ right here on this thread? I’m pretty sure we have, and discounting a message just due to individual messenger bias is not keeping an open mind and understanding another point of view.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
It is quite humorous how people tend to react that way. There was a news person who frequently would ask people questions based on placing an assumed position in their head, and they reacted exactly the way that was expected. Political polarization. A way for weak minded individuals to be corralled and manipulated. Daemon64 is right, most of us are far more complex and variable than that, but it is sadly quite alarming how many can be swayed and celebrity status can sway far more weak minded folks. That's why I laugh so much at the whole Elon Musk thing, because you just know the kool-aid drunk zealots that fawned over him for so long are having their heads explode now, LMAO!!!! Most recently he was the butt of a joke that asked "Who is a better representative for 'racial social justice' in today's world, an African born person or a German born person?" Of course, you know the "politically correct" answer... until they showed the African born person (Musk) and the German born person (LeVar Burton). Burton was not technically a German citizen, but the question didn't explicitly state this... point is, people made a decision based off of misinformation, and that behavior continues today.
 

gmenounos

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And now for some actual EV info: One month in and loving the car. Finally got to visit my Dad in NH last Saturday. Hopped in the car, drove 75 miles to see him, drove back. Still had 90 miles of range left when I got home. No range issues, no charging issues, heats up really fast, accelerates like crazy. Going on a longer road trip to Utica, NY at the end of next week - about 250 miles away. I should probably try supercharging before then just to make sure it works. Then in April, we're planning to drive down to Virginia during school vacation week - about 650 miles each way.
 

El Dobro

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"Right wing", "left wing".... doesn't matter, they're both wrong. People are not defined by A or B. Just how our crap system works. People are much more complex than that.
Which was what I was getting at, don't judge a book by its cover.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I bet that car's a pleasure. I've driven a Model 3 briefly, and did like it. The screen in the middle of the car isn't my favorite, I kept thinking of a Toyota Echo. But they do drive nicely, especially after driving 20+ year old VWs around. I'll be interested in hearing about your Supercharger experiences on longer drives, although I suspect they'll be uneventful.
 

gmenounos

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I bet that car's a pleasure. I've driven a Model 3 briefly, and did like it. The screen in the middle of the car isn't my favorite, I kept thinking of a Toyota Echo. But they do drive nicely, especially after driving 20+ year old VWs around. I'll be interested in hearing about your Supercharger experiences on longer drives, although I suspect they'll be uneventful.
I got used to the screen pretty quickly. The speedometer is the main thing you'd miss from a regular car, but the speed is displayed in the upper left corner of the screen, so your eyes don't need to move very far to glance at the speed - down and slightly to the right instead of just down. Obviously there's no need to check RPM or coolant temp so you don't miss those gauges. The wipers are automatic as are the headlights (including auto high beams) so even though there aren't physical stalks/knobs for those, you don't need them 99% of the time. It's nice that I'll never have to worry about accidentally leaving the headlights on - good for an older person like me. :)

I do miss being able to poke the radio preset buttons to quickly switch between radio stations without taking my eyes off the road. A lot of the functionality that's buried in the touch screen is also controllable by voice (just push a button on the steering wheel and give a command) but I haven't played around with that enough yet to know what commands are available.
 

prsa01

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This is not just EV but most/many new car controls. I REALLY don't understand the logic of replacing ergonomic muscle memory controls with multi-level touch screen controls that by their very nature pull your focus from the road. Why would nearly every state be outlawing using your phone touch screen while driving and simultaneously allowing all of the cars controls to be setup the same way? Just the lack of tactile feedback from any touchscreen application requires significantly more visual focus for these operations.

Even my '14 jsw touch screen radio controls require much more visual distraction from the road than the traditional controls. Long term it will all be stearing wheel /voice so won't matter but why allow this intermediate step?
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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There are just too many to list....
That screen stuff would keep me from owning that car no matter what else it did or did not do. It is ridiculous. prsa01 brings up the obvious point to the absurdity. Essentially, if you glue your cell phone to the dash, then that's OK? Because that's kind of what is happening.
 

turbobrick240

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The lack of stalks for blinkers and wipers would take some adjustment for me. I like a conventional horn too. Some people surely freaked out when automatic trans, cruise control, and probably even electric starters were introduced. And things like hand throttles & clutches, and spark advance were removed. Autos have always been in a continuous state of change, and that will continue.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Automakers underestimated how distracting it is to have screens, touch or otherwise, replacing physical controls in cars. And they didn't forsee the negative reception they've received from many drivers. VW, in particular, has failed spectacularly with the haptic and slide controls in their new cars, including the MK8 GTI. Honda has gone back to some physical controls, especially a volume knob for the head unit.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Maybe it is now, but back in the 80s the horn on my Peugeot was activated by pushing the wiper stalk towards the steering wheel.
 

turbobrick240

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There will always be classic vehicles to preserve the nostalgia. My father ran a large compost/peat harvesting operation on the farm when I was a young kid. There was a constant stream of diesel dump wheelers coming and going. The drivers were all friendly guys and would let me climb up and geek out over the cab full of analog gauges, levers, toggle switches, radios etc. I suspect the new trucks are substantially less "busy" in the cab these days too.
 

turbobrick240

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Maybe it is now, but back in the 80s the horn on my Peugeot was activated by pushing the wiper stalk towards the steering wheel.
That must have been a French car thing- our 80's Renaults were the same way, except I think it was on the headlight/blinker stalk.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The early Ford Ranger horn (and I think maybe some other Fords) had the horn where you pushed IN on the stalk, too. My Dad still has his '84 Ranger, ordered spec and purchased new. And every single thing in the cab of that truck, including its standard issue AM radio, still works.
 

turbobrick240

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There's still a stalk for turn signals and the horn is activated the normal way. I wonder if there's a legal requirement that those work the same in all cars.
Nice. I guess I was thinking of the refreshed Model S and X. At least they're offering a full size(and round) steering wheel option for those now.
 

Mcgink

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No Heads up display on a Tesla?? Seems like it should have it all at that price point IMO
 

tikal

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The Manhattan Institute is a conservative corporate mouthpiece. Had that speaker been alive in 1940, he'd have been arguing that it would be delusional to think that the US could muster the mineral and industrial might to take on the Axis powers. He can make that argument until he's blue in the face (or in the ground), but that won't slow down the transition to clean energy sources.


Could we not please discuss the speaker personality, perfume, political party, sexual orientation, physical appearance, etc. in this thread?

Can we make a small effort please!
 

turbobrick240

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Could we not please discuss the speaker personality, perfume, political party, sexual orientation, physical appearance, etc. in this thread?

Can we make a small effort please!
I didn't discuss any of those things in my critique of the speaker you linked. Maybe you could do a little more research before regurgitating(in the kindest sense) whatever you find floating around on social media. I know your intentions were good.

Much appreciated!
 

tikal

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Fair enough.

Perhaps we can listen to someone FIRST and then search for what organization he belongs too.

If we agree that we are becoming more interconnected exponentially as we go into the next decades then successful large scaling of mineral extraction will depend on successful worldwide cooperation and commerce.
 

gmenounos

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No Heads up display on a Tesla?? Seems like it should have it all at that price point IMO
I've never driven a car with a heads up display but it's always sounded cool. Some folks on the VWIDTalk forum were looking into what it would take to upgrade the US model ID.4 to a heads up display, which is only a factory option in Europe (like the MKIVs, where you couldn't get an FIS cluster, an RDS radio, xenon headlights, park distance control or a 6-speed in North America). I think the verdict on the ID.4 heads up display was that the windshield needed to be replaced with one that has a special coating. I'm sure tongsli would have found a way if he had an ID.4. What ever happened to him?

The Model 3 is a strange combination of fancy and minimalist. All 5 seats are heated, there's a glass roof, the tilt/telescoping steering wheel is motorized as is the trunk, but some functions are only available on the touch screen instead of via physical buttons, supposedly to reduce manufacturing cost.
 

03TDICommuter

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The early Ford Ranger horn (and I think maybe some other Fords) had the horn where you pushed IN on the stalk, too. My Dad still has his '84 Ranger, ordered spec and purchased new. And every single thing in the cab of that truck, including its standard issue AM radio, still works.
Including being able to move the air vent direction? My 93' Ranger, they're all seized.
 

El Dobro

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This was my loaner while the Bolt was at the body shop having the grill replaced. Let's just say I was happy to get the Bolt back.
 
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