real world EVs review

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI the winter water wonderland
TDI
More than I need, less than I want
Parking lots tell the story also. Easily 90% of the vehicles are ICE here. Unless they're not driven by the general middle class. When I was in Detroit we went to Central Station, a Tesla and some type of Mustang I noticed. Detroit Institute of Arts, I don't recall seeing any, but I didn't search the whole lot. At Stahls Museum, not a one.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, the newest TDI here is now a decade old.... it'll take a while. My daily driver is 25 years old and still going, LOL.
 

El Dobro

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
NJ
TDI
2017 Bolt EV Premier, 2023 Bolt EUV Premier
That salt must really shorten the life of things there.
Don't see as many rust buckets as we used to in NJ. They've been using brine on the roads for a while now. Plus, the car washes have the option of bottom cleaning of the cars. Now, Pennsylvania's another story.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
Don't see as many rust buckets as we used to in NJ. They've been using brine on the roads for a while now. Plus, the car washes have the option of bottom cleaning of the cars. Now, Pennsylvania's another story.
The fact most manufacturers dip their cars before painting now helps a ton....once corrosion protection was limited to certain areas or sprayed on...but manufacturers learned through 10 year rust through warranty claims they simply had to do better and change they did....(Look how many VW fixed as an example)
Keep the drain holes clear in lower body panel, rinse things off if close to freezing, and cars certainly last longer than they did....
But have seen Hyundai/KIA with rims that are barely 5 years old looking like they are ready for the junkyard so there is still work too do on some components.

Heck I junked a Ford fusion I had as a winter car cause the rear subframe was shot..made it to the 14+ year mark...rest of the undersides was good, but my gut told me it was on the edge of becoming a money pit cause once you removed most of the rear suspension to replace the subframe... figured it would be dumb not to refresh things, and there were other looming issues that said "it's time" .. wasn't worth it to me as a winter beater, but also didn't want the rear wheels suddenly going to a dangerous angle at a bad time WHEN the subframe went. Betting somebody picked it up cheap and swapped it out in their garage.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
Yeah, the newest TDI here is now a decade old.... it'll take a while. My daily driver is 25 years old and still going, LOL.
Unfortunately with a 5% chance of an accident per year give or take attrition will eventually win...
That and people suddenly realize you have to use mirrors to backup, maybe crank a window up or even row your own gears, 😂
Suddenly you get your kids friends in a circle looking at you car talking about how crazy people must have been in the 80's and 90's.
No Bluetooth, Lane assist, or auto braking... depending on the year maybe no ABS, 😂
Had a 89 crx as fun beater around 2005...was amazing the difference jumping between that and the 2005 mini I had that was about TWICE the size and weight of the CRX
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That and people suddenly realize you have to use mirrors to backup, maybe crank a window up or even row your own gears, 😂
Suddenly you get your kids friends in a circle looking at you car talking about how crazy people must have been in the 80's and 90's.
No Bluetooth, Lane assist, or auto braking... depending on the year maybe no ABS, 😂
This is what I, and others, like about older cars. No screen, no beeping, no nannies. And I appreciate my crank windows.
 

tikal

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Location
Southeast Texas
TDI
2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
You said the industry, not individual models. You could compare data on individual models, but reliability and durability are fairly subjective terms. For example, I think my MKIV TDI has been very durable, Friends of mine think it's a parts hog.
Ok, perhaps I need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture (on the average):

* Older less complex automotive technology = more reliable
* Newer more advanced and complex automotive technology = less reliable

Now, for CITY driving only one could make the argument that EVs have less moving parts/less complex and therefore they have an advantage over the same year model ICE in terms of reliability.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
You would be forced to have to buy a second ICE vehicle for road trips unless you do that very infrequently.
And at this point... having the most $$$ car for local use isn't what people want...
They typically want the more $$$ one for longer trips...
Then the older, presumably less reliable car in town.
It's a compromise that most people make...just because having TWO $$$ ISN'T VIABLE
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI the winter water wonderland
TDI
More than I need, less than I want
You don't see any Rivians, Silverado EVs, or Lightings where you live? I see them around here, especially Rivians.
If you were to estimate what you see in your area, omitting commercial, what would you say is the ratio of ICE to EV? I had my yearly physical this morning and I parked at the end corner of the lot. Roughly 120 cars and I noticed one hybrid. Several newer Chevy and Ford trucks, all with exhaust pipes. I know there are EV's around, but I'll stick with a no more than 3% that I am seeing. That's in Grand Rapids, by me, pretty much nonexistent outside of Amazon trucks.
Last couple years there's been at least two EV car shows in the GR and Muskegon area. I don't know how many showed up, maybe I'll be free to check one out this year.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Not directly EV related, but lithium battery prices (particularly LiFePo) have dropped massively over the last couple years. I'm about to add battery storage to my solar installation. Probably going with ~5kwh 48v server rack batteries, but the prices on some of the 12v 100ah batteries is tempting. The cheaper ones are around $100 now. Could do up to 16 in a 4 parallel, 4 series configuration for over 20kwh of storage. Leaning toward the server rack setup though.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
If you were to estimate what you see in your area, omitting commercial, what would you say is the ratio of ICE to EV?
I think the percentage of EVs on the road compared to ICE vehicles are in the very low single digits, perhaps less than 1%. Winter isn't kind to EVs, and charging stations have been very slow to appear around where I live. Honestly the only one I can think of is at a local Kia dealer. There's a Tesla "store" near IDParts, but I can't think of a Tesla charging station that I've seen near me.

I do see Rivians and Teslas around, including the (very) occasional Cybertruck. Sometimes an ID.4, and a Lightining or two. That's about it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
And it's a good thing those Tesla dealers don't exist, so no news stories about them being vandalized couldn't possibly be popping up almost daily now. They've taken to hiring armed guards (that presumably don't exist, either) to stay at some of them. Pathetic, really.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI the winter water wonderland
TDI
More than I need, less than I want
I think the percentage of EVs on the road compared to ICE vehicles are in the very low single digits, perhaps less than 1%. Winter isn't kind to EVs, and charging stations have been very slow to appear around where I live. Honestly the only one I can think of is at a local Kia dealer. There's a Tesla "store" near IDParts, but I can't think of a Tesla charging station that I've seen near me.

I do see Rivians and Teslas around, including the (very) occasional Cybertruck. Sometimes an ID.4, and a Lightining or two. That's about it.
That sounds typical of here, I would suspect your humidity is no less than ours either, that can't be a plus.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
I just got back from a two week vacation in Austin Tx, and the number of Teslas in that area is astounding. I'm sure the giant Tesla factory there has a lot to do with it. Kinda weird seeing Cyber trucks driving through your neighborhood regularly. Had to be a dozen or more Model Y for every Cybertruck though.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI the winter water wonderland
TDI
More than I need, less than I want
And it's a good thing those Tesla dealers don't exist, so no news stories about them being vandalized couldn't possibly be popping up almost daily now. They've taken to hiring armed guards (that presumably don't exist, either) to stay at some of them. Pathetic, really.
Funny you mention that. These EV guys who advertised a car show on Facebook, I follow a page that posts car shows in Michigan, got blasted by people. The typical internet style of voicing a difference of opinion. Anyway, it reminded me of some incidents that happened at the General Motors plant in GR in the late "70's on 2nd/3rd shift. People who drove Japanese cars to work had them stacked up by a Hilo and burned. I don't know whatever become of it.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Funny you mention that. These EV guys who advertised a car show on Facebook, I follow a page that posts car shows in Michigan, got blasted by people. The typical internet style of voicing a difference of opinion. Anyway, it reminded me of some incidents that happened at the General Motors plant in GR in the late "70's on 2nd/3rd shift. People who drove Japanese cars to work had them stacked up by a Hilo and burned. I don't know whatever become of it.
There's always a dark side to human nature. Around that time a Chinese American guy got beat to death in Detroit by a couple drunk union auto workers because they thought he looked Japanese.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Now, for CITY driving only one could make the argument that EVs have less moving parts/less complex and therefore they have an advantage over the same year model ICE in terms of reliability.
If we still had to commute, we would have considered an EV, but since we've retired the main emphasis on a second new car is the ability to walk out the door and take which ever vehicle we want to head off to wherever we aim it.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI the winter water wonderland
TDI
More than I need, less than I want
Not directly EV related, but lithium battery prices (particularly LiFePo) have dropped massively over the last couple years. I'm about to add battery storage to my solar installation. Probably going with ~5kwh 48v server rack batteries, but the prices on some of the 12v 100ah batteries is tempting. The cheaper ones are around $100 now. Could do up to 16 in a 4 parallel, 4 series configuration for over 20kwh of storage. Leaning toward the server rack setup though.
Friend of mine tried solar, but he ended up pretty disappointed. He didn't have optimal conditions though. Lack of space for adequate panels for cold weather charging. He ended up installing a natural gas unit to operate the furnace and freezers/fridge in case of power failure when he's gone in the winter. Installed the transfer switch between the main and remote panel in the garage. No extra hands in the pockets that way.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI the winter water wonderland
TDI
More than I need, less than I want
If we still had to commute, we would have considered an EV, but since we've retired the main emphasis on a second new car is the ability to walk out the door and take which ever vehicle we want to head off to wherever we aim it.
That's the same thing that makes an EV impractical for us. We're impulsive with our travels, often unscheduled, we generally pick a direction rather than a destination. Even our scheduled trips with a destination have no planned route.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
More evidence to add to Hertz's losses when they switched to EVs- Motability, a British charity that buys and then leases accessible cars to people with disabilities just reported a half billion dollar loss for last year after they switched to EVs!
 

DPM

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
More evidence to add to Hertz's losses when they switched to EVs- Motability, a British charity that buys and then leases accessible cars to people with disabilities just reported a half billion dollar loss for last year after they switched to EVs!
umm, nope, Motability have not "switched" to EVs. You can certainly choose one, but the co-pay (users can put money towards a fancier car) may rule out many options for lots of people.
 

gearheadgrrrl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2002
Location
Buffalo Ridge (southwest Minnesota)
TDI
'15 Golf DSG, '13 JSW DSG surrendered to VW, '03 Golf 2 door manual
Correct, Motability still offers non-EVs but the TVs are dominating the market. The Autocar article noted other problems like increased insurance costs, but that may be related to the higher costs of repairing or totaling EVs. BTW, I have a lot of respect for Motability- I live in the USA but used the huge amount of new vehicle data on their website to confirm that a Transit Connect had a low enough seat and loading heights for me.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Mountain Home, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
All I know is that for my use, an EV won't be practical, ever, unless we start seeing ranges while towing lower loads (2000-3000 pounds) of about 400-500 miles per charge, and a price tag used of under $15k.
 
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