R99 & Injection Pump Seals

[garciapiano]

I have access to R99 renewable diesel fuel where I live and I've enjoyed it thus far. My AHU runs very smooth and quiet on it with good torque.

However, I'm concerned about injection pump seals leaking due to the supposedly low aromatic content. Up to this point I've used TC-W3 2-stroke oil in a 1:128 dilution in my fuel to achieve a better aromatic profile for ULSD, but have been running the R99 without the 2-stroke oil. I'm not sure whether the information I have is correct.

I don't currently have any leaks (fingers crossed) but I'm curious if I should also add the 2-stroke oil or other additive to reduce the likelihood of seals leaking.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

Where’s your location? Most states run a 5% Bio blend which honestly negates the need for extra lubricity (bio is really nice, but hampers fuel economy).

Running 2-stroke will get expensive if you run it at 75:1 seeing R99 has no bio. Now some places are running R95 so that could be an option. I’d also like to say that as the 95 & 99 start rolling out, their aromatic content will increase. I have to remind 76 and their staff that their renewable is needing some aromatics. I’m sure a few of you in Cali have done the same as well knowing either yourself or another has dealt with a leak or pump going.

 

[CleverUserName]

It will cause leaks. It’s only a matter of time. The numerous posts on here are true.

R99 has a lower energy density than Diesel #2 and your engine will make less torque running it in addition to lower fuel economy. It may or may not reduce emissions as that is highly dependent on the IC engine and tuning.

If that is what “blows up your skirt” as they say, then that’s the fuel for you to use.

 

[garciapiano]

It will cause leaks. It’s only a matter of time. The numerous posts on here are true.

R99 has a lower energy density than Diesel #2 and your engine will make less torque running it in addition to lower fuel economy. It may or may not reduce emissions as that is highly dependent on the IC engine and tuning.

If that is what “blows up your skirt” as they say, then that’s the fuel for you to use.

The R99 does have a lower energy density but appears to burn far more cleanly with better drivability. The difference is quite stark. So if there’s a trade off I actually prefer the better engine running. I’m ok with continuing to run it, I just want to make sure my seals don’t leak.

 

[CleverUserName]

The R99 does have a lower energy density but appears to burn far more cleanly with better drivability. The difference is quite stark. So if there’s a trade off I actually prefer the better engine running. I’m ok with continuing to run it, I just want to make sure my seals don’t leak.

I’ve done testing with RD and D2. With and without fuel additives. Your perceptions about Renewable Diesel aren’t true. It runs “smoother” and “quieter” because it produces lower peak cylinder pressure. I posted extensive information in this thread with sources. Read if you wish to know more. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/anybody-use-propel-hpr-in-a-bew.516765/#post-5682685

Working link to the Gladstone study:https://cdn.gladstein.org/pdfs/whit...-a-major-transportation-fuel-in-ca-report.pdf

I’ve already told you it will eventually cause fuel leaks. That is a fact, not an opinion. If you are worried about chasing fuel leaks or replacing the injection pump seals then don’t use it.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

Yet you dismiss that once their replaced and updated, it’s A-Ok. That’s assuming that the aromatic/lubricity additives do not change down the road as well.

There are trade offs to everything.

It’s a far more stable fuel. Concern about quality coming out of joe blow gas station is also negated. Yes, that’s years down the road, but it’s an added benefit.

Run it. The seals on the Bosch take less then 40min from cleaning to turning it over and adjusting with VCDS.

 

[CleverUserName]

Yet you dismiss that once their replaced and updated, it’s A-Ok. That’s assuming that the aromatic/lubricity additives do not change down the road as well.

There are trade offs to everything.

It’s a far more stable fuel. Concern about quality coming out of joe blow gas station is also negated. Yes, that’s years down the road, but it’s an added benefit.

Run it. The seals on the Bosch take less then 40min from cleaning to turning it over and adjusting with VCDS.

Not so stable. And it’s “they’re” not their.

I experienced some sort of polymerization from RD that occured on a 250ml graduated cylinder that I used for testing. The fuel residue dried into a hard, plastic-wax-like coating on the inside of the cylinder accompanied with a foul odor. I only got fuel from Propel branded pumps and it was always R100.

Based on this I would guess that RD reacts with atmospheric oxygen and is not suitable for storage especially in any vented system.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

Not so stable. And it’s “they’re” not their.

I experienced some sort of polymerization from RD that occured on a 250ml graduated cylinder that I used for testing. The fuel residue dried into a hard, plastic-wax-like coating on the inside of the cylinder accompanied with a foul odor. I only got fuel from Propel branded pumps and it was always R100.

Based on this I would guess that RD reacts with atmospheric oxygen and is not suitable for storage especially in any vented system.

I’ve done testing with RD and D2. With and without fuel additives. Your perceptions about Renewable Diesel aren’t true. It runs “smoother” and “quieter” because it produces lower peak cylinder pressure. I posted extensive information in this thread with sources. Read if you wish to know more. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/anybody-use-propel-hpr-in-a-bew.516765/#post-5682685

Working link to the Gladstone study:https://cdn.gladstein.org/pdfs/whit...-a-major-transportation-fuel-in-ca-report.pdf

I’ve already told you it will eventually cause fuel leaks. That is a fact, not an opinion. If you are worried about chasing fuel leaks or replacing the injection pump seals then don’t use it.

How many transfer stations, fuel depots, along with fuel stations are exposed to the Atmosphere?

 

[CleverUserName]

How many transfer stations, fuel depots, along with fuel stations are exposed to the Atmosphere?

They probably all are. Anytime you empty or fill a tank, there needs to be a vacuum or pressure relief to prevent overpressurizing a tank or collapsing it like a aluminum can under vacuum. The vacuum relief while emptying will pull in atmospheric air unless another gas is used to displace the liquid. Basic Physics.

Large diesel storage tanks for stationary equipment are usually open vented to atmosphere through a particulate filter to keep bugs and contaminants from entering.

Edited to add: it’s also possible that there was some RD that had bad QA/QC which left the refinery and I got some. Not sure, just sharing my experience with testing RD for those who may find it interesting or helpful.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

They probably all are. Anytime you empty or fill a tank, there needs to be a vacuum or pressure relief to prevent overpressurizing a tank or collapsing it like a aluminum can under vacuum. The vacuum relief while emptying will pull in atmospheric air unless another gas is used to displace the liquid. Basic Physics.

Large diesel storage tanks for stationary equipment are usually open vented to atmosphere through a particulate filter to keep bugs and contaminants from entering.

Edited to add: it’s also possible that there was some RD that had bad QA/QC which left the refinery and I got some. Not sure, just sharing my experience with testing RD for those who may find it interesting or helpful.

Oh boy. Of course there are brief moments in the replacement of a “Gas” in place of a “Liquid” when contained in “xyz” apparatus. To infer degradation of such during that time is laughable.

keep it up. I enjoy these conversations.

OP. You’ll be fine as I mentioned prior. If your VP37 needs a seal replacement, it’s only because #2 kept it going longer than it should have. I’ve used this in an ALH with updated pump seals, BEW (no issue), BRM (no issue), and CR’s of various makes (no issue). I own and still have every single one.

As has been said many times prior, you can head to a nearby station and get #2 if you so choose. The prevalence of R95 and up is trivial.

All the best