R150f/ax15 interchangablity question

[PickleRick]

I know a few of you guys really know these transmissions

I've had two rebuilt transmissions, one from the r150 Toyota experts that have given me nothing but issues. Work great for a few weeks then I lose a gear. One lost 2nd then 4th. My current lost 4th. Can still get them into that gear but must rev match. Being told by one shop that it's due to Chinese parts not fitting as well as they should. Taken it to the shop so they can test in person that it's not a clutch disengagement issues. Also sent them videos of the inspection of tob/pilot bearings (all oe or OEM yota Japanese quality replacements)

Getting tired of swapping transmissions.


I know for the input shaft side I only need to swap the input to match the bell I want to use.

What do I need to swap a yota transfer case on an ax15? Will the output shaft spline be the same for both?

Advance adapters sells a new ax15 for about the price of what I've paid for a Marlin crawler R150f rebuild.

If I can find them the OEM part number for the input shaft I need for a 3.0 to r150f they may consider selling me one.

So far my longest lasting transmission was a craigslist rusted out 93 4 runner, former gambler 500 runner that I scored for 800, got a couple years out if it before 3rd started to grind. Over 300k on the odometer. These transmission are usually stupid reliable, it's driving me crazy.

 

[jimbote]

How are you destroying r150s? I've had the same w59 in my tdi Tacoma for over 200k miles and over 400k total. Is your trans centered to the crank?

 

[PickleRick]

I would assume that after nearly 30k and the hub has not come out of my clutch disk that my DSC adapt kit is centered.

My first transmission had water in it after inspection...over a year after purchase. It ran but had a terrible 3rd gear grind. Water was in it for years, had to pop the transmission free with a breaker bar to spin freely. Ran it for maybe 6 months until I purchased a parts rig with a supposed good transmission.

Trans 2 Despite 300k on the dash and gambler 500 decals on the side of the rig the 1992 4 runner donor transmission ran for over a year before developing a 3rd gear grind.

Rebuilt transmission 1 has nearly 2k worth of work, it was the water filled transmission. Didn't last more than a month on the road before 2nd and 4th issues developed. Before pulling even 1st was hard to find occasionally.

Rebuilt transmission 2 is perfect over the past couple months other than 4th becoming an issue. Began with 4th gear down shift issues and now a an up shift issue too.

Usually alignment issues take out the clutch hub or input shafts. I don't have issues with either. I do have synchro issues apparently.

Input shaft 1 replaced due to rust along with most other gears. Input shaft 2 replaced due to age/wear/play.

The 1st trans rebuild has been sent back for examination. Once it returns I'll reinstall and take trans 2 back for inspection.

I suspect my issue is the rebuild of a good reliable Japanese transmission with cheap Chinese parts.

 

[jimbote]

Worth a check of centering. It can and does affect shifting as well as synchronizer life.

 

[PickleRick]

Isn't the r150f tear down similar to the w56? Requiring a cut off hunk of transmission case bolted to the bell in order the check run out? I unfortunately do not have a spare sacrificial case if this is the only method

Due to the runout issues on the acme adapter I did extensive research on Diesel Conversion Specialist reviews, making my focus on forums where many of us come to ***** and moan about inconveniences, engineering short falls, Tom Wilson and the annoying Clemson university fan base. While their specialty is in Cummins adapters they didn't have any complaints due to their work quality on adapters.

If td wasn't 10-12 weeks out I'd buy one of theirs to try out.

Worth mentioning, when I asked the local shop about my down shift issues the tech said he wasn't surprised as he didn't like the fitment of my new input shaft to that of the hub(I think he said hub) . He mixed and matched parts to get it as close to what he thought would work and got it as he said "best he could and doesn't know if he can do any better".

 

[jimbote]

Not sure what he meant by hub. Unless the new input didn't come with the dog ring which I think are press fit to the input. As for the alignment jig plate, you just need a bare case. No need to slice the front off. Slicing it just makes the dial indicator more accessible.

 

[PickleRick]

Whatever the input shaft mates to. The new output shaft is aftermarket, the just of what he said was it's Chinese made and it doesn't fit perfectly like the OEM did. 33301-35050 is the Toyota part number but it's NLA. He mixed and matched ax15/r150 parts to get my transmission as close as he could.

The r150 is hard to find these days in any shape. Since both were under warranty(one with tamper taddle tales on it) I am not going to rip the guts out just yet. While I have a dial indicator it's beyond my ability to repair the issue if there is one. If it takes out another transmission I'll bite the bullet and order a TD adapter. Might be easier than finding a craigslist r150f within a 2 hour drive.

That being said, my first used transmission lasted so long I'm not sold on the adapter being the issue. Developing a 3rd gear grind at 300k is probably not bad for an r150f. Especially one that ran the Gambler 500

While Diesel Conversion Specialist doesn't have many forum reviews, if any, on their TDI stuff they are very popular for their Cummins adapters and are regarded largely as one of the better suppliers.

 

[jimbote]

To answer your initial Q; pretty sure the jeep uses a unique output shaft spline that's not compatible with the Toyota t case. You probably already figured this out though.

 

[PickleRick]

Sorry that wasn't my question. I wanted to verify I can put an r150f transmission input shaft on an ax15 case along with my yota bell? Also, does the output shaft between the yota and jeep transfer case interchange where I can put my yota TC on the ax15?


I know guys swap counter shafts and 5th gears between the two. I'm just not sure what all can interchange. I've seen pics of reman ax15s that were full of yota components

 

[PickleRick]

I think I found the answer, to put the yota transfer case from the r150 on the ax15 you must swap the main shaft and rear case.

 

[jimbote]

I think I found the answer, to put the yota transfer case from the r150 on the ax15 you must swap the main shaft and rear case.

Yeah, sure. If you want to go that far.

 

[PickleRick]

I don't ...I'd be better off with an Atlas or d300 with yota flanges and twin sticks at that point.

 

[Tuco21]

I have been thinking about putting an AX 15 in my 95 4runner. My transmission is wearing out but not dead. It has 186xxx miles plus an unknown number of years without a speedometer cable (at least 2 years according to the po but he was very vague). The synchro's are worn and shifting gets difficult when the transmission get hot/warm. I came to the same conclusion as picklerick in that a new ax15 is the same price as a rebuilt r150f and I don't have to send in a core and wait. Because this is a project, and not my daily driver, it may be left for weeks to months at a time and not having to swap an expensive core is definitely a benefit.

I have done a lot of searching and reading and still have a couple of questions. These all have to do with the front of the transmission not the tail housing.

1. I believe that you can just change the input shaft from the r150f into the ax15. Can I just take off the front plate of the ax15 and slide the input shaft out (with the associated bearings and gears or do I need to split the case?

2. Do input shafts wear out? Should I get a new one because I'm in there or as long as its not visibly damaged, keep it?

3. Transmissions aren't my strong suit so I am trying to avoid removing or pressing anything with an interference fit. Can I just keep the rest of the input shaft together?

4. Is there anything obvious Im missing?

If its just swapping an input shaft, even with having to press on and off a couple of parts, the ax15 seems like the best option for me. Especially if I just have to remove the front plate to swap out the input shaft.

Matt.

I know for the input shaft side I only need to swap the input to match the bell I want to use.

Advance adapters sells a new ax15 for about the price of what I've paid for a Marlin crawler R150f rebuild.

If I can find them the OEM part number for the input shaft I need for a 3.0 to r150f they may consider selling me one.

 

[PickleRick]

The ax15 will not bolt to the yota transfer case without replacing your main shaft with the old yota main shaft and rear housing from an r150f. 95 is a cut off date when they went from 3.0 to 3.4 and the front prop shaft flipped from pass to drivers side. Is your rig a drivers drop pro? If so you can run a number of jeep cases. Using the old yota main shaft, to me, is counter productive to the new ax15, might as well rebuild an r150f.

The oem r150f input shaft for the 3.0 version is not available anymore. You may be able to get the 3.4 version, I've not checked. The input shaft needs to match the bell housing you use.

Input shafts do wear out. Neither of my rebuilds had an input shaft that either builder felt could be reused.


Matt Whitbread sells a jeep 4.0 adapter kit that is very reasonably priced that id consider if I was going from scratch on a build.

For kicks I've ordered a north west fab adapter kit, I will have my hands on two rebuilt r150 cases in the next few weeks. If I eat another I'll be swapping plates to see if my issues magically go way.

Right now 4th is my only issues, my other rebuilt transmission had 2nd and 4th issues. Both rebuilds showed issues within a month or two where my high mile r150f ran over a year before having any issues at all. I'm hoping I can blame my issues on Chinese parts or maybe less than stellar shop help ...both common issues in 2024

 

[Tuco21]

I have an early 1995 4runner with the 3.0. My engine is low on power even for a 3.slow and has several oil leaks. When I got this last year I was going to put a VW PD TDI in it and leave it at that. I bought an adapter from TD conversions (NW fab) in Canada because they had good reviews and when I called they were super helpful. Now the transmission is sounding rough and I started looking into transmission rebuilds which led me down this rabbit hole. I already have the adapter for the TDI to the r150f. TD conversions is open to me returning the adapter since it hasn't been opened but I need to pay shipping which isn't cheap but is probably the route I will end up taking.

I think I am going to end up with the PD--ax15--D300. I have converted a TDI to a mechanical pump and rebuilt several Dana 300's. The electronics are a little daunting but I can figure it out. It should fit relatively easily with a few fabricated mounts. If swapping input shafts was cheap and easy I would go that route but it sounds like the best way is to eat the shipping and any return fees and get the correct adapter. I will need to find a bellhousing but I don't think that will be too difficult.

Thanks, Matt

 

[PickleRick]

The ax15 4.0 bells should be easy to find since they used them for so many years in the xj, yj and tj.

 

[jimbote]

There are different iterations of the r150. They made some upgrades later in the line with changes in the helix angles, shifter mechanism, bearings, and synchros. I ran into this when I was attempting to use an r151f in my taco. I don't know if the AX15 followed suit but being an aisin trans I would look at the possibility of across the series changes.

 

[Tuco21]

I did find out that the input shaft needs to be put in place at the same time as the main and intermediate shafts because 4th gear and it's intermediate shaft counterpart would interfere with just pulling it through when just the front plate is removed. Realistically that isn't a lot more than pulling it out the front and it will make it easier to do the job correctly.

 

[caffeine]

Have you looked into using a GM AR5? It's another one in the Aisin 'R' series family, but at least they are a bit newer and not terribly difficult to find. A 4x4 variant also comes in the Colorado/Canyon (was used in those trucks as well as the Solstice/Skys).

 

[PickleRick]

Was unaware of that. Was this also the 5 speed matched to the i5 in the hummer 3?

I feel like a TDI h3 would be stupid sweet.

 

[caffeine]

Was unaware of that. Was this also the 5 speed matched to the i5 in the hummer 3?

I feel like a TDI h3 would be stupid sweet.

Yes, that's the one.

 

[jimbote]

Have you looked into using a GM AR5? It's another one in the Aisin 'R' series family, but at least they are a bit newer and not terribly difficult to find. A 4x4 variant also comes in the Colorado/Canyon (was used in those trucks as well as the Solstice/Skys).

Also MA5 from an Isuzu trooper. But it has it's own unique output spline. Keep in mind the AR5 and possibly MA5 probably has the updated helix angles and shift mechanism so will not be compatible with the earlier R150.

 

[PickleRick]

Marlin crawler indicated upon tear down that they didn't believe my adapter had anything to do with the abnormal wear on my 2nd and 4th synchros. They suggested it may have just been faulty synchros and replaced them all for good measure. It's being shipped back to me today.

Being that I don't have a shell to check run out and I'm absolutely tired of swapping these heavy/awkward r150 transmissions by myself I will not be putting it on until the nwf adapter arrives. Fingers crossed I don't have to do any mount bracket mods as both adapters are 2 inches thick.

The bad part is nwf is 10-12 weeks out so I won't have an adapter for another 8-10 weeks.

 

[Tuco21]

Does anyone know if there is a new input shaft available for the R150f to 3.0 v6? I know new oem isn't available but are there any other options? If I can find one I am going to try putting it into an AX15 from novak conversions.

Matt.

 

[PradoTDI]

Does anyone know if there is a new input shaft available for the R150f to 3.0 v6? I know new oem isn't available but are there any other options? If I can find one I am going to try putting it into an AX15 from novak conversions.

Matt.

I have not seen any aftermarket versions; your best option is probably to find a good used one. Toyota part number 33301-35050 for future reference. The later 5VZ version is 33301-35090, which has been replaced by 33301-60130 and is readily available. It fits in the transmission but is about 1" longer than the 3VZ version.

 

[PickleRick]

There are aftermarket r150 (3.0 style) input shafts available. Both rebuilds, local and marlin crawler, installed a new input shaft.

I don't know where either got them, the local shop said they were Chinese sourced. Pretty much any of the transmission rebuild kit suppliers can get one for you.

I'm already running a 3.4 clutch and flywheel kit on my 3.0 r150f. I wish now I had sourced a 3.4 bell and input for this rebuild

 

[Tuco21]

I already bought a NW fab adapter plate for the v6 3.0 input and bellhousing. If anyone wants to buy it from me I would make them a good deal and then not have to swap the input shaft.

I will call marlin tomorrow and see what they use.

Thanks, Matt

 

[PickleRick]

The 3.0 and 3.4 have identical engine bolt patterns. Im running the 3.4. Clutch kit and flywheel, on the 3.0 starter. The nwf obviously uses their own.

Just makes the length of the transmission 1 inch longer when running the 3.4 input/bell which would have been good in my case because I probably could have kept the transmission cross member in the original location.

I gotta give props to marlin. I told them to look for abnormal wear an off centered engine adapter could cause and they could have said not warranty. They payed shipping both ways and replaced all my synchros again. To me that's great customer service. I told them about the acme adapters causing clutch hub and input shaft wear hoping they'd specifically look for wear in these areas.

 

[Tuco21]

I called marlin crawler and they said the only way to get the proper input shaft was used. They didnt know about any others available. If anyone can point me in the right direction I would appreciate it.

 

[Tuco21]

I may have been making a mistake. I asked for part number 33301-35050 as listed above by PradoTDI but when I just searched it came up as an input shaft for a 2.4 and I have a 3.0. Also, my 4runner was made in 4/95 and I cant find a part number that includes anything past 1/95. I will keep searching