Rawtek Stops Shipping DPF Delete Kits to US

Echo_Alpha

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Wife just pointed me at this today, since we were going to get a kit for her. I wish I'd just gotten it earlier and planned on hanging onto it. I'm guessing their kits came to the attention of someplace like California or Washington and there's been official action, so they're protecting their legal butts.

 

Echo_Alpha

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Looks like I'm way behind. Interesting that a few others are not announcing they've stopped shipping. I wonder if other manufacturers have also been targeted by EPA or Customs? I wish there were details, like, were people open about it being for on-road use, or did they simply blanket intercept anything dealing with removing the DPF?
 

Echo_Alpha

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Assume everything is business as usual, unless a specific vendor tells you otherwise. There's no need for everyone to spread FUD, especially if they're not even shopping for those parts.
I'm not trying to, I'm actually in the market so this is relevant. I have a query in with Darkside, so I'll relay that here when I hear back.

Otherwise, I'm trying to think of who else has kits. Buzzken I know of, I'm going to check with them as well.
 

turbodieseldyke

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I didn't mean to say you were spreading it, but the general panic has caused you & others to ask where to buy. Darkside was the first one directly affected by that one bad rumor.

If you search the Emissions forum, you'll probably find the names of all pipe vendors.
 

Echo_Alpha

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I didn't mean to say you were spreading it, but the general panic has caused you & others to ask where to buy. Darkside was the first one directly affected by that one bad rumor.

If you search the Emissions forum, you'll probably find the names of all pipe vendors.
Thanks!! I hadn't thought to look there!
 

Lightflyer1

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Every name mentioned will come under scrutiny soon, if not already. Past and present. Don't expect they will be able to for long.
 

Echo_Alpha

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Every name mentioned will come under scrutiny soon, if not already. Past and present. Don't expect they will be able to for long.
Yeah, I'm going to order as soon as I get a couple answers. Already regret waiting, but hadn't seen a reason to be concerned.
 

Shoveltrev

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So heres an abreviated version of how this all went down . In febuary of 2019 the epa and i think it was colorado planned to sue the Deisel Bros for violations of the clean air act . Namely deleting diesel trucks and putting it on TV. a federal judge ruled they must have a firm clarification or interpretation of the law to proceed . what they decided was any diesel vehicle or engine destined for the US market must retain the emissions equipment it was born with. what that means is you take a 6.7 cummins out of a dodge truck built after 2007 which all of them were into a boat or irrigation pump or a old motorhome or old pickup must retain its emissions effectively nulifying the OFF ROAD USE ONLY loophole. They won the lawsuit and have been working their way thru the suppliers of delete componants ever since . For years the Canadian gov wasnt interested in helping the EPA with enforcement so all the components and the majority of hardware and devices were available thru canada. Well thats changing and the supply of these components will slowly fade away.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Yep, gonna have to start making stuff bespoke locally.

The toughest part I guess is getting the proper part to work with the stupid V-band clamp on the turbo.

I don't honestly see how the EPA is going to be able to get that granular to police this down to every last person.
 

Lightflyer1

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They don't need to. All they have to do is set a good example and everything else will fall in order for the most part. There will always be one or two that will make their own parts and still get by.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Oh it'll be more than one or two, because 10k or 20k of these cars are going to the scrapper otherwise. $3k-5k repair bills are not sustainable to the owners, these aren't Range Rovers.

(and yes, we ALL know YOUR car has a warranty... you needn't remind us... most don't).
 

Lightflyer1

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I expect a fair number of these cars to go to the scrapper. People won't pay that to fix them and it's just cheaper almost to just buy another used car than it is to repair one of these unicorns. I personally wouldn't own one of these cars outside of the warranty. Maybe not even with it. You have to be up to speed on everything in order to own one of these, even then it can be challenging.
 

Lightflyer1

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Most won't be deleted though and a fair number won't be fixed. As you are a mechanic I would guess you would have no need for a warranty. But the average person now days won't do their own work and won't pay to have it repaired. Scrapped.
 

ZippyNH

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Years ago there was similar issues getting supercharger's out of South Africa to the USA for 2.4 and 2.7 Tacoma's.. Not to go to far in the weeds, but sanctions and a licensing agreement with Toyota TRD were to blame for years. Workaround was to have it "counter to counter" shipped, not cheap, but similar to international DHL shipping to an airport with international flights.
When there is a will there is a way. Canada and Mexico are simpler options with places that accept packages for a few $$ if the seller wants to use conventional shipping.
 

lemoncurd

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Yep, gonna have to start making stuff bespoke locally.

The toughest part I guess is getting the proper part to work with the stupid V-band clamp on the turbo.

I don't honestly see how the EPA is going to be able to get that granular to police this down to every last person.
and when they do begin to go after US based stuff more, if they get sued in court there is high liklihood it get's dismissed / thrown out.

due to the chevron def being overturned:

that sets a legal precident that if the EPA deviates from written and voted upon LAW in any way during penalty, it could be nullified. no more pulling "regulations" enforced as "laws" out of their metaphorical-exit-pipe
 

turbodieseldyke

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that sets a legal precident that if the EPA deviates from written and voted upon LAW in any way during penalty, it could be nullified. no more pulling "regulations" enforced as "laws" out of their metaphorical-exit-pipe
Congress probably passed a law forbidding removal of emissions parts, but there was never a law requiring a DPF or EGR to be installed at the factory.

For years the Canadian gov wasnt interested in helping the EPA with enforcement so all the components and the majority of hardware and devices were available thru canada. Well thats changing and the supply of these components will slowly fade away.
They don't need canuck cooperation. If XYZtek shipments get intercepted and returned, then XYZtek will make their own business decision to halt shipments because it's a big waste of time/effort for sales that don't reach completion.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
The law involves meeting a specific level of emissions, they don't necessarily dictate how. A DPF and EGR are just a couple of common ways to accomplish this. The on-road emissions levels have gotten to the point where a DPF is pretty much mandatory, in the same way a TWC is on a gasoline engine.

In the case of CR TDIs, and perhaps this extends to other modern diesels as well, the fragile nature and expense in maintaining some of these items becomes an unnecessary and unwanted burden of the vehicle owners. Which is why the pursuit of deleting said equipment even happens. Virtually nobody who owns a CR TDI would do this otherwise. Because if the stuff didn't fail, and didn't cause other things to fail, who in their right mind would mess with it? Of course, these cars were deemed "too dirty" by the EPA, so count me in the crowd of "who gives a ****?" anymore. Why struggle to maintain something that wasn't "clean" in their eyes anyway? Like I said, if the stuff was reliable and durable.... if....
 

Cuzoe

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When would we suppose that "regulations" enforced as "laws" are good? Clean water only? And if we suppose that someone is going to regulate, be it the EPA (or other agency) or judge, are we then left to suppose that the judge will become informed enough to make a decision that's good for most? :unsure:

Completely agreed regarding deletes though, I don't give a darn what equipment is installed so long as it works... if the equipment is reliable but expensive I'm good, if it's unreliable but cheap I'm good... unreliable and expensive sucks... anything and unavailable also sucks!
 

Echo_Alpha

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and when they do begin to go after US based stuff more, if they get sued in court there is high liklihood it get's dismissed / thrown out.

due to the chevron def being overturned:
Interesting, I hadn't considered that Chevron might have an effect on this. I haven't read the actual text of the law so I don't know how vague it was left, but having been written in a Chevron environment it might be fairly broad.
 

Echo_Alpha

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Doubtful, since the ruling doesn't apply to agency regulations retroactively.
From my understanding, if a new case is brought, that might be able to trigger a new round of fact finding where the deference would no longer apply. Prior, it was assumed that agencies had de facto expertise that required a high bar of proof or fact to overcome.

That's not to say it would happen with any suit in this area of emissions regulation, but the removal of Chevron definitely can apply to past decisions.
 
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Echo_Alpha

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Assume everything is business as usual, unless a specific vendor tells you otherwise. There's no need for everyone to spread FUD, especially if they're not even shopping for those parts.
This was the correct take. No issues for my shipment from Darkside, should have it in a couple days.
 

dieseldonato

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The recent case where chevron was struck down, means the courts can't take the alphabet agencies interpretation of the law as gospel. The epa makes some pretty broad interpretations of the the actual law, if and when they are taken to court the outcome should be quite clear. They don't have the statutory power to make up laws or bend then as they see fit. Only congress can make laws. They are an enforcement/oversight agency. Nothing more.
 

Cuzoe

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The EPA is however authorized by Congress to write and enforce regulations. I suppose we could argue we need a "law" for everything but that's not realistic. The Chevron reversal does make it so that people/corporations can take these regulations (or enforcement of them) to court... where a judge who very possibly knows (and I mean no disrespect, as it's not their area of expertise) f*** all about the regulation or its impact gets to make a decision :LOL:. But I do understand (not really, haha) that if alphabet agency (of choice) is enforcing something that's personally inconvenient it's called overreach.
 

gearheadgrrrl

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Be careful what you wish for... I'd much rather deal with an agency staffed with lawyers and experts in their field that takes public comment before rule making and is open to amendments than a bunch of politicians facing a deadline and political pressure who insert laws into giant spending bills and then vote on them without even reading the full bill because they're in a hurry to get out of Washington.
 
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