Ram 1500 diesel pickup sells out

[Oberkanone]

420 lb ft of torque

Ya and the ecodiesels sae tow rating will probably be even lower

420 lb ft of torque
8 spd TorqueFlite

Tow rating may increase. 2015 is the year manufacturers agreed to follow J2807 so we'll see next year.

 

[grohgreg]

Ecodiesel is offered on Tradesman, 2WD, regular cab, 8" bed. 9,300 lbs towing. 1,583 lbs payload.
Your dealer is lacking in product information and is spewing misinformation.

After viewing the website, I have to agree. But no diesel for the Tradesman 2wd short bed. And I'm struggling with the fact that they want $2350 more for the Tradesman 3.0l diesel engine/transmission combo than they do for the Tradesman 5.7l gasoline transmission combo.

Back to my comparison, my Cayenne 3.0l V6 Diesel base price is a full $10k lower than the base Cayenne 4.8l V8 gasoline. I know they're completely different manufacturers, but clearly Dodge has taken a different pricing approach to diesel than does Porsche.

//greg//

 

[thebigarniedog]

So if I put my 7k horse trailer on it with 10% hitch weight I'm over weight as soon as I get in it to drive it!

Must be a helluv a bumper pull horse trailer .....my eclipse 2 horse extended bumper pull trailer with dressing room area is slightly less than 3300 pounds empty (those are the factory specs on their website). Figure less than 700 pounds of stuff (saddles and other misc crap) and typically one horse --- although we have had both of them in there) and you are between 5-6000 pounds max. My 2011 F150 has no difficulties at all with this.

Ram does not have the "extended cab" they have a "quad cab" instead. It must be a Chrysler thing. I just ran a 4x4 tradesman 1500 quad with diesel for $36000 on their site ..... which is not out of line with what pickups go for new with 4x4 and more then reg cab. The bed capacity is light for their model (my F150, which is the new design --- post 2009, is north of 1500). Ford just builds better vehicles and better trucks than Chrysler.

To the I only buy used trucks poster ...... good friggin luck trying to buy a used 4x4 more then regular cab truck in my area. Every such truck in the Ohio area has over 100,000 miles and they still want big dollars for them. You would be shocked what they go for, this is not the car market.

To the SUV guy ...... size of the vehicle in comparison to the trailer matters. It is not just raw towing numbers.

 

[grohgreg]

To the SUV guy ...... size of the vehicle in comparison to the trailer matters. It is not just raw towing numbers.

Not sure I understand this comment, elaborate please. After buying my Cayenne Diesel, I sold my Chevy pickup because of the fact that I own 4 trailers:
1. gross capacity 1125
2. gross capacity 2000
3. gross capacity 3500
4. gross capacity 7500
In #4 (a 16' tandem) I can tow up to the vehicle-rated 7700# gross, while simultaneously carrying up to a 1488# payload - which includes tongue weight - and still get ~20mpg. I know, I've done it several times. As far as size, the 191" long Cayenne Diesel weighs ~5200# (with driver and a full tank of fuel). And oh, yeah - I can seat five, the Tradesman seats what? Two? Three? Seems a reasonable comparison to me.

//greg//

 

[thebigarniedog]

Not sure I understand this comment, elaborate please. After buying my Cayenne Diesel, I sold my Chevy pickup because of the fact that I own 4 trailers:
1. gross capacity 1125
2. gross capacity 2000
3. gross capacity 3500
4. gross capacity 7500
In #4 (a 16' tandem) I can tow up to the vehicle-rated 7700# gross, while simultaneously carrying up to a 1488# payload - which includes tongue weight - and still get ~20mpg. I know, I've done it several times. As far as size, the 191" long Cayenne Diesel weighs ~5200# (with driver and a full tank of fuel). And oh, yeah - I can seat five, the Tradesman seats what? Two? Three? Seems a reasonable comparison to me.

//greg//

My F150 seats 6 .........

 

[supton]

420 lb ft of torque
8 spd TorqueFlite

Tow rating may increase. 2015 is the year manufacturers agreed to follow J2807 so we'll see next year.

Tq is nice but hp gets the job done. Those tests include acceleration and grade climbs IIRC; off-line torque is nice but after the first 30 feet the transmission will let the engine rev to wherever it needs to be.

 

[grohgreg]

My F150 seats 6 .........

Apples and oranges. We were talking about the base Ram 1500 Tradesman; two doors, one bench, three occupants.

Tq is nice but hp gets the job done.

Pretty sure you've got that backwards.

//greg//

 

[supton]

hp is how fast you get work done, torque is applied force.

If I bolt a 10' long 2x4 to the end of my porch, and hang off the end, I can apply (ahem) 1,500lb-ft of torque to those bolts. If I bounce up and down I bet I can hit upwards of 6,000lb-ft of force.

But until something shears I'll have accomplished nothing.

When people say tq they often simply mean "low end horsepower".

 

[kydsid]

Apples and oranges. We were talking about the base Ram 1500 Tradesman; two doors, one bench, three occupants.

Or nine if you're a redneck

 

[Dirtracr95]

Not sure I understand this comment, elaborate please. After buying my Cayenne Diesel, I sold my Chevy pickup because of the fact that I own 4 trailers:
1. gross capacity 1125
2. gross capacity 2000
3. gross capacity 3500
4. gross capacity 7500
In #4 (a 16' tandem) I can tow up to the vehicle-rated 7700# gross, while simultaneously carrying up to a 1488# payload - which includes tongue weight - and still get ~20mpg. I know, I've done it several times. As far as size, the 191" long Cayenne Diesel weighs ~5200# (with driver and a full tank of fuel). And oh, yeah - I can seat five, the Tradesman seats what? Two? Three? Seems a reasonable comparison to me.

//greg//

191" ? You may want to invest in a tape measure. And if thats overall length it means nothing. Wheelbase is important to towing. Some people here take tow ratings way too seriously. My 2002 F150 RCSB V6 5 speed is technically only rated for 2000lbs towing. It has handled 4000lbs just fine. And got 21mpg towing that 4000lbs at 55mph.

 

[kydsid]

Some people here take tow ratings way too seriously. My 2002 F150 RCSB V6 5 speed is technically only rated for 2000lbs towing. It has handled 4000lbs just fine. And got 21mpg towing that 4000lbs at 55mph.

Yes tow ratings may be taken too seriously. But on the other hand you aren't taking them seriously enough especially if you are using as proof a 2002 F150 with manual trans and/or 3.08 gears when its pretty well known that Ford purposefully hamstrung those trucks with a low rating.


Like everything towing isn't black and white. It isn't just is this within my tow rating?

 

[03_01_TDI]

Tow rating is a number that includes every possibility from level smooth roads to a long steeper grade incline and decline. The frame may could handle much more but the transmission could be the weak point.

I've put a ton of top soil in the bed of my 1/2 dodge truck. Front wheels wanted to lift off the ground. But I only drove a few miles on level roads at 35mph. Doesn't mean I could try that on the interstate!

I would much rather have more tow rating than I needed.

 

[kjclow]

Ecodiesel is offered on Tradesman, 2WD, regular cab, 8" bed. 9,300 lbs towing. 1,583 lbs payload.
Your dealer is lacking in product information and is spewing misinformation.

This is more than I'll ever need but at 28 mpg EPA highway rating, it looks interesting. Surprised that I haven't seen the "EPA rates diesels too low" comment yet. I guess I get to start that one.

 

[BadMonKey]

To the I only buy used trucks poster ...... good friggin luck trying to buy a used 4x4 more then regular cab truck in my area. Every such truck in the Ohio area has over 100,000 miles and they still want big dollars for them. You would be shocked what they go for, this is not the car market.

Not here; used 1/2 tons are a dime-a-dozen used. Even if I lived Ohio I'd fly out to buy used cars/trucks to avoid the rust.

 

[BadMonKey]

This is more than I'll ever need but at 28 mpg EPA highway rating, it looks interesting. Surprised that I haven't seen the "EPA rates diesels too low" comment yet. I guess I get to start that one.

I had the displeasure of renting a Lancia Thema (crapler 300 here) with the same 3.0L diesel and averaged 26mpg for the tank. I cant imagine a giant wind break like the dodge 1/2 ton is going to improve that number any. According to the computer I was getting 28-31mpg on low speed straight runs. In most Countries the VM Motori engines are typically the base engine and here they want $2,900 extra for it

Even the smaller & lighter Hilux with a diesel has a combined mpg of 26-28 which isn't bad and about the 30% increase i would expect with a diesel. I've never driven the 2WD Hilux so it might due a lot better not dragging the extra weight.

 

[03_01_TDI]

^ factor in that the dodge uses a 8 speed transmission.

 

[grohgreg]

191" ? You may want to invest in a tape measure. .

Why? That's the overall length of the 958 Cayenne. Well, actually 190.7868". I rounded up.

Since you seemed uninformed of even basic Cayenne specs, I used length and weight to give you an idea of what size towing vehicle it is. Wheelbase doesn't mean squat to me except when maneuvering a trailer in reverse. Unquestionably, longer is better. Since I spend most of my time going forward, tow vehicle weight is much more important than wheelbase. Heavier is better, so the tail doesn't end up wagging the dog.

//greg//

 

[03_01_TDI]

Looked at the new dodge diesel at the Atl car expo. I hate the engine badge. The engine bay and engine also just fails the looks test. That said, I would be tempted if they offered a 2dr sport r/t version.

 

[03_01_TDI]

The diesel won't be offered on Sport models or the two-wheel-drive, regular cab, short-bed Tradesman. The ancillaries for the engine were designed with the long-wheelbase 1500 in mind, making the short wheelbase packaging too compact.

 

[2011tdiproject]

Seems like you guys have a lot of other thoughts, but what about the idea of towing with just 3 liters? To me that is just too small of a motor. To put that in perspective, the E320cdi has a 3.2 straight six, the BMW 335 has a straight 3.0, etc, those are cars. Is that little VM motori diesel really that tough? To be under that high of a cylinder pressure and EGT continuously for thousands of miles...? And how's that going to stack up against the 5.0 cummins that's supposed to be coming in the new Titan? Unless that motor is really overbuilt, I'd choose the 5.0 cummins over it, but I'd be curious to see the size of the crank journals, rods, rod bearings, etc, between those various motors.

 

[donDavide]

Seems like you guys have a lot of other thoughts, but what about the idea of towing with just 3 liters? To me that is just too small of a motor. To put that in perspective, the E320cdi has a 3.2 straight six, the BMW 335 has a straight 3.0, etc, those are cars. Is that little VM motori diesel really that tough? To be under that high of a cylinder pressure and EGT continuously for thousands of miles...? And how's that going to stack up against the 5.0 cummins that's supposed to be coming in the new Titan? Unless that motor is really overbuilt, I'd choose the 5.0 cummins over it, but I'd be curious to see the size of the crank journals, rods, rod bearings, etc, between those various motors.

NO, the E320 is a 3.0 V6 diesel with lots of torque (400lbft), more than a Hemi, that is what is in my Jeep., the new EYEtalian motor has more than that.

 

[supton]

3L seems low, too low for a full sized truck. That said, look at the Ford Ecoboost, 3.5L, gasser though. The "rules" seem to have changed in recent years. Heck look at the Pentastar 3.6 in the Ram, it's rated to tow too, despite being in a full sized--8 gears goes a long ways.

 

[donDavide]

3L seems low, too low for a full sized truck. That said, look at the Ford Ecoboost, 3.5L, gasser though. The "rules" seem to have changed in recent years. Heck look at the Pentastar 3.6 in the Ram, it's rated to tow too, despite being in a full sized--8 gears goes a long ways.

Remember the Isuzu Cabover trucks? 3.9liters. But 3.5 would be opitimal, but the 3.0 has plenty of power for most uses. I have pulled big trailers and boats with no issues in my Jeep.

 

[2011tdiproject]

NO, the E320 is a 3.0 V6 diesel with lots of torque (400lbft), more than a Hemi, that is what is in my Jeep., the new EYEtalian motor has more than that.

The earlier ones, I don't know the exact years off the top of my head, but I know the '05, 06 E320cdi is a straight 6. It doesn't have the DPF or the same emissions stuff the V6 does. And that seems to have kept the resale value of those up, too, people like those straight 6 diesels, myself included. I'd much rather have the earlier one than the '07+.

 

[2011tdiproject]

Remember the Isuzu Cabover trucks? 3.9liters. But 3.5 would be opitimal, but the 3.0 has plenty of power for most uses. I have pulled big trailers and boats with no issues in my Jeep.

You're talking about the Isuzu NPR? I was looking at swapping one of those powertrains into my half ton chevy, (solid axle swap, dana 60, 37s, divorced np205) but the starter looks like it'd be right through my floorpan. I'm now looking at a cummins 4bt swap, but I'd have to do compounds on it to get it to go down the road like I want. I don't know. But that's a reason why I'm thinking about all this, still trying to figure out a powertrain for my truck. The newer NPRs really puzzle me from an engineering perspective, they go up to 5.2 liters, out of a 4cyl motor. Seems that would shake a pickup to pieces, if you ask me. But there has to be a reason why they build them that way, I'm guessing it's fuel economy. ?

Hope I didn't go too far off topic here, haha

 

[grohgreg]

NO, the E320 is a 3.0 V6 diesel with lots of torque (400lbft), more than a Hemi, that is what is in my Jeep., the new EYEtalian motor has more than that.

That and similarly sized Mercedes diesels have also powered that great big Freightliner van for years. For anybody interested, it is soon to be sold in America as an actual Mercedes van.

//greg//

 

[03_01_TDI]

Seems like you guys have a lot of other thoughts, but what about the idea of towing with just 3 liters? To me that is just too small of a motor. To put that in perspective, the E320cdi has a 3.2 straight six, the BMW 335 has a straight 3.0, etc, those are cars. Is that little VM motori diesel really that tough? To be under that high of a cylinder pressure and EGT continuously for thousands of miles...? And how's that going to stack up against the 5.0 cummins that's supposed to be coming in the new Titan? Unless that motor is really overbuilt, I'd choose the 5.0 cummins over it, but I'd be curious to see the size of the crank journals, rods, rod bearings, etc, between those various motors.

You do know that most all commercial diesel applications operate at near full capacity for there lifespan.

Big diesel trucks are 10.0-13.0l engine and they pull 80,000lbs all day long.

School buses use a 5.0 Diesel engine.

So, I would say a 3.0l engine would pull a little 5000lb boat

 

[donDavide]

You do know that most all commercial diesel applications operate at near full capacity for there lifespan.

Big diesel trucks are 10.0-13.0l engine and they pull 80,000lbs all day long.

School buses use a 5.0 Diesel engine.

So, I would say a 3.0l engine would pull a little 5000lb boat

I have pulled that plus an 8500lb food trailer no problems, Merecedes/SPrinters/Friegtliner/Ram have used this same engine for a while and a 2.5 (5cyl) in earlier versions too.

 

[kydsid]

3L seems low, too low for a full sized truck. That said, look at the Ford Ecoboost, 3.5L, gasser though. The "rules" seem to have changed in recent years. Heck look at the Pentastar 3.6 in the Ram, it's rated to tow too, despite being in a full sized--8 gears goes a long ways.

Not agreeing that small displacment is bad for a truck in any way.....but specific to the ecoboost..due to its size it uses fuel to cool the engine under high load. When towing you can see single digit mileage because of this. Its a great engine but when pushed and worked hard gets abysmal mileage. You have to balance all the use the engine and vehicle will see. I for one would never buy an ecoboost for a 100% tow use vehicle.

 

[03_01_TDI]

The dodge is going to face stiff competition from the Nissan 5.0, if the price is near the same. While 3.0 diesel is enough, I'd rather have more than less. And it's from a known American engine company. The same engine is also used in motor homes and school buses. So parts, repair, and upgrades should be more common than the Italian engine.

And the Cummins engine just plain out looks better.