Ram 1500 diesel

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
I could live with an 8 speed auto. Then again I'm living with a 4 speed auto in my VW. I guess I'm prone to settle for less. I really hope they offer a vinyl floor , crank window, fleet style truck with the diesel, but hope in one hand and S$!t in the other.
With rising CAFE maybe there is hope.
 

Knarrly Viking

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Location
Washington
TDI
2015 Passat SE 6MT, 2 of them!
Yes. The driver might actually be (gasp) in control of their vehicle......
Exactly. All this talk about lugging an engine and therefore a manual gives off more emissions is laughable. Young inexperienced manual drivers may lug the engine for a brief moment, before the engine dies, but they quickly learn how to properly drive the vehicle and not have the vehicle drive them. I would bet a $1 that more manual transmission diesel drivers than not know how to take care of their engines and transmissions. Most automatic drivers could care less about the mechanics of their vehicles and therefore drive them hard and don't keep up on regular maintenance. Plus, in a manual, I have the option of coasting out of gear to significantly reduce the amount of fuel I'm using and therefore polute less than an automatic.

Also, all of the discussion here is for the American market. Mandate that vehicles have a have automatics in Europe or elsewhere in the world and see the disgruntled owners change the policy-makers minds.
 

scdevon

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
USA
TDI
None
I would bet a $1 that more manual transmission diesel drivers than not know how to take care of their engines and transmissions. .
Not only that, a failed automatic transmission is often the death of an older vehicle. An 8 speed ZF automatic transmission is NOT cheap to repair at 200,000 miles.

How many time do you read on this forum from a high mileage VW owner:

"zOMG...my Jetta has a failed slushbox automatic at 250k miles.....the rest of the car is perfect.....zOMG the dealer wants $XXXX to fix it.....I don't know if the car is worth it.....zOMG..I want a 6 speed manual swap....zOMG I shoulda bought a manual.....I wish I could talk my wife into a manual....."

Wait 'till the DSG boxes start failing. People have NO idea....
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
Exactly. All this talk about lugging an engine and therefore a manual gives off more emissions is laughable.
Not a laughing matter to the OEM's who have specific emissions and mpg requirements to meet. I have to wonder if some of the vehicles which are noted for shifting into too high of a gear too quickly, or hold a gear too long, if the OEM is trying to just eek past one or the other of the requirements. Every gram/mpg counts, when you are hugging a limit. [Not only that, but they have fleet averages to contend with too.]

Young inexperienced manual drivers may lug the engine for a brief moment, before the engine dies, but they quickly learn how to properly drive the vehicle and not have the vehicle drive them. I would bet a $1 that more manual transmission diesel drivers than not know how to take care of their engines and transmissions. Most automatic drivers could care less about the mechanics of their vehicles and therefore drive them hard and don't keep up on regular maintenance.
I drive stick harder than automatic. And I'm not particularly anal about maintance. If I had an auto I'd change the fluid rather often. And my wife, who isn't very gear savy at all, just goes by the schedule. Which more people are doing now, since dealerships are doing more to keep customers coming back to their service bays.

Plus, in a manual, I have the option of coasting out of gear to significantly reduce the amount of fuel I'm using and therefore polute less than an automatic.
You realize you're not burning fuel when you coast in gear, right?

Also, all of the discussion here is for the American market. Mandate that vehicles have a have automatics in Europe or elsewhere in the world and see the disgruntled owners change the policy-makers minds.
Last I knew of, Europe has a growing number of automatics. Congestion isn't going down, and Euro emissions standards are catching up.
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
Not only that, a failed automatic transmission is often the death of an older vehicle. An 8 speed ZF automatic transmission is NOT cheap to repair at 200,000 miles.

How many time do you read on this forum from a high mileage VW owner:

"zOMG...my Jetta has a failed slushbox automatic at 250k miles.....the rest of the car is perfect.....zOMG the dealer wants $XXXX to fix it.....I don't know if the car is worth it.....zOMG..I want a 6 speed manual swap....zOMG I shoulda bought a manual.....I wish I could talk my wife into a manual....."

Wait 'till the DSG boxes start failing. People have NO idea....
Yep. Most don't stop to think about how much cheaper it is to do one or two "large" repairs vs a new vehicle. Most people aren't looking that far down the road, I'm afraid.
 

Knarrly Viking

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Location
Washington
TDI
2015 Passat SE 6MT, 2 of them!
You realize you're not burning fuel when you coast in gear, right?
Yes, I do realize this. It's called engine braking, and I do that every time I'm intending to slow the car down when coming to a stop light. The idea with coasting (out of gear) is to travel as many miles while not trying to slow down the vehicle.

Back to the orginal subject, I'll be interested in testing the Ram against the Nissan, if it ever happens. From what I've heard, the Cummins engine is pretty reliable. I don't know about the engine for the Ram.
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
Not only that, a failed automatic transmission is often the death of an older vehicle. An 8 speed ZF automatic transmission is NOT cheap to repair at 200,000 miles.
Like almost every other vehicle out there, won't these units be available used from salvage yards?

How many time do you read on this forum from a high mileage VW owner:
"zOMG...my Jetta has a failed slushbox automatic at 250k miles.....the rest of the car is perfect.....zOMG the dealer wants $XXXX to fix it.....I don't know if the car is worth it.....
That's up to them to figure it out. If they can't do the math and see a $3,000 transmission swap as a better deal than a $15,000 replacement car, that's their problem.
 

kiwibru

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 1999
Location
Distant island in WA. state
TDI
Golf 2-door, 2k Silver. Red RTDI now gone but not forgotten!
From what I've heard, the Cummins engine is pretty reliable. I don't know about the engine for the Ram.
The VM Motori engines are very well made. They were a division of Detroit Diesel back in the 1990's. Their diesel engines were popular in the Italian built tractors of the same years, Antonio Carraro, Ferrari, Goldoni, BCS. I have one in my tractor circa 1998 and it is still tight, burns no oil and keeps working with over 1000 hours. (Synthetic oil of course!)
The engineering reports I have read on the V6 VM Motori are very positive.
I think it is going to be a good combo.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
You realize you're not burning fuel when you coast in gear, right?
But over a given distance on level ground, you'll go further on a given amount of fuel by coasting out of gear and idling, than you will when coasting in gear.

The NMS Passat TDIs with DSGs (as well as the 991 and 981 Porsche PDK-equipped cars) actually do "sailing", which is automatically disengaging whatever clutch is selected when coasting. They apparently set the idle to match what it'd be if the clutch were engaged, to reduce harshness and lag when the driver touches the accelerator, but they still do it.
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
The quote was "I'm not polluting", not "I'm saving fuel". Although, it could be the same: I try hard to coast in gear to stops, I figure, less brake usage must mean less wasted fuel, as I got off the throttle before then--and less fuel burnt is less pollution.

Why would you coast on "level" ground out of gear? [Rhetorical question in these parts--not a single bit of New England seems "level". Including my house.] Sounds more like pulse and glide to me. Interesting that they idle up for sailing; probably negligible extra fuel burn as compared to idling, and all the smoother for engagement.
 

supton

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 25, 2004
Location
Central NH (USA)
TDI
'04 Jetta Wagon GLS
Like almost every other vehicle out there, won't these units be available used from salvage yards?
Assuming the ones in the junkyard aren't there because their grenade status. The notorious 4 speed Caravan transmission--would you buy one from a junkyard? [Then again, IIRC those have gotten really cheap rebuilt, due to high demand.]

That's up to them to figure it out. If they can't do the math and see a $3,000 transmission swap as a better deal than a $15,000 replacement car, that's their problem.
To be fair, most look at the tranny going as a harbinger. What will be next? It just happens that most don't look past that and realize most everything else that will fail is likely cheaper.

Although, now that I think about it, why is it "acceptable" for slushboxes to fail? Seems like it's the one high-dollar item that can be counted on failing at some point, if the vehicle is used heavily--or perhaps not. Tell someone that your tranny is going out at 200k, or even 150k, and they don't blink an eye. Tell 'em your rear end is going, or the motor, at 200k though and "it's a lousy vehicle".
 

03_01_TDI

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
Location
Denmark
TDI
Na
The new jetta hybrid will automatically clutch the dsg 7 speed transmission and then shut off when slowing down, provided the battery is fully charged.
 

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
With American makes the sticker price is typically way higher then what you actually pay. I remember my father buying a 1/2 ton GMC that was sticker-ed at ~$34K yet he paid ~$27K. I've never seen that happen on Euro or Asian makes.
That's only about 20% off. Not at all unusual in the European market. I don't think a single Euro-market Chevy sells with less than 25% off... The "premium" brands usually have 15-20% off. The new Ford Ranger can be had for 35% under MSRP. Transit will be replaced soon -> 40% off.

A good indication is to look on a new car broker website (which orders their cars at dealers and adds a bit of their own revenue) - You can typically get a bit better price at a dealer if you negotiate good.
For example autohaus24.de:


14,990€*is the base MSRP of a German-market Cruze, depending on type of buyer and exact model AH24 can get you a Cruze at between 29.7 and 27.2% below MSRP, so a Cruze can be had for 11,430€ (including 19% VAT, so pre-tax price would be 9605€, about 12,256 USD)


3-series has lower discounts at the moment (still new and a hot seller), but you'll get more than 10% off in any case.
I clicked through to see what the actual rebate would be if I ordered a 320d wagon Sport Line with manual transmission:



About 17% below MSRP.
 

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
Exactly. All this talk about lugging an engine and therefore a manual gives off more emissions is laughable.
And certification is not about emissions in the hand of actual drivers, it's JUST about running a pre-defined test cycle in lab conditions. Which is known, so automatic transmissions can be optimized to deliver optimal fuel economy in the test cycle.
In the real world, the driver can be expected to know what gear to be in in any given situation better than any transmission ECU.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
04', 05', 06' TDI's. Audi SQ5, RAM Rebel
With American makes the sticker price is typically way higher then what you actually pay. I remember my father buying a 1/2 ton GMC that was sticker-ed at ~$34K yet he paid ~$27K. I've never seen that happen on Euro or Asian makes.

I'm betting the diesel engine option will come with 4-doors and a hole bunch of other crap that doesn't belong on a pickup to
My 2012 I just bought was $39K MSRP was $54.9! :eek: Frankly, the options DO belong on them for the $$ you are paying. If it's your only vehicle I'd GLADLY pay a few grand more for a passenger car quality interior.

For that money I could justify a real truck. A HD truck that gets as good if not better mileage than a V8 gas and car do far more that any 1500. I pulled 4K lbs through the Rockies in April at 70 mph and got 18 at altitude and 15-16 at 75-80 in the plains.

The new trucks are a far cry frow the ones just 5 years ago. Mine is quieter than my wife's E46 BMW.

FWIW GMC Denali 2500HD duramax trucks start in the mid $50K region and option out about $78K!!!!!:eek: There are a few of them in the Chicago region for sale.
 

T100TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2012
Location
Des Moines, IA
TDI
2012 Jetta TDI 6MT
After driving several trucks while on business to South America. I so wish we could get the small pickups with diesel. The Toyota Hilux with a five speed would be so practical for what I need. Too bad we can't get them in the states. Hopefully the 1500 and other diesel offerings sell well so we can get more options in the US.
 

Oberkanone

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 16, 2001
Location
NW Indiana
TDI
13 Jetta TDI Premium manual "gone"
$2,850 for a 3.0L diesel

Quote Chrysler-
The 3.0-liter V-6 EcoDiesel with eight-speed automatic transmission is priced $2,850 higher than a similarly equipped Ram 1500 with a 5.7-liter Hemi V-8 with eight-speed transmission.
 

kjclow

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Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I'm glad to see that they are offering the Diesel engine across the full line instead of just putting it in the top model.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
here's the link to their website http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/ecodiesel/

says " Available late 2013 on Trademan, SLT, Outdoorsman, Big Horn, Laramie, and Laramie Longhorn" I take that to mean across the line. Might be a larger $ upgrade on the lower equiped models but still has my mind turning. I've already dropped the hint that maybe we could get rid of the Canyon for a full sized truck that gets better mileage.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, see ya gotta hover on that darned asterisk.... "exludes short bed and regular cab models".... which means, no, you cannot get the diesel in a base model "work" truck. You can just get it in the crew cab with the tiny little useless bed. Sorry, but if I want a full sized truck, I want a full sized bed, thanks. And I already have several 4dr cars, no need for a back seat, either.

So once again, they've excluded some of the possible market. :rolleyes:
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
I just hovered over that asterisk, and the word "and" in your quote is not there. The exclusion is for "short bed regular cab" models. In other words, long bed regular cab is available, quad cab (not crew cab) short bed is available. That's pretty much the minimum that anyone really buys anyhow.

I gave up on their "build and price" system ... but I got far enough into it to see that extended box is only $385 more than short box.
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I'd opt for the regular cab long bed. Even the quad cab is more cab than I need anymore.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
I'm not seeing where they call a 6'4" bed a long bed, but the combos available:

Regular cab 6'4"
Regular cab 8'
Quad cab 6'4"
Crew cab 6'4"
Crew cab 5'7"

That implies that 6'4" is a short bed.

(Also, looks like if you want an 8' bed and a back seat, you've gotta move up to a 2500. And, you can't get a quad cab, just a crew cab, if you do that.)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
GoFaster, thanks for that clarification.

So, then, can we hope to get a regular cab, long bed pickup with a black grill, no chrome, no power anything, stamped steel wheels painted silver, in 2WD? I understand the slushbox is manditory now (no matter what engine on the 1500) so no choice there.

We'll see. Still gonna be an expensive truck no matter what. I have to pinch myself when I think what I paid for my F150 in '93: $13,100 :eek:
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
The Tradesman doesn't even come with cloth seats or carpet standard - those are part of the Popular Equipment Group (which, the online configurator doesn't allow you to remove, but it is an option). And, the only power thing is the steering. Standard AC, though. The optioning is kinda weird - it's obvious they were cutting costs in some places, but left other things in because it was more expensive to create new parts.
 
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