Raceware vs. ARP

[fouckhest]

I am currently in my "parts gathering phase" for my engine build "BEW"....

currently the menu is serving:

• 2 turbos for compound setup, flanges for manifold
• BHW 2.0L piston
• Rosten Rods
• PD150 intake mani
• colt cam
• and a bunch of other little piece parts....

currently i am looking to get the head studs ordered, i know that ARP does not currently make them for the BEW PD; i have contacted Raceware and they do....

any thoughts good/bad from one to the other?

i appreciate any thoughts/opinions...

cheers
mh

 

[ryanp]

I have raceware studs on my TDi and i did lift the head slightly with lots of abuse!! doubtfully the studs fault so i'd go to whoever makes them, haha!!

any links to their product?

 

[fouckhest]

I have raceware studs on my TDi and i did lift the head slightly with lots of abuse!! doubtfully the studs fault so i'd go to whoever makes them, haha!!

any links to their product?

cool....i appreciate the response, i was going to email you anyways, but figured i would post in here just for sh*ts & grins....need to just start a build thread

no link, there website is pretty swag...but they have head and main studs for the PD's

basically all that is left for my parts gathering now is a girdle and valve springs! well besides actually building it!

 

[andy2]

I would stay away from the racewares.They are not made as well as the Coswroth arp's that we use to use on the TDI's.I have stripped the threads off the racewares years ago I can't remember what I torqued them too but the old cosworth arp studs would start to stretch before stripping the threads.The new ARP TDI specific studs are obviously 10 times better than the raceware's.

 

[O.C.TDI]

I went with the ARP's. Although the PD150 headbolts hold very well at high power levels, they are not reusable though.

I don't like the idea behind the Raceware's... They have an extremely low torque threshold, their special coating is not reusable, and they have the same problem fitting under the cam cap the ARP's have.

Here is the thread with the part numbers....
PD Headstud Thread

Get the 10 studs and 10 nuts, do not use the ARP washer's, use the stock washers.
Have the nuts turned down on a lathe to the same OD as the stock head bolts.

I torqued mine to 105'#s has been holding 30-40psi just fine.

 

[TDIMeister]

Read any of the 5 other similar threads at the bottom of this page.

 

[fouckhest]

thank you andy & OC....i appreciate the link with the ARP part#'s....i will for sure call up ARP as well as check out Summit/Jegs...i trust the ARP name for sure....especially with this motor build...we are shooting for 300+ whp out of my haldex swapped mk4 gti....so i dont want to leave anything to chance!

Read any of the 5 other similar threads at the bottom of this page.

hmm....i didnt see any thread or any title that mentioned anything about head studs, nor either company name....and the search gives too many pages of crap by mearly putting in "head stud"....but thanks for being "that guy" behind the computer rather than being helpful

 

[dieselpower04]

Any more info on that Haldex'd GTI?

 

[TDIMeister]

hmm....i didnt see any thread or any title that mentioned anything about head studs, nor either company name....and the search gives too many pages of crap by mearly putting in "head stud"....but thanks for being "that guy" behind the computer rather than being helpful

Do you not see what I see at the bottom of the page?

If not, the links:
OK, someone had to do it: ARP vs. Raceware
ARP / Raceware headstuds Torques and results
Best source/price for Raceware head studs...or ARP?
Raceware Head Bolts installed
Raceware Head studs

There they are - 5 threads about ARP/Raceware, including one I started to solicit people's experiences with them. There are praises and pans for both brands in those threads and all over the internet. If your application calls for torquing them to nearly 50% over spec, Raceware is evidently not for you...

 

[fouckhest]

Do you not see what I see at the bottom of the page?

...i will wipe egg off my face when i need to....now i am wiping egg off my face...

i apologize, i have not spent much time on tdiclub, i did not know that feature was there; i thought you were implying look at the "bottom of the 'TDI Power Enhancements' forum"....

i will for sure take a look at all those; thank you! sorry for being an a$$, i unfortunately come from many years on the vortex....so take that for what its worth....

in regards to my application, this is my first diesel build...i had an mk5 jetta for a brief time, then it did not warrant the car payment plus high diesel cost after relocating/new job....my current project comes from the gasser motor...my 1.8t was ~325-350whp on FWD only....they i did the haldex swap, which would have likely dropped me down to the ~300whp range....unfortunately my work does not allow me much time to spend reading thread after thread and redundant posts....when a search yielded little, i though i was refreshing the subject due to the lack of HIGH HP PD builds....my this build is currently set to up the anti on TDI builds, especially the PD....i have invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of emails between "RyanP" (Ryan) one of his colleagues and "NoJoke" (Gus), trying to learn from previous mistakes....so i had not intentions of wasting any time...simply asking peoples opinions....

however, i am not familiar with your comment regarding....

torquing them to nearly 50% over spec,

care to elaborate?

sorry for any ill attitude

cheers,
mh

 

[fouckhest]

Any more info on that Haldex'd GTI?

i do not have any links to any previous "build" threads...its a bucket in a million pieces right now....i am redoing the bay, building the new engine, redoing the interior, it will get a full respray, new rollers...etc...

here is the car in its previous life before this current tear down/rebuild...

http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredvehicles/eurp_1005_2002_vw_gti/index.html

 

[TDIMeister]

however, i am not familiar with your comment regarding....

torquing them to nearly 50% over spec,

care to elaborate?

andy2 swears against Raceware because he said he stripped the threads of a set he used years ago. More background reveals:

I have used raceware headstuds and the threads failed when toruquing them somewhere past 100 ft-lbs.They could be better now or mabye it was a bad batch but I would never get them again.I've toruqued the cosworth ARP's upto 130 ft-lbs and had no issues.I did get the new arp studs and just beacuse they were better even though I had no issues with the cosworth studs.I think that the cosworths are fine if torqued to 105-110 ft-lbs.Really no need for better studs just a stronger Cyl head.

(Link)

That he stripped his Racewares "when toruquing (sic) them somewhere past 100 ft-lbs", but "toruqued (sic) the cosworth ARP's upto 130 ft-lbs and had no issues" as his reason for swearing against the former is irrelevant if you follow the manufacturer's recommended torque specs. For the ARP, it's 85 ft-lbs; 130 ft-lbs is over 50% above spec. That's what I was getting at. Andy's build has exceptional requirements, I am not slamming him at all.

 

[andy2]

The problem with the raceware's I used is that in order to completely crush the head gasket you have to torque them to somthing 115-125 ft-lbs and the threads can't take it.The old cosworth Arp studs will take 125 ft-lbs.There is a chance that the racewares I used were a bad batch,Who knows ?

 

[O.C.TDI]

Here is a hidden post with some info...
POST

There are a couple other posts he made regarding them as well.

 

[oldpoopie]

Here is a hidden post with some info...
POST

There are a couple other posts he made regarding them as well.

Why are they hidden posts????

 

[O.C.TDI]

Because they are in the "What did you do to your car" thread in the upgrade section.

 

[fouckhest]

andy2 swears against Raceware because he said he stripped the threads of a set he used years ago. More background reveals:

(Link)

That he stripped his Racewares "when toruquing (sic) them somewhere past 100 ft-lbs", but "toruqued (sic) the cosworth ARP's upto 130 ft-lbs and had no issues" as his reason for swearing against the former is irrelevant if you follow the manufacturer's recommended torque specs. For the ARP, it's 85 ft-lbs; 130 ft-lbs is over 50% above spec. That's what I was getting at. Andy's build has exceptional requirements, I am not slamming him at all.

The problem with the raceware's I used is that in order to completely crush the head gasket you have to torque them to somthing 115-125 ft-lbs and the threads can't take it.The old cosworth Arp studs will take 125 ft-lbs.There is a chance that the racewares I used were a bad batch,Who knows ?

thank you guys....that makes perfect sense, well then i honestly dont really see the need to try and reinvent the wheel...

i guess the ARP 8700's will likely be the route i will go....i was under the impression for the longest time that they did not make a studs for the PD, but at the same time it did not makes sense that they didnt make a stud that could be adapted....

i appreciate the help....one of these days im going to get a build thread going to show the progress on my pig

 

[dieselpower04]

Great looking car!!

 

[fouckhest]

Great looking car!!

thanks....looking forward to making some serious TQ with the new motor!

4wheel burnouts!!!

 

[dieselpower04]

thanks....looking forward to making some serious TQ with the new motor!

4wheel burnouts!!!

Should be a good time! Eventually I'd love to have the BEW you are building! Mine is doing just amazing on stock rods so far

 

[dieselpower04]

I went with the ARP's. Although the PD150 headbolts hold very well at high power levels, they are not reusable though.

I don't like the idea behind the Raceware's... They have an extremely low torque threshold, their special coating is not reusable, and they have the same problem fitting under the cam cap the ARP's have.

Here is the thread with the part numbers....
PD Headstud Thread


Get the 10 studs and 10 nuts, do not use the ARP washer's, use the stock washers.
Have the nuts turned down on a lathe to the same OD as the stock head bolts.

I torqued mine to 105'#s has been holding 30-40psi just fine.

What is stock diameter? I may have a lifted head/coolant leak problem...