real world EVs review

turbobrick240

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I used to use almost exactly 50 gallons of diesel in my trips to Austin. 43 mpg avg. Now I get 33 mpg, but RUG is a fair bit cheaper.
 

Mcgink

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I used to use almost exactly 50 gallons of diesel in my trips to Austin. 43 mpg avg. Now I get 33 mpg, but RUG is a fair bit cheaper.
Agreed, Diesel cars were a much better option back when Diesel was cheap in summer and well before LSD fuel and Urea etc.
 

turbobrick240

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Agreed, Diesel cars were a much better option back when Diesel was cheap in summer and well before LSD fuel and Urea etc.
Yup, the good ol' days when diesel was cheaper than gas and good and greasy, lol. If you spilled that stuff on your jeans the grease stain was never coming out!
 

turbobrick240

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Rockland Maine has just opened the first NEVI funded Tesla Supercharger station in the US. It has the new V4 charging pedestals, but only V3 power cabinets. 5 of the 8 stalls have adapters to charge CCS vehicles. CCS vehicles with 800v architecture max out at 100 kW charging there due to the V3 cabinets. Teslas and other 400V architecture EVs can do 150+ kW.

Another NEVI funded Supercharger site just down the road in Waldoboro is getting both the V4 pedestals and power cabinets that support up to 1000V charging.

 

gearheadgrrrl

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Unless they fully enable other brand charging, useless to me. Like the dozen TSLA chargers that just popped up 20 miles away with no known Teslas in our county, useless because TSLA has no service points within 170 miles. At TSLA's dollar a mile round trip and $100 minimum service charge, by the time you add sales tax any Tesla service costs at least $500 here, so the chargers are useless!
 

turbobrick240

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That's a Hyundai charging at the new Rockland site in the video. Any CCS or NACS EV can charge at the NEVI funded chargers. That's the whole point really.

You can also charge Fords and Rivians at those chargers 20 miles away, with virtually every other brand of EV available here set to join them at some point this year.
 
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gearheadgrrrl

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You can charge a new 2024 Ford EV there (No local dealer for future orphan Rivian) until Elon has another tantrum and shuts you off. Still won't get you far going north or west where the available chargers are even rarer. And how long can this fiscal nonsense of installing a dozen chargers for the two dozen EVs in the county continue?
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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gearheadgrrrl, if there aren't any chargers people may not buy EVs. That's not fiscal nonsense, it's supporting future demand.
 

kjclow

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the argument has always been "I won't buy one if there isn't any place to charge it". Now that they're building the infrastructure to meet future demand, I guess the argument changes to "That's a waste of taxpayer funds".
 

turbobrick240

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You can charge a new 2024 Ford EV there (No local dealer for future orphan Rivian) until Elon has another tantrum and shuts you off. Still won't get you far going north or west where the available chargers are even rarer. And how long can this fiscal nonsense of installing a dozen chargers for the two dozen EVs in the county continue?
You can charge any year Ford EV with CCS charging there. Provided you got an adapter- free or otherwise. NACS and CCS are now the same protocol essentially, just different plugs. Those chargers are there both for travelers and future growth in that EV market. I find it difficult to believe that there are zero Teslas in your county, however small or rural it may be. I live in an extremely small and rural town and I know of several Tesla owners here.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Even the beginnings of that "future growth" have yet to appear- There are 25 EVs registered in this county of 25K people and that includes plug in hybrids. I know of a couple EVs, but they're not Teslas. The local Chevy and Ford dealers sell and service EVs, so no point in buying a Tesla here and paying $500 and up for even minor service.
 

turbobrick240

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You can be pretty sure that at least a couple of those 25 EVs are Teslas. And that is probably year old data. Not that it really matters- all of the BEVs are extremely efficient.
 

gulfcoastguy

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Because people from elsewhere might need to travel through your nowhere.
You can charge a new 2024 Ford EV there (No local dealer for future orphan Rivian) until Elon has another tantrum and shuts you off. Still won't get you far going north or west where the available chargers are even rarer. And how long can this fiscal nonsense of installing a dozen chargers for the two dozen EVs in the county continue?
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Because people from elsewhere might need to travel through your nowhere.
Looking at the traffic counts, we approach 10K vehicles/day in the largest city in our county but the counts drop to below 5K vehicles a day 15-25 miles away at the county lines. So will take a lot of visiting Teslas to keep those chargers busy, but we taxpayers subsidized them so TSLA made their money and could care less. Honestly, the economics of EV infrastructure are so bad out here that I'd rather see the funding spent to put them where they'll be used.
 

gulfcoastguy

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Looking at the traffic counts, we approach 10K vehicles/day in the largest city in our county but the counts drop to below 5K vehicles a day 15-25 miles away at the county lines. So will take a lot of visiting Teslas to keep those chargers busy, but we taxpayers subsidized them so TSLA made their money and could care less. Honestly, the economics of EV infrastructure are so bad out here that I'd rather see the funding spent to put them where they'll be used.
Which is evenly spaced out along highways, hopefully near where other major roads are intersected. If people can’t drive them to grandmas house for Thanksgiving they won’t buy them. The vast majority of local travel is handled by charging at home.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Which is evenly spaced out along highways, hopefully near where other major roads are intersected. If people can’t drive them to grandmas house for Thanksgiving they won’t buy them. The vast majority of local travel is handled by charging at home.
The demographics make a mockery of that theory- 60% of Minnesota's population live in the MSP metro and about 80% of Minnesota's EVs are there. The only big concentration of EVs in the rest of Minnesota is in the Rochester micropolitan area, probably thanks to the Mayo Clinic's high salaries. The heaviest traffic counts are in that metro and run into 6 figures on some of the freeways, but even stretches of Interstate in rural Minnesota have daily traffic counts below 10,000. Fact is that most driving is near home and there aren't enough trips to visit grandma out here to justify EV infrastructure.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Did you not read the last sentence in my post? A new idea and a cold drink of water!
Doesn't work here- Plug in 2 F150 EVs and it would probably blackout our town. The EVs I could afford have the range of a Bolt or a Leaf, throw in winter and the prevailing winds and you'd have a hundred mile range that wouldn't get you to a city of over 20K population.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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70 miles away so 140 miles round trip which gets iffy in a low price EV in winter.
I'm sure there are charging stations in Sioux Falls. And if someone is traveling from there to your area, they'd appreciate the charging station near you. Just like it's a good thing to have a gasoline/diesel station nearby.

A base Tesla Model 3 would make that trip without a problem, even in winter. And because it's so efficient, charging times are very short.

Although I have no intention of buying an EV, spending federal money on the charging network doesn't bother me, for some reason. Maybe more people driving EVs will allow us to drive our polluting ICE vehicles a while longer.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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I'm sure there are charging stations in Sioux Falls. And if someone is traveling from there to your area, they'd appreciate the charging station near you. Just like it's a good thing to have a gasoline/diesel station nearby.

A base Tesla Model 3 would make that trip without a problem, even in winter. And because it's so efficient, charging times are very short.

Although I have no intention of buying an EV, spending federal money on the charging network doesn't bother me, for some reason. Maybe more people driving EVs will allow us to drive our polluting ICE vehicles a while longer.
I don't do much business in Sioux Falls because the state is becoming increasingly backward and they charge 6-7% sales tax on food and clothes while my home state of Minnesota charges none. There's a handful of fast chargers in Sioux Falls and all but one is at car dealers so you may find them blocked by one of the dealers cars or shut off, so the sole remaining fast charger is a TSLA site at a HyVee supermarket which is way more expensive that Costco where I shop. Thus a trip to SiouxFalls that required charging would require a TSLA compatible EV and waste a lot of time at a store I seldom shop.

As I usually stock up and spend a couple hundred dollars at Costco, it's cheaper for me to drive another 160 miles to the Costco stores in St.Cloud or the western suburbs of Minneapolis. There's a couple fast chargers along the way, but they were put there by the local municipal power, are seldom used, and will probably be scrapped when they can no longer be cheaply repaired. There's more charging in the Minneapolis metro area, but the reliable ones are at expensive establishments I seldom patronize.

As for subsidizing the charging network, we're probably past the point where that investment was necessary and the EV industry can afford to build it's own. Out here where I live the economics of gas stations with shrinking populations mean that in a few years gas stations will often be 50 miles apart, so hard to justify EV chargers at six figure prices when less than one percent of the vehicles here are EVs.
 

turbobrick240

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The vast majority of Tesla's supercharger network was built out on their own dime without subsidies. Similar situation with EA- built out on VW's dime for infractions that we're all familiar with. The NEVI and IRA funding for charging infrastructure is just starting to trickle in now. I'm fine with that too. I pay taxes on lots of public services that don't benefit me directly, but they benefit the community as a whole.
 

gulfcoastguy

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The vast majority of Tesla's supercharger network was built out on their own dime without subsidies. Similar situation with EA- built out on VW's dime for infractions that we're all familiar with. The NEVI and IRA funding for charging infrastructure is just starting to trickle in now. I'm fine with that too. I pay taxes on lots of public services that don't benefit me directly, but they benefit the community as a whole.
I own an EV, a VW EV at that, as my sole vehicle but Tesla was heavily subsidized. They had the same $7,500 tax credits as all US EV makers until they exceeded the limit, didn't have it for 2 or 3 years, then with the election of the current president got it again. They had many years of selling billions of dollars worth of carbon credits. Many states gave them a state tax credit or rebate on top of that. Currently US battery plants receive a federal subsidy which effectively increases EV profit margin. Tesla is the largest bid winner in NEVI contracts despite their intention, in violation of NEVI terms, to charge non Tesla EVs an extra $12.95 a month to use the Tesla Superchargers. Elon never had a business that was not federal subsidized in one form or another. That said my state has decided to not even request bids for NEVI stations until after the upcoming elections. Color me disillusioned.
 

turbobrick240

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You should move to Canada and become an EV infrastructure advocate here.
It wouldn't be too far of a move, but I think you guys have the situation in hand. Thanks for the invite, though!
 

turbobrick240

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I own an EV, a VW EV at that, as my sole vehicle but Tesla was heavily subsidized. They had the same $7,500 tax credits as all US EV makers until they exceeded the limit, didn't have it for 2 or 3 years, then with the election of the current president got it again. They had many years of selling billions of dollars worth of carbon credits. Many states gave them a state tax credit or rebate on top of that. Currently US battery plants receive a federal subsidy which effectively increases EV profit margin. Tesla is the largest bid winner in NEVI contracts despite their intention, in violation of NEVI terms, to charge non Tesla EVs an extra $12.95 a month to use the Tesla Superchargers. Elon never had a business that was not federal subsidized in one form or another. That said my state has decided to not even request bids for NEVI stations until after the upcoming elections. Color me disillusioned.
Unlike VW/EA, nobody forced Tesla to build out charging infrastructure. They did it out of their own foresight and good business acumen. That's no small part of why they are so dominant in the EV market here.
 
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