APT
Veteran Member
If Ram uses the SAE spec for towing, the diesel might be rated the lowest as it has the least amount of horsepower. But I bet it tows the best in the real world within its ratings.
Ram 1500 diesel
- Thread starter tlhfirelion
- Start date
With American makes the sticker price is typically way higher then what you actually pay. I remember my father buying a 1/2 ton GMC that was sticker-ed at ~$34K yet he paid ~$27K. I've never seen that happen on Euro or Asian makes.
I'm betting the diesel engine option will come with 4-doors and a hole bunch of other crap that doesn't belong on a pickup to
While towing capacity may not change from the Hemi (since it is the same for the Grand Cherokee Hemi and CRD), the transmission is technically not the same. There are two versions of the TorqueFlight 8, the low-torque 8HP45/845RE (Pentastar 3.6L V6 only) and the high-torque 8HP70/870RE (Hemi and 3.0CRD). It potentially could change though since the Grand Cherokee does not have the same body-on-frame construction of the Ram.
Knarrly Viking
Veteran Member
I fear I will be waiting a while for them to marry up the Ram 1500 Diesel with a proper manual transmission.
Oberkanone
Top Post Dawg
Automatic
Here are some numbers from the Jeep using this engine.
You will wait, it's automatic only. Perhaps a manual with two or three fewer gears and worse mpg will be offered in the future.
Here are some numbers from the Jeep using this engine.
Ram weighs about 350 lbs more than Grand Cherokee so I'm hoping for EPA mpg for 4WD Ram diesel to be minimum 18 city and 26 highway which would give real world (for me) of at least 20 city and 30 highway if not more. Towing should be at least 7,000 lbs IMHO.
MrMopar
Top Post Dawg
I will wager my $1 that you will NEVER get that option. Manual transmissions in full-size pickups are almost gone and tighter emissions controls means that they will disappear soon.
*edit*
Ford no longer has a manual-trans option for their Super Duty pickups (both gasoline and diesel)
Chevy no longer has a manual-trans option for their Silverado HD pickups (both gasoline and diesel)
I guess that leaves Ram as the lone holdout. Maybe they can still get some sales from the die-hard "I have to have a manual transmission" buyers, but I'm betting that within the next couple years their 6-speed manual will be gone.
Last edited:
SxS16ga
Veteran Member
I think think Dodge screwed up back when the Cummins 5.9l was the Diesel for Dodge trucks. The Cummins 3.9l 4 cyl is a 4 cyl version of the old 5.9l which would of been an easy drop in for Dogde in their half ton models as it has the same engine mounts and bell housing as the 5.9l which would of made it easy to offer. There a number of 1/2 ton pickup conversions out their with the 3.9l and avg MPG is about 28mpg. Not speed demon but would have been nice for a reasonable piece of the market. Dodge would have been 20 years a head of the curve, but US makers are not visionaries.
Oh yeah I own a 1994 Blazer/Tahoe with 6.5L TD only about 2600 Diesels where made in that body style from 1994-1999 so they are Rare like B-4 wagons.
Oh yeah I own a 1994 Blazer/Tahoe with 6.5L TD only about 2600 Diesels where made in that body style from 1994-1999 so they are Rare like B-4 wagons.
Last edited:
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
And the B3.9 is still a really, really heavy engine, with huge cylinders (I mean, it's almost a LITER per cylinder!), and worse, it doesn't have balance shafts.
Which means they'd have to resort to expensive engine and body mounts to try to quell the vibrations, which would cause plenty of problems of their own. Otherwise, NVH would be nowhere near acceptable.
Which means they'd have to resort to expensive engine and body mounts to try to quell the vibrations, which would cause plenty of problems of their own. Otherwise, NVH would be nowhere near acceptable.
Zlartibartfast
Veteran Member
think it'll blow?
My '07 MB 3.0L has never recorded over 24,000 PSI on the fuel rail since I've owned it. It's max rating is 26K. The VM 3.0L is rated for 29K PSI - same as my '09 TDI
which went kaboom
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
VW's troubles with the CP4 are known in the industry. I think it's pretty safe to say "make sure this doesn't happen to us" is in the design brief and "what are you going to do IF this happens to us" is in the purchasing contract.
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
Get a MECHANICAL BREAKDOWN Policy, and learn how to install it yourself by the time you hit 100,000 miles.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Way to completely misread GoFaster's post.
"Us" in this context is Chrysler/VM Motori/Fiat. Not the owners. As in, when selecting the CP4 as the pump for that engine, they would've seen the catastrophe that was the VW HPFP fiasco, and gotten Bosch to provide some sort of guarantee to Fiat in case it happens to them.
"Us" in this context is Chrysler/VM Motori/Fiat. Not the owners. As in, when selecting the CP4 as the pump for that engine, they would've seen the catastrophe that was the VW HPFP fiasco, and gotten Bosch to provide some sort of guarantee to Fiat in case it happens to them.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Although, I would like that same gaurantee if I were to purchase the new Ram or Jeep diesels. Heck, I'd like VW to at least publically acknoweldge that there have had issues with the HPFP.
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
one can dream can't they?
TDI2000Zim
Veteran Member
Come on, it is their livelihood which is at stake.
If you dream for VW to do themselves in for the HPFP, you'd be better off getting rid of your VW TDi.
Knarrly Viking
Veteran Member
I'm not sure why emissions has anything to do with manual versus automatic. Manuals get better mileage, therefore should have less emissions than automatics.
There are so many automatics in this country because several decades ago car manufactures figured out they could get more profit out of selling automatics to Americans who are more concerned about having luxury in their cars than how much their car payment and fuel bill are. Automatics are stupid to be in a work vehicle designed to tow heavy loads. How many tractor trailer trucks out there are automatics? You have to have a transmission fluid cooler on an automatic! Wasted energy.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I can dream of Beyonce coming home with me, but then I have to wake up too!
Oberkanone
Top Post Dawg
Automatically
Passat TDI is an exception, not the rule.
Ram 1500 has an EIGHT speed automatic. I have yet to see an 8 speed manual on a light duty pickup truck. Ram 1500 diesel mpg I would not expect to suffer due to the automatic.
More often than not, automatics are rated higer mpg by EPA than manuals.
Passat TDI is an exception, not the rule.
Ram 1500 has an EIGHT speed automatic. I have yet to see an 8 speed manual on a light duty pickup truck. Ram 1500 diesel mpg I would not expect to suffer due to the automatic.
supton
Top Post Dawg
There is an increasing amount of automatics in big rigs, last I knew. I believe they are using an electronically controlled clutch, not a torque convertor; and electronically changing the gears.
If the throttle valve closes quickly, airflow through the engine changes dramatically. This is why driving late model (well, anything made in the last couple of decades) has been annoying: the engine rev's up when you hit the clutch. I believe they are trying to slowly close the throttle valve, for some reduction in some pollutant.
Also, an automatic *shouldn't* lug the engine any more than necessary. Someone with a manual though can lug it heavily (and get whatever emissions come out). Also, they can program the transmission to get into top gear as soon as possible, so as to game the EPA system.
Finally, it's easier to get an automatic to live to the other side of the warrenty. No missed shifts, no riding the clutch.
If the throttle valve closes quickly, airflow through the engine changes dramatically. This is why driving late model (well, anything made in the last couple of decades) has been annoying: the engine rev's up when you hit the clutch. I believe they are trying to slowly close the throttle valve, for some reduction in some pollutant.
Also, an automatic *shouldn't* lug the engine any more than necessary. Someone with a manual though can lug it heavily (and get whatever emissions come out). Also, they can program the transmission to get into top gear as soon as possible, so as to game the EPA system.
Finally, it's easier to get an automatic to live to the other side of the warrenty. No missed shifts, no riding the clutch.
Transient events which include shifting gears are a primary emissions challenge for diesel engine certification. The automatic transmission significantly reduces or eliminates the emissions spike when shifting gears thereby making certification easier to achieve.
MrMopar
Top Post Dawg
There is so much computer control over things in engines that all the Engine Control Unit stuff is interfaced with the Transmission Control Unit on modern, computer controlled transmissions. It's a total Powertrain Control Unit that controls everything from throttle butterfly opening (in diesel engines that feature a throttle, for tumbling action and air mixing), injection timing, fuel injection quantity, valve timing, shift timing, etc.
With a manual transmission there is no computer control over what gear the user selects. There is the possibility that the driver could lug the engine low in the operating speed range where emissions are higher than would be with proper gear selection, or rev the engine higher than necessary. All this could mean higher emissions than a PCU could attain if it has the ability to lock the user out of certain operating conditions.
Want to chug that 20,000 pound load along at 30mph? Not in 6th gear you won't if the PCU has it's way!
You will simply find manual transmissions disappearing from diesel engines for this reason: the manufacturer gets to determine emissions and stop manual transmission drivers from potentially polluting more when they drive "the wrong way."
compu_85
Gadget Guy
Yes. The driver might actually be (gasp) in control of their vehicle......
pleopard
Veteran Member
Fuel system pressure on 2009 and later TDIs (CBEA and CJAA) is 1800 bar, which is just over 26,000psi, not 29,000.
kiwibru
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 1999
- Location
- Distant island in WA. state
- TDI
- Golf 2-door, 2k Silver. Red RTDI now gone but not forgotten!
From the farming perspective I would rather have my tractor running bales with an automatic. Do you know how many clutch disengage / engage cycles each bale takes?
My wrist and knees feel it for weeks after doing a field that produces 300 round bales.
I guess the whole reason for this comment is I really believe there are situations where having that automatic may be an advantage. And really, the only way we would ever know if there was a mileage diff is if we could compare the manual to automatic in a real world situation. I would rather have a manual, call me old school, in a farm truck but if they aren't going to offer one I will spring for double the mileage I could get in the farm truck.
My wrist and knees feel it for weeks after doing a field that produces 300 round bales.
I guess the whole reason for this comment is I really believe there are situations where having that automatic may be an advantage. And really, the only way we would ever know if there was a mileage diff is if we could compare the manual to automatic in a real world situation. I would rather have a manual, call me old school, in a farm truck but if they aren't going to offer one I will spring for double the mileage I could get in the farm truck.
MrMopar
Top Post Dawg
Right, but the government is in control of allowable emissions limits. So the manufacturers have a choice to meet those limits . . . or not sell vehicles.
If manufacturers cannot meet those limits with a manual transmission, that means that option goes away thanks to government regulations.
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
It's going to be matched to the ZF 8-speed automatic. Everything I've heard about that transmission so far has been good.
01greenjetta
Veteran Member
I could live with an 8 speed auto. Then again I'm living with a 4 speed auto in my VW. I guess I'm prone to settle for less. I really hope they offer a vinyl floor , crank window, fleet style truck with the diesel, but hope in one hand and S$!t in the other.