real world EVs review

Daemon64

Veteran Member
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Jul 19, 2019
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Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
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2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
(At the risk of getting wayy off topic...)


That’s because they are.

I’m only 23 and I can see it, I’m embarrassed by my own generation. But I was also raised quite differently than most losers my age, my co-workers tell me that I’m the only young person in the company that has a work ethic.
Although if I’m being honest I still consider myself lazy compared to the older folks around here.

Kids these days have everything handed to them on a platter and you really think they’re gonna learn to work hard for what they want (like their parents/grandparents had to) when/if they grow up? Yeah, not likely.

Ok I’m done 😁
I completely disagree with it just being a matter of laziness. I am 40 the oldest of millenials. I have a nephew who is 26 so the oldest of Gen Z. He works for enterprise and kills himself detailing cars, and worked for a place before that killing himself detailing cars even more, and the pay he takes in is barely above someone working for mcdonalds. What has actually happened is that wages have stagnated to an extreme amount, and they went up but the cost of living went up extremely. If he worked fulltime, he could not afford a studio apartment and all the normal stuff like basic internet, electricity, food, car insurance, etc... he drives a 2008 jetta w/ 180k miles on it, does his own maintenance and etc... His GF same situation has certifications in medical front end, can't get jobs....

What has happened here is the promise of each generation doing better than the last is not true anymore. Millenials are worse off than our boomer parents, and Gen Z is even worse off than we are... So if your option is to work full time, spend basically no money and you still cannot afford to even live in a crappy area in a studio... why would you ever put in the extra effort. I applaud Gen Z demanding better pay, which trickles through the entire economy. But in the end it comes down to this: Workers have the most leverage right now that they've had since before the boomer generation came into the work force. Why? Simple math: 4+ million baby boomers retired during the pandemic( the largest generation in american history ) and many more every day and while that may not seem like much, what is the reality is there is literally not enough Gen X, Millenials, or Gen Z to fill all the job openings: couple that with historically low unemployment rate and here we are.

If he moved into a more rural area and made the same amount of money, he could actually afford some stuff, but now he's 80+ miles or even more away from all of his friends and family. Lets say he did that, would you want him coming to your small town taking a job for someone else thats local, and then causing by default your cost of living to go up. It happened during the pandemic when people who had good jobs moved to more rural areas to get a better quality of life, except we drove up the cost of living extremely for people living there as well, thus forcing out or making things more difficult for people in those rural areas.

Everyone wants to complain about something and say "why don't you do what i did", but then throws in a whole, but don't come to my back yard. My wife and I work 2 jobs each ( technically I have three ). If we sold our house we could move to the rural areas spoken about and buy like 4 - 5 houses, and start renting them out, and then guess what there goes that cost of living since we "did the smart thing" and invested in real estate. Sure our lives would be much easier we could eliminate much of our jobs, and we'd be bringing money into the local economy since all of our jobs are remote.... but by the same token we'd be raising the cost of living for everyone else there. I do not subscribe to the "screw you i got mine" mentality.

Now: I certainly do NOT agree with many points that have been made in this thread on these topics, and have kindly asked that we keep it out. I could easily go books and books back and forth on this and many other subjects. But we're here to discuss ,CARS, EVs, diesel vs gas vs electric, solar charging related, total emissions, things of this nature: NOT supposed work ethics, politics, and things of that nature.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Some actual EV info: Here's the bottom of my Model 3's Monroney label. I was surprised to see that most of the parts came from North America. I know the car is assembled in California but I was half expecting that a lot of the parts would have come from China. (I know, parts are made of smaller parts and _those_ parts are probably from overseas.)

View attachment 129320
Tesla has 4 out of 6 of the most American made models. The Model 3 is a close 2nd after the Model Y. Interestingly, a Honda is in the top 6 too, along with a Lincoln Corsair (never heard of it before). Probably not of huge importance to members of a VW forum, but it is notable.

 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The Corsair is the Ford Escape for old rich people and and weirdos like Matthew McConaughey.

It does have more tarted up features, though, and there is a plug-in hybrid version like the Escape, but doesn't get the Escapes smaller turbo engine option.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
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'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Actually it's the insurance cost that's getting to me- With the latest round of increases it's about $400 a year per car just for collision and comprehensive! Given that my vehicles spend over 95% of their life in a rural concrete garage, I dropped the comprehensive coverage on the Golf7 TDI and saved $200 a year. Been thinking of treating myself to a Golf R or maybe even a Porsche Cayman in a couple years, while I can buy one cash I'm not sure I can afford the insurance...
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
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'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Daemon64, I totally agree- I made a bunch of stupid decisions in the 60s and 70s but the economy was healthy enough that I was able to recover, now there's no room for error. Job market was so good when I graduated high school in '68 that I put in not even a dozen applications and next day had four job offers. Took the offer of the Chevy dealership next to the freeway to nowhere AKA "test track" on evening shift and got to drive most of GMs fastest cars at the time. Survived the high speed "test drives" but got fired after a month for two parking fender benders. Took a couple weeks off and got hired right away at a Sears auto center, was a clerk but on the sly learned how to do tire work, etc.. Walked away from that job a year later, came back after a week to collect my paycheck and they tried to talk me into coming back! Bummed around a few months then got hired on my first application at a Mercury dealer, shuffled cars and shagged parts for a year before I quit again and bummed around. After a couple years of bumming I went back to college and got a series of part time jobs there, didn't work a full time job for the next six years- Tuition was almost free, the college jobs paid good, and with financial aid I could easily handle the less than $100 a month rent. Summer of '77 learned how to drive truck properly and by summer of '78 was on the bottom of the Teamster seniority list at the local bakery. Took four years to get full time permanent status, was fired and reinstated 12 times, quit in '98, company went bankrupt in '12 but every month the pension funds drop a couple thousand in my bank account.

Good luck pulling that off today- I see even younger boomers who missed cheap tuition and union jobs struggling, and for todays young folks every hard earned dollar goes to survival with nothing less to save nor pensions.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
I disagree with the statement " Your car payment should only be some % of your total cost of living. " It could just be nothing . Now I know I spend more than nothing to maintain my cars, but given they are all paid for, reliable, and fairly inexpensive to operate, it is still far and away less than $650/mo. But I did realize this week that my F150's tires may age out before they get worn out, which is not a good economic choice. :p
I was able to put away some $$ too. I actually bought the ELR with cash... that was a nice feeling. And I think my statement about cost of living vs. vehicle cost still stands, I'm using car payment as a generic term... to include just buying it outright. That's till some % of your overall income.

I found my paperwork, we financed $45k on the Tesla, and paid $3k in interest. Loans were only 3.29% at the time!

Regarding the job market, even for someone in IT it can take a long time find a position. It took me 8 months to find my prior job, and 3 to get the one I'm at now.

Wait, isn't this off topic? Shouldn't I be enforcing the no chit-chat rule? Hmm....

-J
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Humans are chit-chatty people. I see nothing wrong with kind civilized conversations with intelligent thoughtful people, even if we differ on certain things. Eventually just about any topic will run its course.
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
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2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Kids these days have everything handed to them on a platter and you really think they’re gonna learn to work hard for what they want (like their parents/grandparents had to) when/if they grow up? Yeah, not likely.
That's overly broad.

We paid for our daughter's university education (much of which was covered by an athletic scholarship) and gave our son the same amount (which he used as a downpayment on his first house). They both work hard at good jobs and don't need help from us, although I do help them maintain their MK4s. My son recently bought a second house, my daughter has saved a downpayment and is looking for her first. That hasn't stopped them enjoying life, she likes to travel and he loves boats and snowmobiles.

No lack of work ethic there!
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
There are people who feel entitled and mess up in every generation. Just look at statistics showing how many baby boomers have no retirement savings. Or, as oilhammer points out, people who buy and finance 100% (or more) of a car (or a house, for that matter) and cannot pay for service or repairs. You get the idea. I continue to be amazed by the number of people in their 50s and early 60s who want to retire. Many can't afford it, but they're going to do it anyway. I don't get that.

When people complain about millennials not having a work ethic I think of the folks I work with at IDParts. By and large they are smart, responsible, thoughtful, and hard working. I am impressed by the responsibilities they take without being asked, and the extent to which they care about the company and its success.

And my kids are all independent and self supporting. It might have taken them a bit longer than an older generation, but they also had some special circumstances to overcome. Only 1 of the 3 is a homeowner, but that's because one has been moving around a lot, and the other refuses to buy in Los Angeles right now, even though she could afford it. I can't fault her for that. They've all earned graduate degrees (with some $$ help from me, admittedly), and are working in their chosen professions.

I would say the maturation process for millennials does take a little longer than it did for boomers, but so what? I agree with posters above that in many ways life is more difficult for them than it was for me 40+ years ago. For sure I wouldn't want to trade places.
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Location
Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
TDI
2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
There are people who feel entitled and mess up in every generation. Just look at statistics showing how many baby boomers have no retirement savings. Or, as oilhammer points out, people who buy and finance 100% (or more) of a car (or a house, for that matter) and cannot pay for service or repairs. You get the idea. I continue to be amazed by the number of people in their 50s and early 60s who want to retire. Many can't afford it, but they're going to do it anyway. I don't get that.

When people complain about millennials not having a work ethic I think of the folks I work with at IDParts. By and large they are smart, responsible, thoughtful, and hard working. I am impressed by the responsibilities they take without being asked, and the extent to which they care about the company and its success.

And my kids are all independent and self supporting. It might have taken them a bit longer than an older generation, but they also had some special circumstances to overcome. Only 1 of the 3 is a homeowner, but that's because one has been moving around a lot, and the other refuses to buy in Los Angeles right now, even though she could afford it. I can't fault her for that. They've all earned graduate degrees (with some $$ help from me, admittedly), and are working in their chosen professions.

I would say the maturation process for millennials does take a little longer than it did for boomers, but so what? I agree with posters above that in many ways life is more difficult for them than it was for me 40+ years ago. For sure I wouldn't want to trade places.
If we're going off topic again here is some info for point of note on generations.

Simple point of note: https://www.beresfordresearch.com/age-range-by-generation/
Generation name: Years born ( current age range )
Greatest Generation: 1900 - 1927 ( 96 - 123 )
Silent Generation: 1928 - 1945 ( 78 - 95 )
Baby Boomer: 1946 - 1954 ( 69 - 77 )
Baby Boomer 2 - 1955 - 1964 ( 59 - 68 )
Gen X - 1965 - 1980 ( 43 - 58 )
Millenials ( aka Gen Y ) - 1981 - 1996 ( 27 - 42 )
Gen-Z - 1997 - 2012 ( 11 - 26 )
Gen Alpha - 2013 - current ( 0 - 10 )
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
I agree with posters above that in many ways life is more difficult for them than it was for me 40+ years ago. For sure I wouldn't want to trade places.
My kids are probably doing better than most - they make 4x what I did at their age. Most of the things they spend it on (housing excluded) are cheaper as a percentage of income than they were for me. I reckon they have it easier!
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Wow, the Greatest generation covered 27 years! No wonder they were the greatest. :D
 

tikal

Veteran Member
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Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Ok, how about this to get a little bit more on track?

If it happens, this would help the OP to make road trips with the family with his EVs? Or not?

 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Saw today that FCA has decided that the electric truck will be known as the Ram 1500 REV. Supposed to out do all the others on charge time, range, range while towing, and towing ability.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Good to see Stellantis entering the electric pickup segment. It will be interesting to see how similar the production model is to the concept vehicle. The lack of a B pillar looks cool in concept, but probably wouldn't do well in side impact tests. I like Ford's approach of making the Lightning at least appear very similar to the popular standard F150. I guess we'll see how well radical departures sell when Cybertrucks start hitting the roads. That will be very interesting.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Got the corporate email last night offering a hold on a 1500 Rev for $100. I'm considering it but would really like to know up front what they think the thing is going to cost.
 

gulfcoastguy

Veteran Member
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MS Gulfcoast
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TDI sold, Mazda 3 purchased
I’m currently drinking coffee in the mall while my ID4 is hooked up to a free charger. At home it costs me 4 cents a mile to charge. It does like tires, had to replace the first set at 36,000 miles (they were Bridgestone Alenzas) other than that no maintenance costs in 42,000 miles. Well, 2 cabin air filter.
I’m a Boomer 2 by the above chart. I started working for money at 14, put myself through college, paid off a house, maxed out a pension and retired. I have elderly parents to see to so I just stayed middle class rather than than take up a retirement job. If I took one Uncle Sam would get over half of it.
As to the high power bills in the North East if they allowed pipelines from the natural gas fields to their population centers electricity and home heating would be much cheaper:
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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Location
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Auction timing is key here. When prices were rising rapidly last year, utilities that went to auction and bought power sooner did better than those who did it later.
Yup, and since Nat gas prices are down over 30% already this year and about 80% from the highs last August, hopefully the next auctions will bring substantially lower rates.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
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South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I heard an industry expert yesterday say that energy prices tend to "go up like a rocket, and fall like a feather." It seems to me that the natural gas market is pretty unstable right now. Prices have fallen recently mostly because we're having a mild winter, here and in Europe. So far. That could change anytime. Or something else could happen. Regardless, they're unlikely to come down as fast (or as far) as they went up.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The rapidly falling Nat gas prices are a mixed bag for sure. It makes life much easier for low income families struggling to pay bills, and the lower electricity rates that ensue encourage EV adoption. On the other hand, high fossil fuel costs encourage the development of renewable energy infrastructure. Overall, I think the falling cost of Nat gas is a positive. Utilities saw the gigantic price spike and volatility and are already moving to renewables at warp speed.
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
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2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
The rapidly falling Nat gas prices are a mixed bag for sure. It makes life much easier for low income families struggling to pay bills, and the lower electricity rates that ensue encourage EV adoption. On the other hand, high fossil fuel costs encourage the development of renewable energy infrastructure. Overall, I think the falling cost of Nat gas is a positive. Utilities saw the gigantic price spike and volatility and are already moving to renewables at warp speed.
Renewables are not possible for the winter in mass. Specifically Dec / Jan. W/ the drop of the angle and solar irradiance being lower solar production is like 8 times lower in those two months than summer peaks... so the capacity you'd need to install would be absolutely absurd in size.

Then we'd need to consider we're at the end of the pipeline and have to import massive amounts of LNG.... but keep in mind all of that pales in comparison to the next issue.

The biggest problem with the grid here is the massive amount of power we purchase from NH / elsewhere because we do not produce all the power we use:
  • Massachusetts consumes almost three times as much electricity as the state produces, but it uses less electricity per capita than all but four other states.
Although 20% of our power annually is produce via solar, thats only of what we produce which is much compared to what we use.

We need large scale deployments, ESPECIALLY stead state production for winter months because thats where our huge price hikes come from. We lack the land / wind capacity to make up for the winter months... while we could add wind and solar and battery / pumped hydro, that will be just a drop in the bucket compared to the total energy demand.

All of this is why our average electricity rates are so much higher than other parts of the country.

To me the answer is SMR deployed strategically through the state to increase our steady state production which will lower the demand curve, and when we atleast hit parity or get closer it will force the rates down on the energy markets as the demand is less... etc...etc... We cannot realistically support more natural gas plants ( we cannot realistically import more, pipeline cannot support more, and the price volatility is part of the problem ), and there isn't enough solar / wind we can bring online especially for the cold months when we need it the most. If you increase production to local / cut out the middle man you reduce the cost for the average joe.

So ultimately you have to increase production but with the unique challenges we have thats the solution I see. Many will disagree, but keep on doing nothing about it and we will see $1 / kwh prices in the next decade for sure.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You guys also use a lot of heating oil in winter too, correct? That's completely unheard of around here. Urban areas it is electric/natural gas. Rural areas it is electric and in some cases propane. A lot of wood (often pellets) heating systems, too. Geography and population density certainly plays a part, which is why not all solutions work for everyone.
 

Daemon64

Veteran Member
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Tyngsborough, Massachusetts
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2022 Polestar 2 BEV - Current, 2021 Q5 55e PHEV - Retired, 2015 Q5 3.0 TDI - Retired, 2013 Golf TDI - Retired
You guys also use a lot of heating oil in winter too, correct? That's completely unheard of around here. Urban areas it is electric/natural gas. Rural areas it is electric and in some cases propane. A lot of wood (often pellets) heating systems, too. Geography and population density certainly plays a part, which is why not all solutions work for everyone.
My extended family has heating oil, my neighbors across the street and etc... yeah they use a ton. We have 100% minisplits in our house now so full electric, and the house before was natural gas. But to severely reduce my winter electricity demand I'm installing a woodstove this year. 15x less co2 than our grid energy mix, and will reduce my annual electricity usage 7000kwh / yr ( and at my current winter rate of .495 / kwh average this winter the woostove pays for itself in 1.25 seasons ), and thus my solar will produce ALL of the annual power for our house. Plus i have few more changes I'm making still to make that even more a reality.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
My reason for asking was, I think that along with your milder/shorter/less intense summers can skew the "average" electric consumption vs. somewhere else, that's all. When you said you use less per capita of electricity I thought that. If I didn't use electricity for heating, and my summers were less extreme so I didn't use as much to run the A/C, then yeah I'd use less, too!

There is also the issue of what inside temps are comfortable... that varies. I loathe the heat, but have no issue with the cold. My wife is somewhat the opposite, although with her hot flashes she trends more towards my likes, LOL. The insulation of the house also makes an enormous difference.
 
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