Reading soot level with Torque

550TDI

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2018
Location
Qld, Australia
TDI
v6 Amarok 550TDI
Just got myself a new Ross-Tech Cable. Should arrive next week.
So I may be able to investigate the Soot levels Pids.
Is anybody knows where to look for them in vcds?
Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

mucden

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Location
Hungary
TDI
Skoda Octavia CAYC
Just got myself a new Ross-Tech Cable. Should arrive next week.
So I may be able to investigate the Soot levels Pids.
Is anybody knows where to look for them in vcds?
Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Go to Engine/Advanced Measuring values! Type *soot* into the text field.
The auto filter will search it out.
 

mucden

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Location
Hungary
TDI
Skoda Octavia CAYC
Maybe you will find this useful.
I've found some info regarding mode $06 in the J1699_3_201707 standard and in the J1979DA_201702 Appendix.
This is how the respond message look like in case of a $06 request:

The MIDs, “Unit and Scaling” definitions can be found in the J1979DA_201702 Appendix.
For ex:

(reminder: after B2C5 in the 06B2 respond 0x36 is the unit code, then come the measured value, min limit, max limit, each 2 bites long)
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
I use VagDpf and my regens start when there is approx. 24 grams of soot and runs until it burns off to 4 or 6 grams. Something seems amiss.
 

Wacholek

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Poland
TDI
Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI DFFA
Hi everyone,
My name is Chris and I'm new here:)
but let's cut to the chase...

I have studied this topic thoroughly and I have notice that tere is no new cars(past 2018) involve it the discussion, so I've decided to put my two cents worth in here.

I have Skoda Octavia 2019 (MY2020) 2.0 TDI 150PS MT DFFA with SCR aftertreatment (AdBlue), so the same engine as in Golf or Passat.

From the beginning I was planning to integrate the Torque app with this car but it seems that is will not be ass straightforward as should be.

What I know so far:
1. Almost all commands from the standard OBD PID list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs), which are related to DPF, does not work.

017A - no responce
017B - no responce
017C - no responce
018b - no responce

06b2 -
0: 46B2C9FC004B
1: 800001C2000000

Unfortunately after a 30km of driving there where no changes in 06b2 respons. Maybe there will be change while the DPF will regenerate but I have to wait to test it.

2. Vag DPF shows DPF info. So as OBDeleven.
3. Both above mentioned apk shows 3 values of the DPF saturation of soot.
The procent value changes from (in my car) 22%(the min value I ever achieve) to 100% ( I tried to block regeneration using OBDeleven but no luck).
The calculated soot mass (in grams) form 6 to 24g.
The measured soot mass (in grams) form -9.99g to 22g.

Both The procent value and calculated soot mass are an indicators only calculated by the ECU and there is no stiff relationship to the real soot value in DPF. It can be nicely seen comparing min value of measured soot mass ( which is a real soot mass) just after the regeneration process has finished. In most cased the value is different and varies between -9.99g and -5g.

As we know we can force the ECU to regenerate during driving. When we do that both procent value and calculated soot mass goes to its max values (100 and 24) and the regeneration process starts, even that the measured soot mass is -5g. The regeneration time in that case is a bit shorter but not much. Both procent value and calculated soot mass is slowly decreasing even that the real measured soot mass can't go below -10g.

4. I came across the PID list from ScanGage.com: https://www.scangauge.com/support/x-gauge-commands/volkswagen/
I do not understand the TXD values. How to decode it to the Torque language? I will work on that, stay tuned. Very interesting information.

5. I have noticed that one of the standard (bulid-in) PIDs in Torque is showing a EGT value which is displayed in VAG DPF.
-Exhaust gas temp Bank 1 Sensor 3 (pid ff1283) - DPF Input Gas Temp.
-Exhaust gas temp Bank 1 Sensor 4 (pid ff1284) - DPF Output Gas Temp.

6. Since VAG DPF is working ok those data are there for sure. So I will try to get info of the PID using Bluetooth HCI snoop log but I have to get different phone. Stay tuned.
 

Wacholek

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Poland
TDI
Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI DFFA
The news...
I have a list of commands send by VagDPF.
They should be in that order but I still need some test. I have marked RED those PID's that I identified for 100%. The list will be updated soon. Stay tuned.
Soot mass calculated:
- send: 222609
- received: 7E8 05 622609 05CA
{05CA- 1482[mg] (14,82g)}
Regeneration duration:
- send: 221AC0
- received: 7E8037F2278
7E805621AC00000
Distance since last end of regeneration:
- send: 221ABA
- received: 7E8037F2278
7E805621ABA0690
{0690 - 1680*100= 168000m=168,0km}

Time since last regeneration:
- send: 221AC3
- received: 7E8037F2278
7E805621AC307DE
Oil ash residue (g)
- send: 221ABD
- received: 7E807621ABD0066CD63
Low pressure EGR colosing
- send: 2217F4
- received: 7E8056217F404AF
DPF input gas temp.
- send: 2211B2
- received: 7E8056211B212C7
DPF output gas temp.
- send: 2210F9
- received: 7E8056210F911CA
Soot mass measured(g)
- send: 221ABE
- received: 7E805621ABE05A9
Post injection 2 (mg/str)
- send: 22163B
- received: 7E80562163B0000
Post injection 3 (mg/str)
- send: 22167D
- received: 7E80562167D0000
Pressure before or after dpf
- send: 22162F
- received: 7E80562162F0033
Pressure before or after dpf
- send: 2216A9
- received: 7E8076216A900000D18
And now....
I really don't know how to put those commands in the Torque.
When OBD header field is empty all those commands give NO RESPONS.
When heder is set to auto some crazy sh*** happens.
For example:
send: 221ac0
response: 7F2278
621AC00000
Have no idee what kind respons is that. Torque does not recognize the A,B,C... byte so no equation can be made to have some reasonable output data.
I can also provide full init command set for the ELM327 made by VagDPF.
Any help would be appreciated.
 
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sportwagen3

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Location
MD
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
Here's some of the formulas (see below) I already and can use on Android Auto via OBD2AA app, which uses the data read through the Torque app. Copy and paste the file into a text file and then convert it to a CSV file using Excel using space as a delimiter and it should convert properly. I mostly compiled this through this forum as I believe someone posted most of these values and others added additional values when they were found. As to the data you're receiving, I have no idea, but I would definitely be interested in converting the regen duration since that gives me an idea how much longer until the regen ends.

Name ShortName ModeAndPID Equation Min Value Max Value Units Header
VW_Charged_Air_Cooler_Temperature CACT 0177 B-40 -40 215 °C Auto
VW_Engine_Coolant_Temperature Coolant 0167 B-40 -40 215 °C Auto
VW_Fuel_Flow Fuel_Flow 015E ((A*256)+B)*0.05 0 15 l/hr Auto
VW_Boost Boost 0170 (((D*256)+E)/32) 0 24 kPa Auto
VW_DPF_Delta DPF_Delta 017A ((B*256)+C)/100 0 10 kPa Auto
VW_Exhaust_Pressure Exhaust_Pressure 0173 ((B*256)+C)/100 0 10 kPa Auto
VW_Fuel_Pressure Fuel_Pressure 016D ((D*256)+E)*10 0 65536 kPa Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_1 TURBO_IN 0178 (((B*256)+C)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_2 CAT_OX_IN 0178 (((D*256)+E)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_3 DPF_IN 0178 (((F*256)+G)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_4 DPF_OUT 0178 (((H*256)+I)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_DPF_% DPF_% 018b (C*100)/255 0 100 % Auto
VW_Regen Regen 018b Équation {B:0}* 0 1 Auto
VW_DPF_Soot_(Measured) Soot 06b2 ((R13<8)+R14)/100 0 30 g Auto
VW_DPF_Soot_(Calculated) Soot_(Regen) 06b2 ((R40<8)+R41)/100 0 30 g Auto
 
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Wacholek

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Poland
TDI
Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI DFFA
Here's some of the formulas (see below) I already and can use on Android Auto via OBD2AA app, which uses the data read through the Torque app. Copy and paste the file into a text file and then convert it to a CSV file using Excel using space as a delimiter and it should convert properly. I mostly compiled this through this forum as I believe someone posted most of these values and others added additional values when they were found. As to the data you're receiving, I have no idea, but I would definitely be interested in converting the regen duration since that gives me an idea how much longer until the regen ends.

Name ShortName ModeAndPID Equation Min Value Max Value Units Header
VW_Charged_Air_Cooler_Temperature CACT 0177 B-40 -40 215 °C Auto
VW_Engine_Coolant_Temperature Coolant 0167 B-40 -40 215 °C Auto
VW_Fuel_Flow Fuel_Flow 015E ((A*256)+B)*0.05 0 15 l/hr Auto
VW_Boost Boost 0170 (((D*256)+E)/32) 0 24 kPa Auto
VW_DPF_Delta DPF_Delta 017A ((B*256)+C)/100 0 10 kPa Auto
VW_Exhaust_Pressure Exhaust_Pressure 0173 ((B*256)+C)/100 0 10 kPa Auto
VW_Fuel_Pressure Fuel_Pressure 016D ((D*256)+E)*10 0 65536 kPa Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_1 TURBO_IN 0178 (((B*256)+C)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_2 CAT_OX_IN 0178 (((D*256)+E)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_3 DPF_IN 0178 (((F*256)+G)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_Exhaust_Temperature_4 DPF_OUT 0178 (((H*256)+I)/10)-40 -40 1500 °C Auto
VW_DPF_% DPF_% 018b (C*100)/255 0 100 % Auto
VW_Regen Regen 018b Équation {B:0}* 0 1 Auto
VW_DPF_Soot_(Measured) Soot 06b2 ((R13<8)+R14)/100 0 30 g Auto
VW_DPF_Soot_(Calculated) Soot_(Regen) 06b2 ((R40<8)+R41)/100 0 30 g Auto
Thanks for that info. Unfortunately most of those PID's does not work in my car. I will test that later on other few other cars.
I also have OBD2AA and it works great on new cars except the fact that it is still using Torque.
I'm able to test almost any configuration on following cars:
Skoda Raid 1.6 TDI 90ps MY2014
Skoda Octavia 1.6 TDI 105PS MY2016
Skoda Octavia 1.6 TDI 110PS MY 2017
Skoda Octavia 1.6 TDI 115PS MY 2018
Skoda Octavia 1.6 TDI 115PS SCR MY 2019
Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI 150PS SCR MY 2020

On all of those cars Vag DPF is working flawlessly.
I will test Torque and my debugged commands using Serial Bluetooth Terminal. It should give more consistent results.
 

Wacholek

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Poland
TDI
Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI DFFA
VagDPF communicates on the CAN bus from my reading. I don't think Torque and Vag DPF commands are compatible.
Definitely Torque is not straightforward compatible.
Command 222609 (Calculated soot mass) gives strange response. I have to talk with the creator of the Torque. He should make this app compatible with the new cars, because now it is not.
I will post that info later but major problem is that Torque does not detect bytes so there is a problem with interpretation of the results. So far I will mark the 100% results with the proper function on my last post.
 

fkoca5055

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Location
Turkey
TDI
Golf 7 1.6tdi 77kw
The news...
I have a list of commands send by VagDPF.
They should be in that order but I still need some test. I have marked RED those PID's that I identified for 100%. The list will be updated soon. Stay tuned.
Soot mass calculated:
- send: 222609
- received: 7E8 05 622609 05CA
{05CA- 1482[mg] (14,82g)}
Regeneration duration:
- send: 221AC0
- received: 7E8037F2278
7E805621AC00000
Distance since last end of regeneration:
- send: 221ABA
- received: 7E8037F2278
7E805621ABA0690
{0690 - 1680*100= 168000m=168,0km}
Time since last regeneration:
- send: 221AC3
- received: 7E8037F2278
7E805621AC307DE
Oil ash residue (g)
- send: 221ABD
- received: 7E807621ABD0066CD63
Low pressure EGR colosing
- send: 2217F4
- received: 7E8056217F404AF
DPF input gas temp.
- send: 2211B2
- received: 7E8056211B212C7
DPF output gas temp.
- send: 2210F9
- received: 7E8056210F911CA
Soot mass measured(g)
- send: 221ABE
- received: 7E805621ABE05A9
Post injection 2 (mg/str)
- send: 22163B
- received: 7E80562163B0000
Post injection 3 (mg/str)
- send: 22167D
- received: 7E80562167D0000
Pressure before or after dpf
- send: 22162F
- received: 7E80562162F0033
Pressure before or after dpf
- send: 2216A9
- received: 7E8076216A900000D18
And now....
I really don't know how to put those commands in the Torque.
When OBD header field is empty all those commands give NO RESPONS.
When heder is set to auto some crazy sh*** happens.
For example:
send: 221ac0
response: 7F2278
621AC00000
Have no idee what kind respons is that. Torque does not recognize the A,B,C... byte so no equation can be made to have some reasonable output data.
I can also provide full init command set for the ELM327 made by VagDPF.
Any help would be appreciated.
THANK YOU Wacholek
today I used your method (Bluetooth HCI snoop log) on my 2013 GOLF 7 1.6 TDI CLHA engine and my PIDs:
Soot mass calculated:
- send: 22114F
- received: 7E8 05 62 11 4F 06 2B
- formula: ((F*256)+G)/100
- result :15.79gr
Oil ash residue (g)
- send: 22178C
- received: 7E8 05 62 17 8C 00 87
- formula: G/10
- result :13.5gr

note:I used formulas for arduino project I don't know about "Torque"
 
Last edited:

Wacholek

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2019
Location
Poland
TDI
Skoda Octavia 2.0 TDI DFFA

fkoca5055

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Location
Turkey
TDI
Golf 7 1.6tdi 77kw
@fkoca5055
Where did you get those requests? 22114F, 22178C.
I think I will also work with arduino. It has no limits compering to Torque. At least until I will talk to its creator.
Probably you already have the basic knowledge about the ELM327, but this is nice info for start:
https://glmsoftware.com/documentation/obdnowterminaluserguide.pdf
https://www.scantool.net/scantool/downloads/234/stn1100-frpm-preliminary.pdf
I think magic point is before sending requests use ATSH 7E0 for 11bit can network then use your stand or NON-stand PIDs
 
Last edited:

fkoca5055

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Location
Turkey
TDI
Golf 7 1.6tdi 77kw
dpf level

by the way I finished my project for Golf 7 1.6tdi (Soot mass calculated and DPF level added)
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
Very nice! Which program is that in?
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
I think magic point is before sending requests use ATSH 7E0 for 11bit can network then use your stand or NON-stand PIDs
Hi Fkoca! I'm not near my diesel right now. Are you saying that I could send this ATSH 7E0 command from inside Torque, and then access special VW variables? Or would one have to send the command outside of Torque?
 

fkoca5055

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Location
Turkey
TDI
Golf 7 1.6tdi 77kw
Hi Fkoca! I'm not near my diesel right now. Are you saying that I could send this ATSH 7E0 command from inside Torque, and then access special VW variables? Or would one have to send the command outside of Torque?
I didn't tried with Torque app, but it worked with ELM obd terminal
 

coolvdub

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Location
SoCal
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI/2013 JSW
Update 2018-2-15: after getting the emissions fix for my 2012 JSW TDI, the R49/R50 formula showed the same behavior that Mr.Beeblebrox above saw for his Passat, so I tried out his R40/R41 shift, and it works.

2013 JSW, I used the original formula and got an extraordinarily high reading, used the above referenced shift values and am getting closer to VCDS, but still off though.Torque is showing 23.9 grams soot while VCDS reports 6.9 grams soot and 18 ml oil ash. Looking for ideas if anybody has one.
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
I think there are computed and 'measured' (also computed, but differently) values, and switching from the r49/50 to the r40/41 location also switched methods, I'm guessing. If you have access to VCDS, you should be able to sort this out. Please let us know once you figured it all out.


Also, torque/OBD shows the max value for quite a while (70 miles?) after a regeneration; maybe VCDS is already showing the new value.
 
Last edited:

coolvdub

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Location
SoCal
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI/2013 JSW
Diesl,


Thanks for the response, I was hoping you would see this. The long delay may be correct as the last regen was 10Km ago or 6.214 miles according to Google. Checked with VCDS today and this is what I got.


Monday,23,March,2020,15:28:33:09433
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 19.6.2.2 (x64) HEX-NET CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20200210 DS308.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: License Plate:
Mileage: 20051 Repair Order:


Address 01: Engine (03L 997 030 E)

15:28:12
2.0 Requested Regenerations
18 ml Particle Filter Oil Ash Volume
Particle Filter Carbon Mass (spec.)
Particle Filter Carbon Mass (act.)
2.2 l Fuel Consumption Since last Regen
10 km Mileage Since last Regen
132.0 Time elapsed since Regeneration
18 ml Particle Filter Oil Ash Volume
7.8 Soot Load(g) Calculated
0.0 Soot Load(g) Measured


Not really driving now since I am on leave due to covid-19 until further notice. Otherwise I drive over 100 miles a day.
 

rosenhauer

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Location
Southern Illinois, USA
TDI
2005.5 Jetta TDI
I just had my Touareg in for timing chain noise diagnosis and they updated the software and not the Soot mass that I had been using in torque just shows "No Data" did they change the PID location again?
 

Diesl

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Location
Chicago
TDI
'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
There have been some great posts in the last few years!
Unfortunately I have not been very active; just this week I finally reloaded my csv file for the extended PIDs into Torque on my new phone.
I don't know whether hotpocketdeath's csv link is still around (the dropbox file in post #29 seems to be gone https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/reading-soot-level-with-torque.464119/post-5169670) ; here is my current (probably much shorter) file:
I included all the 06B2 data fields that I know about, even if I don't know what they mean (but Mucden's post should help with that?) in case somebody wants to look at them in test mode. I don't know what happened to the temperature units; I think they display correctly as '<degree symbol> C'.

I still have to try

Here's my Torque screen with the exhaust/DPF, turbo and fuel pump related info:
 
Last edited:

bigb

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Location
Arizona
TDI
2015 Sportwagon S
If I recall in TP you leave the general setting for units on C and the individual units on F or vice versa, this way TP converts properly to F. You cannot set both to F or it ends up converting back to C on your gauges.
edit: Just checked, in settings uncheck C and in each gauge leave it on C. The result will be gauges in F.
 
Last edited:

bigb

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Location
Arizona
TDI
2015 Sportwagon S
Here's my setup with the ones I felt were useful while driving. I have the DPF % set to flash starting at 98% and the REGEN STATUS to flash while active.


 

DriverJon

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2011
Location
Irvine, CA
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI, 6M
There have been some great posts in the last few years!
Unfortunately I have not been very active; just this week I finally reloaded my csv file for the extended PIDs into Torque on my new phone.
I don't know whether hotpocketdeath's csv link is still around (the dropbox file in post #29 seems to be gone https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/reading-soot-level-with-torque.464119/post-5169670) ; here is my current (probably much shorter) file:
I included all the 06B2 data fields that I know about, even if I don't know what they mean (but Mucden's post should help with that?) in case somebody wants to look at them in test mode. I don't know what happened to the temperature units; I think they display correctly as '<degree symbol> C'.

I still have to try
I still have hotpocket's csv someplace, found it a while back. Will dig it up if you want to compare... I also wanted to go thru them and fix up a few things... had it working on an older phone, lost it when I went to a new one. Got a set of extended PID's but not all are working right.

Also wanted to ask what people are getting, I've forgotten what normal was on some of these. Have a few wonders about my MPG seeming lower than I used to get, so I'm also trying to diagnose stuff as well.

For instance...
- not getting a good zero on boost measurement.
- how high are your EGT temps getting?
- seeing up to 6.5psi on exhaust pressure.
- seeing 2000psi on DPF pressure (!?!)
- MAF reads 6.5g/sec with engine stopped.
and others...
 

sportwagen3

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Location
MD
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI SE
Has anyone figured out how to get the DPF % when the car is in regen? The current PID stays at 100% until regen is over and then drops to around 23%.
 
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