Raising Car for Off-Road Crawling or Rally

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
coalminer16 said:
... Keep the pictures coming everyone with a lifted car in use. Kind of a show what you tow only a show your lift in use. I like the front sway bar trick. That is something I learned but it makes sense.
OK, this is what I did today. First I went to Golden Valley. Awfully muddy and the snow has not fully melted there. Not good for traction at all.

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So after a while I left. I went out to my favorite spot; Antelope Valley/Moon Rocks area. The soil compound is mostly packed decomposed granite. So I was buzzing down the access road and decided to follow a trail that sorta looked wide enough. It was pretty much a moto/quad trail. So I drove it all the way to a road I was familiar with, crossed it, and hoped the trail I was on didn't turn sour.

So I drove to the top, got out and scouted the trail because it started to go down now....I'm thinking, am I really up for this? Some of those rocks are big. If I stay left....hmm, if I stay right...hmm. So I walked it all the way to the bottom and was nervous. I felt it was on the edge of this cars capability.
I almost said forget it but thought, how will I know what it can or can't do unless I attempt this little sluice.

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It was this rock in the foreground that was bugging me.

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Soooo.....
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
I went for it. I chose my line and stuck to it.

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I chose to hug this rock...

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to avoid that oil-pan-ripper-rock...the car never touched anything in that section. I'm not sure why.

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and made it. However, further down I hit this rock. I've heard worse sounds but this one made me nervous...

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Pheww! I really made it and am proud of myself and my Golf.

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FL/COtdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Location
Aspen CO
TDI
2003 Jetta wagon
...the car never touched anything in that section. I'm not sure why
Awesome, some sort of matrix mod:cool:
 
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JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
At the bottom I had to hang this turn. Yeah right! Not without 4 wheel steering.

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But when I started initiating the turn, I heard a sound that I have heard before. I always thought it was tire rub and never really put a thought to it. I am only running 205/65-15's. Rub? Doesn't seem right...Then I noticed this...

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The swaybar rubs on the axle at full compression I guess. Not a big deal to me b/c it happens so little and at such low speeds.

So I left, feeling like a hero!

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Now I cant be the only one who does this with their TDi, right?
 

darkhorse

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
'06 Golf GLS, '01 Dodge/Cummins
Now I cant be the only one who does this with their TDi, right?[/quote]

I used to do that sort of thing & more with my '62 VW van. Of course that was a high clearance vehicle. I'm not sure I'd do it with my Golf unless I was desperate.
 

DCELL

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Sheridan, IN
TDI
'01 GOLF 2DR, ‘15 Passat SEL TDI
I've had mine sunk in some deep mud a few times, but never in mud with big fcking rocks sticking out like that! You got some serious guts, man! Nice pics! I only see pics like that on the TTORA and Jeep forums...
 

JungleDeath

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
There were two sets of rock gardens. The second one down is where I hit the plate. There was some red paint on one of those rocks also. Guess I need more lift?
I just ordered a 3/4" lift bushing for the rear. Scroll down, it's the 19mm one.

When I get a little more time I'm going to install another 10mm spacer up front that is sitting in my garage. Just a little more lift for cheap.

Btw, it's my wife's car. She loves driving it. She loves the in town drive ability, the sportiness of the Bilstein TC's, and the slight lift. As long as I don't give it back dirty and broken, she could care less. Nice huh?

Oh, I switched to RC2. I don't like it. It had too much punch down low/off idle. Sounds strange but I lost traction many times. I'm going to put it back to RC3; more linear throttle response. Smokes less also (pp520's).
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
BRAVO! This is awesome, and rediculous. Good driving, good judgement, and I'm sure a there was a little bit of good luck in there somewhere too. This makes me want a winch.

My Golf has been through a number of adventures. The car was actually my Grandfather's car before he passed away. His aeorta started to tear apart, a condition that brings virtually certain death within days or at most a couple months. He lived in this condition for well over a year. (driving the Golf the whole time) He had some recovery, and he somehow found a doctor who would sign off to let him drive. We could not get him to stop driving, despite the fact he was completely unsafe, despite the fact both of his sons were physicians and we all pleaded, he would not listen. He was over 90 years old.

I once was following the car as my Grandfather realized that he was on the wrong side of an upcoming center divider. Instead of slowing or stopping and backing up a few feet, he continued along at 35-40mph and swerved over the beginning of the divider. He was so shaken up after the leap the car took, he lost control (probably lost the wheel) and the car violently bumped off the the curb on the other side of the road. By this point, I was sure that we would be stopping to check the car for damage, or perhaps to check on his dog in the back of the car. Nope. 200ft ahead was the ramp to the interstate. Evidently, grandpa didn't worry too much over the event, set the cruise at 52, and drove 3 hours. (I got to follow behind to "make sure he got home ok". Going that speed on the interstate is really really scary.) Apparently, the MK4 golf, with a stock suspension, can take a certain number of 7" curbs at about a 10-15 degree approach angle and 35mph.

Another time, grandpa awoke, startled by the car shaking violently. He had fallen asleep with the cruise control on, and driven off the highway. I assume the speed limit was 55, so we can be fairly certain that his cruise control was set at 44-46. I wish I knew exactly what it looked like where he went off the road. I'd like to see what he got away with going at least 45 off the road in a stock MKIV.

The craziest thing I've done with my Golf was to drive on the 35 degree slope parallel to the trail because the slope was somewhat smooth while the trail turned into big sharp rocks and nothing else. I REALLY wish now that I had a picture of that. Golf was loaded with 4 people, back too full to see out of, roof rack 20 lbs over weight, stock suspension. The rocks were not gigantic, however, as in your recent adventure.

My only regret, is somewhere I may have littered by leaving my plastic underbelly. I don't know how I wouldn't have heard it. Another possibility is that my grandpa could have lost it in one of his many incidents.
 
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coalminer16

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
That is why the metal skid plate really needs to be the first upgrade. I am truly stunned that you still have the original oil pan/engine with that experience.
 

DCELL

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Sheridan, IN
TDI
'01 GOLF 2DR, ‘15 Passat SEL TDI
x2.
And no bent axles or wheels? seriously? I've hit little potholes and bent rims/ blown out sidewalls on a couple occasions.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
DCELL said:
x2.
And no bent axles or wheels? seriously? I've hit little potholes and bent rims/ blown out sidewalls on a couple occasions.
I would guess that happened to your Golf. I just suspect it because if it indeed has 17" wheels, they don't allow much cushion between the road and the wheel. On the Golf, 17" is getting near the limit for low profile to still take abuse and not fail from potholes and offroad.

When low profile tires and big wheels started getting popular, I read a performance review of high vs. low profile tires in a car magazine, (either Road and Track or Autoweek near 2000 I think). According to their g-meters, larger wheel/smaller tire generally performs only slightly better on dry pavement. With low profile performance is lost in rain and snow. Dry performance is also lost once profile becomes show-off low, I would guess somewhere under 2in. tire for our cars becomes a hazard in some places with bad roads. I am disgusted when I see SUVs with high profile wheels. So much weight, so little protection.

I briefly discussed downsizing my brakes and wheels to accommodate even more tire-to-rim distance. I believe it could slightly decrease the chance of a blown tire or rim offroad, and can potentially help traction on snow and ice vs. a low profile tire. If I ever do it, it will be one of the last, and least necessary modifications for the $$.

I would like to fill the tires with foam like we do with our farm equipment. I probably couldn't get much over 20-30mph without feeling a balance problem, but I also wouldn't have to worry about sharp rocks. Or police spikes for that matter. ;) We do it to all our farm machinary to avoid flat tires. I suppose a low profile tire would weigh much less after filled with foam than a high profile one, and might be able to spin a little faster without wobbling or damaging the suspension.

EDIT: On second thought, 24.7" is the outer diameter for stock tires, so 17" wheels should leave pretty good cushion... about 3.8" Guess you've hit some good potholes and I've been LUCKY.
 
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advaitin

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Location
Daytona Beach, FL
TDI
2006 VW New Beetle TDI (automatic)
Ton said:
This is nuts (off-roading with a modern VW).
It's got to depend on your viewpoint. I grew up on a farm--you had to get it done with two-wheel drive--or you went and got the tractor or a couple of mules.

I've been all over the world and been down places where there were no roads in Jeeps and barely roads in Subarus, Saabs and Ford pickups. The major distinction was not the drive but the clearance. Give me enough clearance and I'll take any front-wheel or rear wheel vehicle down any trail.

I just bought a 2006 NB DSG TDI with ESP (I hope I got all that right) and while looking under the bug could see that the plastic shielding is pretty flimsy. We have humongous speed bumps around here, high curbs, drainage dips between roads and parking lot accesses and lots of potholes. I think the bug is too low.

Obviously one of the new aluminum Panzer skid plates from Dieselgeek will help and replacing the springs as I've seen in another thread will give a little more ground clearance and protect the oil pan--just in case I should decide to go down a forest trail to take pictures of some rare bird--no rocks around here, but plenty of old stumps and broken roots.
 

advaitin

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2010
Location
Daytona Beach, FL
TDI
2006 VW New Beetle TDI (automatic)
Oh, Jungle Death, I know where you were. Did you ever try the Jarbridge area? great trails with hidden little hot springs.
 

Kitsune

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Location
Oregon
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI GLS
I've been shying away from being active in yet another forum, but I've taken my '03 Wagon stock on all sorts of dirt roads and trails up in the pacific northwest. It does pretty good, cracked 2 oilpans before I got my panzerplate, however.

As far as mods, I just added the towing rear springs and some bilstien HDs, gives me another inch and a half in the back and about half an inch up front, been scraping less things since.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Kitsune said:
I've been shying away from being active in yet another forum, but I've taken my '03 Wagon stock on all sorts of dirt roads and trails up in the pacific northwest. It does pretty good, cracked 2 oilpans before I got my panzerplate, however.
Just yesterday, following a car on an onramp, I hit a block of ice on the road that knocked my car really hard. (lifted the whole car an inch or two when I hit). My brand new panzer plate is sitting in my living room. I'm still kicking myself. (also, I'm in my garage right now installing the panzer plate)

EDIT: Panzer plate installed, went out to go plow through some deep snow and drifts since it's coming down like it's the end of time. Noticable results sliding over packed icy deep stuff. Engine seems quieter too, but that might just be the snow or the engine cover I finally put back. 79TA7.6- I did notice a new scratch on my oil pan. I have a lot of damage on my oil pan considering it doesn't leak.
 
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79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
i am guessing you did not have any damage to the drive train components? A hit that hard can be pretty harmfull. Just last week I bounced my car of a 5" round boulder someone decided to leave in the middle of the road. Luckily I have had my plate of for couple of years now. It was the first time it has come in handy, but I am sure glad I have it.
 

darkhorse

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2009
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
'06 Golf GLS, '01 Dodge/Cummins
advaitin said:
Oh, Jungle Death, I know where you were. Did you ever try the Jarbridge area? great trails with hidden little hot springs.
I've been up in the Jarbridge area (God's Pocket) but I was driving my old VW window bus. (lots of ground clearance) Hot & cold running springs & a great trout stream.
 

DCELL

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Sheridan, IN
TDI
'01 GOLF 2DR, ‘15 Passat SEL TDI
I think they are bfg A/T's. That reminds me of my '88. Should have kept that car.... Those pics belong on pirate 4x4!
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Hey... now that I got my panzer plate on I am thinking about how nice it would be to have other aluminum plates under the car. Especially important would be aluminum covers for the area behind the front wheels that will be taking hits from fast moving rocks/pebbles. This is important because a few feet behind the front tires I see the brake lines hanging down. Now that I have learned about these riv-nut things I used to install the panzer plate, I think perhaps it would be easy to buy some aluminum plate, riv-nuts, and bolts and just go nuts with the bottom of the car. There are already lots of holes under there.... and perhaps I could make more if I needed to.

Also, I need to look into other covers for the engine bay. as my side covers were ripped out "somehow". Now that I have a 100K mile timing belt job done, I'd like to keep the dirt, water, etc out of the engine area more than usual. I noticed that the intercooler is exposed to the front passenger tire... it could have rocks or anything thrown at it. Did I loose a shield in this area? Shucks, might be time for a front-mount intercooler. :D
 

paddyh

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Location
Canada
TDI
05 golf
holy sh*tballs this thread is giving me a chubby!

My wife and I have been playing with the idea of selling out Golf and Westy and buying a 1rst gen Tundra(we ski and mtn bike and stealth camp a good part of the yr)....this thread may keep us on the straight and narrow.

It's hard to consider 17-20mpg when we routinely are getting 50+ with a roofrack and ski box...the Westy's a bit of a money pit though...

as you were!
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
paddyh said:
holy sh*tballs this thread is giving me a chubby!

My wife and I have been playing with the idea of selling out Golf and Westy and buying a 1rst gen Tundra(we ski and mtn bike and stealth camp a good part of the yr)....this thread may keep us on the straight and narrow.

It's hard to consider 17-20mpg when we routinely are getting 50+ with a roofrack and ski box...the Westy's a bit of a money pit though...

as you were!
This is why I started the thread. I've had awd with snow tires, and it is amazing. 1992 Subaru SVX, I still have it. Amazing. BUT...

I once used to drive a mk2 diesel golf... and when I put snow tires on the front only, it was almost as good, even in very deep snow. When I was 18 I moved everything I took to college in a mk2 jetta and drove it home in one of the worst snow storms ever- from Michigan to Illinois. I do not exaggerate when I say that I saw more than 100 cars off the road stuck in my 400 mile drive. I towed a metal uhaul trailer with my 550lb motorcycle on icy roads, and the 2 snow tires managed to get me everywhere just fine. Even with the car overloaded and close to the ground, I was able to plow through deep snow. I don't like paying the price to lug awd everywhere I go. That price is sacrificing the sacred 40-50mpg. (And more importantly for many of us, the 500-800 mile range!)

EDIT: BTW... if anybody knows something about installing an ALH into the SVX while retaining AWD and giving it a 3" lift, I might get flighty. There is nothing that puts a grin on my face like a 90/10 rear/front bais that turns into a 50/50. All AWD cars should use this.
 
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Kitsune

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2003
Location
Oregon
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI GLS
Frankencar: Nice tires!

Anyways, I spent some time out on national forest roads this weekend with my (very mildly modded) kit. Works great! Hitch doesn't smack things, only pinged the panzer a few times, no biggie, can take ruts a bit faster, kept up with my subie friends.

Just remember if you're driving in the snow, you STILL only have 5 or 6 inches of clearance. :p So high-centering is still a possibility in deep snow.
 

manual_tranny

Smyth Performance- Intern
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Location
New Bedford, MA
TDI
2001 Golf @182K; 2000 Jetta @290K
Kitsune said:
Frankencar: Nice tires!
Anyways, I spent some time out on national forest roads this weekend with my (very mildly modded) kit. Works great! Hitch doesn't smack things, only pinged the panzer a few times, no biggie, can take ruts a bit faster, kept up with my subie friends..
Kitsune, I noticed you're a "newbie" here since 2003! Glad you remembered your password! I hope you got some pictures of that wagon.;)
Kitsune said:
Just remember if you're driving in the snow, you STILL only have 5 or 6 inches of clearance. :p So high-centering is still a possibility in deep snow.
Just gotta keep the speed up so you can "make it". :p
 

Frankencar

Veteran Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Location
Dixon, California
TDI
1991 GTI +TDI, Lifted 98 NB TDI, Corrado TDI Swap, 15 Golf TDI, a dozen TDI motors etc...
Golf

My 86 Golf has 27x8.50r14 BFGoodrich All Terrain T/A tires on it. I uesd the same size Kimho Road Venture M/T tires in the mud. the car measured 11.5" from the ground to the lowest part of the body (the K-Frame that the A-Arms mount to). :D I recently crackedthe #2 piston while teaching a Jeep a lesson in a deep mud-hole & sold the suspension to a friend at work. he put it on his 97 Jetta TDI - I will see if I can get some pics of it later. If any of you would like to see more pictures or information - I have many threads on VWVortex (just search archives for username Frankencar) and my specs are listed over at www.Rtuning.org This car will not be resurrected. my current project is a 91 GTI (will be getting the AHU from the 86 as soon as i can get it rbuilt) and the next offroad beast will be a New Beetle for m wife. If anybody knows of a really good deal (& i'm talking cheap!) on a TDI beetle in California - my ears are wide open. :D
 

slojoe

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Location
me
TDI
02 Golf
I didn't have time to read anything except the first and last pages, so maybe I am repeating info.
For about 3 years I've been running my 02 Golf with 2" lift, 215/75/something Michelins, Evo alu plate, Reese hitch, RC1 and VNT-17 with no problems. It outperforms average street cars on pavement and gets around off-road about as well as any fwd street car can.
I wouldn't want to lift it any higher, with VR6 suspension my car dives more than stock A4 on hard corners. Maybe a sway bar would be a good idea. The Metal-something kit from the vendor here is a proven product, I'd be cautious about experimenting with more lift. If I need more ground clearance I would take the plow off my truck. As others have said vw uses a sheet-metal frame, not really designed for beating on jeep roads.
You can expect to lose about 3 mpg with the lift and another 3 mpg with bigger tires. I use factory alloys, they are heavy but tough. I have winter tires on lighter B4 rims; although mileage is better, one rim is bent, unlike the heavy A4 rims.
My Michelins are rated for 80k miles, I'll get about 65k out of them before they won't pass my state inspection. They are hitting the wear bars now and still stick to wet roads. They cost more up front but a good value imo, especially considering safety.
A winch mount wouldn't be too hard to fab up, you could make a plate to fit in your trailer hitch, like an old 4-wheeler. My Reese hitch connects to the tow hook and is a 4-point hitch, it is solid, not sure about yours, I wouldn't hesitate putting a winch in my hitch. If you wanted a front winch you might fab up a plate that connects to the tow hook.
 
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