Question on PD150 Swap in California.

tothemax

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Location
Northern Canada
TDI
TDIs: 2003 Jetta, 2016 Q5 3.0
I am looking at the possibility of converting a 1.8t MK4 Golf GTI to a PD150. I live in California. After I got whopped at the drag races last week at the West fest GTG, I am thinking about building a nice golf 2 door with PD150, 6 speed.

I have been shopping for a long time for a decent 2 door golf TDI to build up and just cannot seem to find a one. All ones I seem to find are 4 doors, automatics, lousy colors, beat up, old, or cars that so not have a nice sport package like the GTI. I am really disappointing at VW for making the TDI here in North America a grandpa's car. My thought was to get hold of a clean GTI 04 or 05, a PD150 clip and have someone help me with the conversion. I’ll be am now shopping for the complete clip, including cluster, harness, ECU, IC, IC piping, TIP, all the piping, airbox, snorkel, 6 speed, axles, spindles, the whole front end, etc. etc.

My big concern is that apparently there is no certificate of conformity that comes with the PD150 clip as the PD150 was never certified for the USA market.



My questions are:

1- Will this create me a major problem when I try to do the conversion and get the car changed from gas to diesel? Will I be able to register the car in California after the conversion?


2- Based on this , should I abandon the 1.8t GTI to PD150 conversion idea and just continue my search for a 2 door Golf TDI and just do the swap on a 2 door golf TDI ? It would be only a swap from ALH to PD150 and would not have to change anything with California DMV. Since the PD150 looks identical to the US PD100 engine no one may know the difference by looking at it. However, an issue may present itself in that the PD150 isn't OBDII. Hopefully, my chip tuner can flash an OBDII program onto the PD150 ECM.

I would much prefer the option 1 because the 1.8t GTI’s are better equipped, sportier and easier to find than the Golf TDI 2 doors. But if I will not be able to get registered in CA, then I will continue the search for a 2 door golf and buy add all the other stuff I want to it.

I would live to hear from anybody who has done something similar in CA. All comments welcome. Tnx for your help.
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
I'm not exactly a CARB expert, but I would suspect that in order to do a gas to diesel conversion you'd have to take the car to a referee station. They'd probably want to know where the engine came from and if they find out it isn't a US spec engine then you probably won't get a pass from them.

If you do a diesel to diesel conversion then all you have to do is contend with the emissions test. The PD150 is also EDC15 and fully OBDII compliant. I can check to see what my readiness monitors say if it helps. The part number in the ECU could also be changed to match an ALH part number, etc. It would be easier getting the car to pass this way though it still wouldn't be legal.

A third option might be to buy a PD Golf and then swap in the PD150 engine retaining the EDC16 management. That would probably be the most legal way to do it.
 

tothemax

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Location
Northern Canada
TDI
TDIs: 2003 Jetta, 2016 Q5 3.0
Tnx for your response Mike and all the help you give me. I got your PD150 PDF's you emailed. I have been following your conversion thread and an hope have my own PD150 car this year.

I really like the third option you present except all the PD Golf I have come across are all frickin 4 doors :(. I am looking at building a sporty car and the 4 doors just does not cut it. I already have a four door sedan I am using for my commuting and family car. I really want some kind of 2 door sporty car to do some drag and maybe autocross. I think the easiest to convert the PD105 appears to be the 2 door MK4 Golf. Would love to get a 2 door A3 but we get the dog $hit and grandpa cars here in the US while the sporty cars stay in Europe :mad:

Do you know if they even made MK4 2 doors PD available to the US market?

tnx

P




vwmikel said:
I'm not exactly a CARB expert, but I would suspect that in order to do a gas to diesel conversion you'd have to take the car to a referee station. They'd probably want to know where the engine came from and if they find out it isn't a US spec engine then you probably won't get a pass from them.

If you do a diesel to diesel conversion then all you have to do is contend with the emissions test. The PD150 is also EDC15 and fully OBDII compliant. I can check to see what my readiness monitors say if it helps. The part number in the ECU could also be changed to match an ALH part number, etc. It would be easier getting the car to pass this way though it still wouldn't be legal.

A third option might be to buy a PD Golf and then swap in the PD150 engine retaining the EDC16 management. That would probably be the most legal way to do it.
 

vwmikel

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 5, 2005
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
'94 Golf Sport TDI
tothemax said:
Tnx for your response Mike and all the help you give me. I got your PD150 PDF's you emailed. I have been following your conversion thread and an hope have my own PD150 car this year.

I really like the third option you present except all the PD Golf I have come across are all frickin 4 doors :(. I am looking at building a sporty car and the 4 doors just does not cut it. I already have a four door sedan I am using for my commuting and family car. I really want some kind of 2 door sporty car to do some drag and maybe autocross. I think the easiest to convert the PD105 appears to be the 2 door MK4 Golf. Would love to get a 2 door A3 but we get the dog $hit and grandpa cars here in the US while the sporty cars stay in Europe :mad:

Do you know if they even made MK4 2 doors PD available to the US market?

tnx

P
I think there might've been some 2 door PD's in the US, but I think I'd have to look around a bit to refresh my memory. If you're going for sporty, maybe think about an Audi TT? But, then you're back with the gas to diesel conversion issues....
 

Left Coast Resident

Ubẽr Clubbie
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
San Fernando Valley (Los Angeles)
TDI
2001, 2002 & 2003 Jettas
Pierre -- I'm not sure what the new smog inspections will bring, but registering my converted wagon was as easy as going to the Auto Club (AAA), walking outside with the Auto Club lady, who said to me when I started it up, "Oh yeah, that's a diesel. My husband and I have a heavy duty diesel we tow a trailer with. I know what they sound like", walking back in, and a minute or two of mundane paper work later, it was registered.

I don't know what the chances are of them figuring out whether or not it's an EPA approved engine (like if you managed to swap in a non-USA legal 5 or 6 cylinder engine), but AT THIS TIME the general process is really simple and doesn't require a trip to the DMV.

I've got too much free time on my hands, because I've been speculating as to whether or not I could bring in a gasser, get an employee who's husband doesn't own a large diesel pickup truck to look under the hood, and get away with re-registering the gasser as a diesel.

Al
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
just go APR stage 3+ it will be cheaper, faster in less of a hassle because I believe the APR kit will pass emissions
 

tothemax

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Location
Northern Canada
TDI
TDIs: 2003 Jetta, 2016 Q5 3.0
Tnx for the responses guys,

I gave up in the 1.8T conversion and found a 2 door golf TDI. Looks like I will be building up the ALH instead of trying to do the PD150 swap.

P
 

mannytranny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Location
CA
TDI
02 Jetta (sold, such a great car) '16 Touareg
The CA rules are such that you must swap in an engine that is newer (year) than the outgoing engine.

Of course this is easy to fabricate, because the smog referee (that I went to) did not even bother to leave his office chair and look at the car.

My case was funny too, because the block itself was newer, but the entire injection system was converted to Mechanical. EGR was blocked, no other emissions equip.

I swapped a 1Z into a 1989 Suzuki Sidekick. 1996 year engine....maybe it would be tougher with yours since it will have to be smogged as it is post 1996.

Good luck....just remember when you go to see these bureaucrats, it is important to do a little homework. They are usually lazy and dull witted. Easy to sneak something past them.
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
Rules are changing pretty fast around here.

I recently got my Toyota w/ a 1Z engine registered.

1) Engine must be newer than the vehicle
2) When you register, the DMV will send you to a smog ref, who actually knows something about cars. Our smog ref immediately saw that it was a diesel, and that I had, um, "modified" some of the smog systems. I got away with it, because 1996's aren't under smog rules.
3) I've heard rumors that newer (I think 1998's) will be smogged, in which case you will be up against any standards that year of engine had to meet.

Notice I did not mention what CAR it applied to. In many ways, they don't care. I would get an early (lighter) year GTI 2 dr gas engine & do the swap - there's no advantage to swapping from a diesel to another diesel.

I would also highly recommend staying under that smog deadline if you are going to do much modding. Since the blocks are very similar, all you need is the engine year. I've got a bunch of mods that didn't exist when my engine was made and I am ignored by CARB.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
Alexandria, VA
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
e*clipse said:
Rules are changing pretty fast around here.

I recently got my Toyota w/ a 1Z engine registered.

1) Engine must be newer than the vehicle
2) When you register, the DMV will send you to a smog ref, who actually knows something about cars. Our smog ref immediately saw that it was a diesel, and that I had, um, "modified" some of the smog systems. I got away with it, because 1996's aren't under smog rules.
3) I've heard rumors that newer (I think 1998's) will be smogged, in which case you will be up against any standards that year of engine had to meet.

Notice I did not mention what CAR it applied to. In many ways, they don't care. I would get an early (lighter) year GTI 2 dr gas engine & do the swap - there's no advantage to swapping from a diesel to another diesel.

I would also highly recommend staying under that smog deadline if you are going to do much modding. Since the blocks are very similar, all you need is the engine year. I've got a bunch of mods that didn't exist when my engine was made and I am ignored by CARB.
great post, truely a great post as many of us have not had to deal with the toughest state in the country after swapping.

The one problem the original poster has is that he wants to mod a Mk4 :(
 

e*clipse

Veteran Member
Joined
May 9, 2007
Location
Chico, CA
TDI
Toyota TDI swap
I was under the impression that the OP didn't have the car yet. :)

The advantage of an older model year is twofold: beurocratics and physics. :p

One huge way to add speed it to loose weight. It's one of Lotus's design philosophies: "Build in more lightness"

It seems to me later VW's are actually fairly heavy. If I were building a "not a grampa's car" based on a VW, I'd start with an older lighter one.

"Project Weight Loss" is one of my favorite VW build threads: :cool:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=199314

Just my 2cents...
 

GiGGer

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Location
Quebec
TDI
GTI TDI 130
I've considered doing the same conversion (gas to diesel) when I made my pd130 project. I end up doing this on a 2000 Golf TDI 2-door directly and the swap was almost 100% plug and play. The result is pretty amaizing but building an ALH can be very powerful also.

CARB seems to be a pain in the ass...here in Quebec nobody will ever inspect your car for emission or security, they just don't care at all and they do claim we are a green province...funny.
 

tothemax

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2006
Location
Northern Canada
TDI
TDIs: 2003 Jetta, 2016 Q5 3.0
It's a whole lot greener than here in CA.... Trees are green.. fields are green... then it turn white...

Here all the hills are brown ;)

GiGGer said:
I've considered doing the same conversion (gas to diesel) when I made my pd130 project. I end up doing this on a 2000 Golf TDI 2-door directly and the swap was almost 100% plug and play. The result is pretty amaizing but building an ALH can be very powerful also.

CARB seems to be a pain in the ass...here in Quebec nobody will ever inspect your car for emission or security, they just don't care at all and they do claim we are a green province...funny.
 

cumminsfromthecold

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Location
HumCo
TDI
'84 Toyota 1Z 4WD x-cab
Re. CA Diesel swaps, law, emissions, registration, DMV

As of this posting date, CA's rules re. smogging diesels are:
http://dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm
per the CA Dept. of Motor Vehicles.

This is why I should have no problem putting the '97 1Z into the '84 Toyota truck. I smogged and re-registered the truck a couple of months ago, and I shouldn't have to go back until Sept. 2012, at which point I will happily skip the smog portion of my DMV torture.
 
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