real world EVs review

[kjclow]

It has to look different, or your neighbors won't know that you've joined the EV group. That was part of Honda's argument for why their hybrids didn't take off as well as the prius. I'd like to see them offer the Scout in a shorter wheelbase with the removable hardtop, but I'm sure it will roll out as a fully tarted turd with only the Scout badge looking like the original.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Drove by my local GMC dealer this morning and they had 3 Hummer EVs out front. I bet they're enjoying the floor plan payments on those.

 

[oilhammer]

They were probably forced to take them, too. There's a lawsuit pending against Ford for that. Because some dealers are stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of Mach-Es and Lightnings sitting gathering dust and Ford won't let them get discounted, because THEY'VE also lost [a lot more] money on them.

 

[El Dobro]

https://www.vwidtalk.com/posts/287097/

"An interesting study from McKinsey.

Some of my takeaways, assuming McKinsey projections are accurate but they seem to be realistic;

- According to their findings, almost half (46%) of US EV drivers intend to move back to an ICE. (My estimation is that most are Tesla drivers and the charging experience is still not good enough.)

- Battery/range and charging improvements have failed to keep up with expectations.

- For 2024 -2026 EV growth is expected to grow at 1-2% ( basically growing with population which means to me, little to no market penetration improvement. This might indicate state of flux where there are new users being balanced out by those leaving EVs?)

Some info about the interest in autonomous driving ( which has nothing to do with EVs, actually)


https://executivedigest.sapo.pt/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Mobility-Consumer-Pulse-2024_Overview.pdf "

Sounds like 46% of Americans didn't do their homework and personally, I think that percentage is questionable. Nearly half EV purchasers didn't know what they were getting? I can't find where the samples were taken 'cause that could also make a world of difference. The worldwide average is 29%. I'm also trying to find out how they are funded, which can also make a difference. I found one "news" agency that had somewhat spurious articles regarding EVs on MSN was funded from a firm in Qatar and another was funded by a petroleum institute in Texas. Hmmm...

 

[kjclow]

Drove by my local GMC dealer this morning and they had 3 Hummer EVs out front. I bet they're enjoying the floor plan payments on those.

I saw my first hummer ev in the wild the other day. Not quite as ugly as other things but maybe I've grown accustomed to its face.

I figured out the new company name: Rivagon

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

Not good news for VW Group, increasing EV investment while demand has plateaued is not a good move. VW Group, Ford, and GM have bet their companies on dedicated EV platforms that will be millstones around their corporate necks if EV sales don't improve, while companies that moved more cautiously like Toyota, BMW, etc. will profit from the EV over investor's mistakes.

 

[oilhammer]

Toyota has invested in Panasonic even more than they already had previously, all for EV battery tech. And since Toyota has already invested in hybrids, they're already a leg up on much of the competition. News flash: if you already have a "plug-in hybrid", then you already have an EV, and it doesn't take much of a step to replace the engine with a larger battery. The ancillaries are already in place. Electric HVAC, steering assist, etc. all work the exact same way.

BMW is, like VAG, moving right over the hybrid phase, but is probably going to dial back their lofty EV sales goals just the same.

Most investors see long term, but things change often quicker or slower than anticipated.

 

[El Dobro]

The McKinsey survey is taken on in this article.

Are Drivers Giving Up On EVs & Returning To Fossil Fuels? - CleanTechnica

Conflicting surveys are questioning whether drivers are giving up on evs and returning to fossil fuels, more information is needed.

cleantechnica.com

 

[oilhammer]

One thing I think that gets perhaps glossed over is that the general state of the vehicles on the road right now. New vehicle sales have slowed, but that also means the vehicles ON the road are being KEPT on the road longer, too.

 

[jmodge]

They were probably forced to take them, too. There's a lawsuit pending against Ford for that. Because some dealers are stuck with hundreds of thousands of dollars of Mach-Es and Lightnings sitting gathering dust and Ford won't let them get discounted, because THEY'VE also lost [a lot more] money on them.

Maybe dollar store renditions of car dealers will start popping up everywhere one of these days. Or maybe there's enough demand for simplicity that automotive/transportation manufacturing cycles toward that direction........I suppose I could try holding my breath. Either way, I'll probably be dead before something pops up on the showroom floor I feel comfortable investing in

 

[dieseldonato]

With the cost of new vehicles and the huge market for good used vehicles, it makes sense to keep your current vehicle as long as possible and in good repair. Just this week one of the kids I work with started restoring a 90's f 350 he found. Got it at a good price, body is in very nice shape for our area. Till he's done redoing/updating everything he'll still be in it less then any used 1/2 ton pick up with tons of miles on it and ridden like a carnival ride let alone even a semi modern pick up. Who has a spare $50-70+k laying around these days?

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

My friend's Mopar Minivan with the front struts supported by the cowl mercifully blew it's engine, but not before he'd blown $500 getting it running, plated, and insured. He managed to get a $1500 loan from his credit union and replaced it with an '05 Taurus, seems to have some life in it with "only" 120K miles, 3 liter pushrod V6, tires with tread and only 5 years old, and written evidence of oil changes at least. He already wants to drive it Minnesota to Oregon and back, I suggested he drive to the much closer Amtrak station and let them get him there and back for less $$$.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

This crazy market's got me thinking, got a 92K miles pretty much rust free '98 Ranger 4WD out back in pieces that I should put back together and the Golf 4 TDI is running with rusty rocker panels... But my physical abilities are declining and the Golf7's upcoming 80K mile service has me strategizing making my shop more accessible. As OilHammer has noted, automakers seem to be propping up EV prices so there's no bargains to be found- I'd buy a new EV if the price dropped under $10K after tax incentives but there's none to be found. Rumor has it that the Porsche Boxer/Cayman are at end of life, tempted to drop by a dealer and see if I can get in and out of one before they throw me outa the place. But will probably finish my 10 year marriage to the Golf 7 TDI and maybe a GTI or Golf R after that...

 

[gulfcoastguy]

I think the Rivian thing makes sense. VAG isn't getting anywhere fast with their EV endeavors, and Rivian is hemorrhaging money pretty bad. VAG has lots of money, and what better way to get a fast track to doing something you suck at than just buying a company that perhaps sucks less? It may get the whole Scout thing going again, too, although I still think that's going to go over as well as Harley-Davidson's electric motorcycles have. But we'll see. Marketing is a funny thing.

I still think part of the ID.4's failure is its so damn ugly and has such awful ergonomics... something that other VAG products just don't suffer with. Heck, even the Chinese-designed Taos looks better. Why so many of these companies seem to think making an EV off-the-chart intolerably ugly is beyond me.

I agree with your first paragraph completely. As to the second the ID4 looks pretty much like most other CUVs, function dictates fashion. They could use some better colors. On the inside it does have a steering mounted display unlike most other new vehicles. It displays the speed and other vital information directly in front of you and is always visible, never blocked by the steering wheel . The gear shift is neatly tucked away from accidental use and takes 2 minutes to learn how to use. The window switches are a special kind of stupid. Lack of back lighting on certain central display items is another mistake. The software has been steadily improved.
The 2024’s coming out have cured most of the problems other than the window controls.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I was talking to a colleague about this today. He had an early ID.4 and now has a Rivian. He says that VW's big EV failing is the electronics. They just don't seem to be able to figure it out. He said that they have finally, but just barely, figured out over-the-air updates. And their engine tech and efficiency are not leading. He thinks (as I think someone else has posted) they'll use the Rivian "skateboard" for the Scout.

 

[Daemon64]

Heyo,

Minor update. P2 got in a minor accident few weeks ago, a toyota carolla backed into it in a lows parking lot when i was stopped. The P2 had a small crack in the middle of the bumper which was repaired, the bumper on the carolla was trashed, and it dented the rear metal trunk on the carolla like 18 inches across. Mind you everything the carolla hit was plastic. Its up and running no problem again, lease ends and turn in is 4/1/25... just waiting it out at this point. Still hate EA, and refuse to distance travel this thing, and tesla network not up and running on it yet. But for a sub 200 mile total drive it does real well.

I cancelled my RS3 pre-order and went through a few other ideas in the audi family. But as of right meow it appears my interest is very heavily in a '25 Hyundai Santa Cruz --- Waiting for the 2025 NY Auto show so i can sit in it in person, and test drive it. ( I am still well in the middle of renovating my house and get uhaul vans regularly enough and with the pellet stove want something where i can tow... found a 5k aluminum trailer that only weights 800lbs, so i can go pick up my year 2 tons of wood pellets ).

Pellet Stove rocked out hard this winter: 2.25 Tons of Softwood Pellets to heat 2,531sqft house, was only source of heat and did well.

 

[oilhammer]

I think the ID.4 looks terrible... but I also think a lot of the current crop of crossdressers also look terrible. And I find the inside ergonomics awful. If it takes two minutes to "learn how to use a gearshifter", that's two minutes too long, and two minutes longer than literally any other VAG product sold here today or in the past. That's the whole point.... you should not even have to learn, it should be simple and intuitive. You could throw just about any person who has driven just about any car in any other car, and they'd not have an issue getting it to simply move. EVs are sadly all too often NOT like that, and there is no reason that they need to be other than the designers thought that's how people wanted them.

That's why the only Prius model I could ever tolerate was the C. Why? It had a simple key, that went into the steering column in the same place and worked the same way as any other Toyota (or most any car) from a 1990 Camry to a 1980 Celica. It had a conventional 'P-R-N-D' gear selector in the same place in the console as any normal car might have one. It had a simple parking brake in the center console with a button on the end. If you had a time machine, and you could take that Prius C back to 1975, I guarantee you that you could hand the key to someone that drove a 1975 Corolla every day and they could hop in that C, start it, and drive it anywhere without and pondering or instructions.

There's a reason why the original mousetrap design from the 1890s is still sold in stores today (the wooden one with the spring and trigger). Because they work. They're simple, reliable, cheap, and dependable.

 

[kjclow]

I drove a new Class C RV based on the Sprinter the other day. Trying to figure out how to shift it out of park, into reverse and then into drive had a learning curve. It's all on a window wiper type of stalk. Up for drive and down for reverse, but then you have to push the button in to put it into park. Geesh

 

[oilhammer]

Yeah, all those E-shift things are a pain. Some are worse than others. Some the "shifter" moves, and some, they don't. Yet they "look" the same. Again, any time you have to watch an indicator on a display to know what gear your automatic transmission is in, instead of the ability to do it by feel, you've made the car worse.

The new F-trucks with the column shifter are a trip... they look and almost move like a real column shifter, but they are fake. And if you shut the engine off with it not in Park, it magically moves itself up into Park on its own. It's a trip.

Ever look inside a police package car like the last of the Taurus, or the Explorer or Durango or Charger? You know what they DON'T have? Those idiotic e-shifters. They have a good ol' fashioned mechanical column mounted shifter. Because when you need to slam that puppy into Park and bang it off that park pawl like you didn't pay for it because you didn't, in order to jump out and chase a perp, instead of the car's computers trying to decide if you indeed did come to a complete stop, the VSS signal is at 0 and has remained at 0 for several milliseconds, your foot is still on the brake pedal, the sunvisor position sensor feedback is as expected, the engine is at idle speed, and THEN the servo will place the transmission in Park.

 

[El Dobro]

This is why I like the Bolts, all the controls are normal. Turn signals, wipers, HVAC, sound system, all normal. No looking for menus.

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

One of the things that kept me in Golfs and VWs for decades was the way the Golf 7s heater controls worked by feel just like they did in my Golf 6, 4, 2, and 1. With the Golf 8s menus to navigate just basic heater controls, VW has lost me...

 

[Daemon64]

One of the things that kept me in Golfs and VWs for decades was the way the Golf 7s heater controls worked by feel just like they did in my Golf 6, 4, 2, and 1. With the Golf 8s menus to navigate just basic heater controls, VW has lost me...

it is midly annoying in the mk8 golf r, so i feel that for sure

 

[turbobrick240]

This major investment by VW into Rivian is quite interesting. I don't think VW lags behind Rivian in motor or battery tech, but they absolutely do in system integration and software. Basing the new Scout line on Rivians platform would be a very smart move, imo.

 

[oilhammer]

Basing the new Scout on the Amarok platform would be infinitely better. And if they got their head out of their ass and offered it with a diesel HERE, they'd really have something. But that's not going to happen.

 

[Daemon64]

This major investment by VW into Rivian is quite interesting. I don't think VW lags behind Rivian in motor or battery tech, but they absolutely do in system integration and software. Basing the new Scout line on Rivians platform would be a very smart move, imo.

It's the difference of having your company run by an actual engineer...

 

[Daemon64]

Basing the new Scout on the Amarok platform would be infinitely better. And if they got their head out of their ass and offered it with a diesel HERE, they'd really have something. But that's not going to happen.

Yep. I'm looking at the santa cruz, but a diesel Amarok, would be my first choice for sure if it were available

 

[gearheadgrrrl]

IIRC the new Anorak is a "badge engineered" Ford Ranger...

 

[turbobrick240]

Damn, $65k for what is essentially a Ford Ranger with slightly different tin and a 2L turbodiesel is nuts!

Loading…

www.caranddriver.com

 

[T1MMBOJONES]

Rich Rebuilds has a video where he took a new Rivian on a road trip to FL. He had a terrible time finding chargers. And one fill he showed cost him $.32/mile. That's probably more than it would cost to run a Powerstroke.

couple years late i know but my 7.3l E350 averages 17mpgs and when driven strictly on the highway i can get 20 even. so even at $4.00/gallon thats around $.23/mile or less. i know the newer ones arent as efficient however.

 

[Zak99b5]

I think the Rivian thing makes sense. VAG isn't getting anywhere fast with their EV endeavors, and Rivian is hemorrhaging money pretty bad. VAG has lots of money, and what better way to get a fast track to doing something you suck at than just buying a company that perhaps sucks less? It may get the whole Scout thing going again, too, although I still think that's going to go over as well as Harley-Davidson's electric motorcycles have. But we'll see. Marketing is a funny thing.

Same reason VW bought Audi--moving from RR to FF (not to mention water cooled), and they needed the experience building such a drivetrain. Of course Audi built longitudinal layouts, but they were in the ballpark.