Ran over dead deer this am

[shoebear]

IDParts sells "service position" bolts (you can use any longer bolt that's the right size). They will allow you to hang the lock carrier/rad support, one side at a time, and then you can push it home and get bolts started. Replace the service position bolts with the originals, and you're done.

Good to know; I'll remember that for next time -- which I hope will be a very long time from now.

 

[shoebear]

Are you implying using no gasket and just sealer?

Yes. That's what the Bentley calls for.

 

[mjydrafter]

Just so you don't worry about the oil pan, my son's '03 left this trail for about 5 blocks home. Then dumped a big puddle on my concrete...

This was with a Panzer plate. (although the car was stupidly lowered). He's back to stock height (2 oil pans later).

I don't think the oil light came on. (It was just cracked though, no big holes).

 

[PakProtector]

Are you implying using no gasket and just sealer?

Exactly so.

Douglas

 

[pkhoury]

Fel-Pro sells an oil pan gasket. I advise you not to use it because it spaces the pan down a mm or two. This makes it very difficult to install the horizontal bolts from the transmission side, because the holes are now misaligned. It *is* possible, but you will have a very tough time.

I used Permatex Ultra Black and this wonderful device - https://www.amazon.com/Valco-Cincinnati-Tube-Grip-Dispensing-Sealant/dp/B007IQ539C
It makes getting RTV out a lot less painful and more precise. Yeah, I'd stay away from premade gaskets for the oil pan and just use RTV, but one like Ultra Black that's intended for contact with oil.

The whole thing took me a day. This is one reason I'm not a professional tech -- I'm sure @oilhammer could do it in an hour or two. I needed help only once -- fitting the condensor/radiator/fan assembly into the support. There is too much that has to be supported and assembled just so for me to do it alone. In that case, I had my wife and neighbor help -- one on either side of the radiator assembly, and me on the ground with the support.

Haha, I'm the same way. I try to cover everything, but I'm slow and don't deny it. I actually used a hydraulic jack to support my front end crap when I was putting the core support on the front of the car, but I didn't have extra bodies here. That's probably the hardest part of that job, really.

 

[shoebear]

I used Permatex Ultra Black and this wonderful device - https://www.amazon.com/Valco-Cincinnati-Tube-Grip-Dispensing-Sealant/dp/B007IQ539C
It makes getting RTV out a lot less painful and more precise. Yeah, I'd stay away from premade gaskets for the oil pan and just use RTV, but one like Ultra Black that's intended for contact with oil.

Ordered. Thanks for the tip!

 

[jmodge]

FYI, grey and orange are oil resistant, grey being vibration resistant as well

 

[pkhoury]

FYI, grey and orange are oil resistant, grey being vibration resistant as well

I don't know why I bought grey, but I installed that with Brian back in 2021, and I found A LOT of the gasket came off, and was in the oil pickup line. But I still use the excuse that I had a concussion around that time, given that we swapped transmissions (so I could put in my LSD) and I reused the old shift fork and throwout, because I'd forgot to buy new ones.

 

[jmodge]

I don't know why I bought grey, but I installed that with Brian back in 2021, and I found A LOT of the gasket came off, and was in the oil pickup line. But I still use the excuse that I had a concussion around that time, given that we swapped transmissions (so I could put in my LSD) and I reused the old shift fork and throwout, because I'd forgot to buy new ones.

That’s what I don’t like about silicone, it can end up plugging small oil passages if you’re not judicious about how you use it. But in some cases, TDI oil pans for one, there’s no better choice

 

[jmodge]

Speaking of sealants

VHT Wheel Paint High Temp Aluminum Aerosol 11 OZ SP181

Wheel Paint Aluminum Aerosol - 11 oz.

www.eastwood.com

This wasn’t called wheel paint back then, but it was an excellent gasket sealant. I used it on Harley engine gaskets (not head, exhaust, or intake). Spray it on, let it setup, and assemble. No leakage and gaskets could be reused.

 

[Nuje]

IDParts sells "service position" bolts (you can use any longer bolt that's the right size).

M8x1.25 thread size and pitch on those bolts, IIRC. Same size (different length obviously) as literally hundreds of other places on the car - with exceptions, typically, anything with a 13mm head on it will be that size.

 

[P2B]

IDParts sells "service position" bolts (you can use any longer bolt that's the right size). They will allow you to hang the lock carrier/rad support, one side at a time, and then you can push it home and get bolts started. Replace the service position bolts with the originals, and you're done.

M8x1.25 thread size and pitch on those bolts, IIRC. Same size (different length obviously) as literally hundreds of other places on the car - with exceptions, typically, anything with a 13mm head on it will be that size.

... and for us Canucks, Brafasco has 8" M8x1.25 bolts with 1" of thread which are perfect.

 

[J_dude]

@P2B, what’s Brafasco?

 

[P2B]

@P2B, what’s Brafasco?

https://brafasco.com/

 

[52172]

I used Permatex Ultra Black and this wonderful device - https://www.amazon.com/Valco-Cincinnati-Tube-Grip-Dispensing-Sealant/dp/B007IQ539C
It makes getting RTV out a lot less painful and more precise. Yeah, I'd stay away from premade gaskets for the oil pan and just use RTV, but one like Ultra Black that's intended for contact with oil.


Haha, I'm the same way. I try to cover everything, but I'm slow and don't deny it. I actually used a hydraulic jack to support my front end crap when I was putting the core support on the front of the car, but I didn't have extra bodies here. That's probably the hardest part of that job, really.

How many ultra blacks do I need is one enough or should I get 2? Thanks

 

[pkhoury]

How many ultra blacks do I need is one enough or should I get 2? Thanks

I barely used half a tube on my oil pan, so you should be good with one tube. Assuming you get that Valco Cincinnati tube grip, which helped me tremendously.

 

[52172]

10-4 thanks

 

[52172]

Estimate came in at 6000 but the body shop will let me source all my parts so I know I can shave 1000 off that easily. Looking for upgrades were replacing the subframe so I will upgrade the bushings. Does anyone know the diameter of my front swaybar? Will add poly bushings for the swaybar? Already have tt bushings in the rear on the control arms but will add new bushings to the front. Gonna upgrade the dogbone mount bushings. Need to know ft swaybar diameter to order correct poly bushings? Thanks

 

[csstevej]

Use a metric open end , use the open end and see if the 20MM or the 22 MM slides on the bar.

 

[52172]

 

[52172]

Gonna add poly subframe bushings too.

 

[pkhoury]

Estimate came in at 6000 but the body shop will let me source all my parts so I know I can shave 1000 off that easily. Looking for upgrades were replacing the subframe so I will upgrade the bushings. Does anyone know the diameter of my front swaybar? Will add poly bushings for the swaybar? Already have tt bushings in the rear on the control arms but will add new bushings to the front. Gonna upgrade the dogbone mount bushings. Need to know ft swaybar diameter to order correct poly bushings? Thanks

I've just done new subframe bushings, I think from either idparts or cascade german. The only poly I used was for my rear axle, which helped firm things up.

A new subframe is nice. Opted for one from Cascade German (he got it from a dealer, but since Oregon doesn't have tax, with shipping, I still saved over buying locally). I'd imagine shipping to you would be cheaper, since you're a lot closer to Portland than I am.

I didn't know the dogbone mount had replaceable bushings. I think it's only like $30 or so for a new dogbone, right?
While you're in there, you might want to replace your inner/outer tie rods, since you're probably going to need an alignment anyways. Maybe do ball joints too, since that's pretty easy.

 

[52172]

I did full front suspension refresh maybe 70k miles ago? Replaced all the tie rods so will prob just inspect.

 

[Franko6]

I barely used half a tube on my oil pan, so you should be good with one tube. Assuming you get that Valco Cincinnati tube grip, which helped me tremendously.

1/2 a TUBE!?! I hope you have some tiny tube I don't know about... and the oil pan gasket is a Chinese invention and completely unnecessary. An oil pan gasket was used on the steel oil pans, like the AHU.

But the ALH and later models are cast Aluminum. Here's the thing about that oil pan. It's milled surface against milled surface. Almost ALL of the RTV is going to come out of the sealing surface, either inside or outside. The objective isn't to have some giant bead of silicone pushed out, or worse, dripping where you don't need it to go. When I'm done, there is a tiny line of sealant you can see on the outside. Before installing pan, be sure the screws and the pan has all of the old sealant removed.

I would guess that I don't use more than 10-12 pea-sized dots of RTV to do the entire oil pan seal. I spread it thin and make sure some gets into the bevel in the oil pan's bolt holes. I use the Reinz Black or the Dirko Orange. Either product works fine.

The other 'virtual crime' for oil pans is how much you tighten the bolt. It's 10 ft lbs. After you get the sealant right, truthfully it's the sealant that holds the bolts in. They aren't going to fall out.

From 'Hints, Tips and Tricks'...

The best way I've found to install the bolts when under the vehicle, is to use a 5mm long reach ball-end allen. The tool can be found with a 3/8" drive and a 6" reach. (Removal is best done with a 10mm 1/4" drive socket and a 1/4" drive 6" wobble extension). This is very handy when installing the screws that are hard to get to between the bell housing and the end of the oil pan. Even more so, with the manual transmission flywheels. Even to the point, there is a radial slot in the transmission side of the dual-mass flywheel that we align with the oil pan screws in the rear main seal to create easier access.

The cool thing about the ball allen is the oil pan screws will stick onto the end of that ball and even if held horizontally, won't fall off. You can reach up into the bell housing area and get exactly the right angle and hand-install those 4 screws.

Apply the sealant to the oil pan, then support the pan by installing 4 screws where they can be easily mounted around the perimeter LOOSELY. Using the ball allen tool, install the bell housing screws. Then, install the remaining total of 20 screws. Don't tighten any screw until all of them are installed.

I don't use a torque wrench. By holding the ratchet head, after the screw is seated, I use the 10mm socket and give each bolt a little nudge; maybe an 1/8 of a turn, at most. I do use Makita tools, like an impact driver, but lightly. If I hear it hit once or twice, the screw is tight.

More RTV and more torque DO NOT make a better job.

 

[52172]

Thanks brother for the tips!

 

[pkhoury]

1/2 a TUBE!?! I hope you have some tiny tube I don't know about... and the oil pan gasket is a Chinese invention and completely unnecessary. An oil pan gasket was used on the steel oil pans, like the AHU.

But the ALH and later models are cast Aluminum. Here's the thing about that oil pan. It's milled surface against milled surface. Almost ALL of the RTV is going to come out of the sealing surface, either inside or outside. The objective isn't to have some giant bead of silicone pushed out, or worse, dripping where you don't need it to go. When I'm done, there is a tiny line of sealant you can see on the outside. Before installing pan, be sure the screws and the pan has all of the old sealant removed.

I would guess that I don't use more than 10-12 pea-sized dots of RTV to do the entire oil pan seal. I spread it thin and make sure some gets into the bevel in the oil pan's bolt holes. I use the Reinz Black or the Dirko Orange. Either product works fine.

The other 'virtual crime' for oil pans is how much you tighten the bolt. It's 10 ft lbs. After you get the sealant right, truthfully it's the sealant that holds the bolts in. They aren't going to fall out.

From 'Hints, Tips and Tricks'...

The best way I've found to install the bolts when under the vehicle, is to use a 5mm long reach ball-end allen. The tool can be found with a 3/8" drive and a 6" reach. (Removal is best done with a 10mm 1/4" drive socket and a 1/4" drive 6" wobble extension). This is very handy when installing the screws that are hard to get to between the bell housing and the end of the oil pan. Even more so, with the manual transmission flywheels. Even to the point, there is a radial slot in the transmission side of the dual-mass flywheel that we align with the oil pan screws in the rear main seal to create easier access.

The cool thing about the ball allen is the oil pan screws will stick onto the end of that ball and even if held horizontally, won't fall off. You can reach up into the bell housing area and get exactly the right angle and hand-install those 4 screws.

Apply the sealant to the oil pan, then support the pan by installing 4 screws where they can be easily mounted around the perimeter LOOSELY. Using the ball allen tool, install the bell housing screws. Then, install the remaining total of 20 screws. Don't tighten any screw until all of them are installed.

I don't use a torque wrench. By holding the ratchet head, after the screw is seated, I use the 10mm socket and give each bolt a little nudge; maybe an 1/8 of a turn, at most. I do use Makita tools, like an impact driver, but lightly. If I hear it hit once or twice, the screw is tight.

More RTV and more torque DO NOT make a better job.

I used a 1/4" socket both for removal, got them snug while the sealant cured, and then did 120 in-ft of torque (which should be 10ft lb) with the 1/4" torque wrench. I've only done two other oil pans before? Last one I did was under less than ideal conditions out of state, and the rear main seal bolt holes were stripped. I was NOT happy doing that job and putting it back with stripped holes, but that's what the other person wanted.

As for half a tube, I tried to get a line of RTV around the entire perimeter of the oil pan. I was only doing it the way Brian showed me how to do it before, but using proper RTV this time around.

I honestly forget to use my ballhead hex. I don't remember what size drive I have in my set, but I think I might have overlapping 1/4 and 3/8. But I pretty much did what you suggested - installed 4 bolts initially to get the pan hung up, then installed everything else, but not fully snug.

I'll have to pull the skid plate off again to double check everything, but so far, it looks to be okay and isn't leaking oil like it was before.

 

[Franko6]

All I can say is RTV is meant to be used, but for most people, 1/2 of the silicone never leaves the tube before it's cured. The best way to 'use all of a tube', don't use the cap that came with the tube. I use a variety of bolts that I tap into the end of the tube. This keeps all the air out of the product. I literally tap threads into the inside of the tube. The bolt might get a little curing at the threads, but the contents will last much longer.

I think there are places where a very exacting standard on thread torque is very important, like crank cap bolts, or the crankshaft front sprocket bolt, even the lug nuts for your tires. A decent feel with the smaller oil pan bolts, belly pan screws, etc. is all it really takes.

Stripped bolts... I do believe that so many times, the power tools come out and someone starts slamming little screws into their holes, the next guy will pay for it.

 

[KrashDH]

This keeps all the air out of the product

They make little condoms you can roll on the end of the cap. Airtight so never have to worry about the RTV curing. I think they were $6 on Amazon

 

[turbodieseldyke]

All I can say is RTV is meant to be used, but for most people, 1/2 of the silicone never leaves the tube before it's cured.

I get mine from the 99c store in 1oz tubes (like travel size toothpaste). I rarely ever use a whole tube at once, and still get the damn cure problem. The outlet hole is metal like the tube, so i should try plugging them with machine screws from now on.

 

[shoebear]

They make little condoms you can roll on the end of the cap. Airtight so never have to worry about the RTV curing. I think they were $6 on Amazon

Caulk Caps, MARFOREVER Caulking Tube Caps 20 Pack Caulk Tube Sealer Cap, Caulk Saver Cover Sealer for Sealing and Preserving Open Caulking Tube

https://www.amazon.com/MARFOREVER-Caulking-Sealer-Sealing-Preserving/dp/B0CG66HBZG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa

Good idea for caulk tubes with long smooth nozzles. If you left the application spout attached to an RTV tube and then used these, it would probably work short term, like if you were on a big project that required multiple application of RTV over a few days. But for long term storage, I don't think anything could beat Frank's suggestion of tapping the tube opening and installing a screw.