Question about shifting into first gear...

saucer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Location
Fayetteville, AR
TDI
2015 Passat SE
On our 5-speed Jetta, when decelerating (approaching a stop sign, etc) if I try to put the car into first gear before it is at a complete stop, it will grind every time. This occurs with the clutch pedal to the floor, of course, but I can hear and feel a definite grind, and am unable to get the car into gear... until completely stopped. (Not to say I try and force until then.) This only happens into first gear, as I shift from neutral.

I'm just now thinking of asking the forum, as we've gotten it running again (long story) after replacing the entire clutch and hydraulic system about 100 miles ago. This replacement was part of another long story regarding burned clutches... and now I'm fearing they're connected. I believe its had this quirk the whole time we've owned it -- about 14 months.

Just to reiterate: I've recently replaced the entire mechanical clutch (Sachs SMF G60/VR6 kit) including the clutch fork and clip, the master cylinder, slaver cylinder, hydraulic line, and clutch fluid. I also "recalibrated" the linkage for the second or third time. (Even though this work was done for other reasons, I just wanted to provide some history)

Is this normal for the MK4? My 2010 does not do this, nor has any other manual I've driven over the past 15 years...
 
Last edited:

Jayg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT-VW bought back as a lemon
I never do it. On any of my cars, it just doesn't feel like the syncros should go into 1st when not at a complete stop. Just unneccesary wear.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
At very low speeds you should be able to go into 1st gear with gentle but constant pressure, no grinding. 1st gear is synchronized, unlike some manual gearboxes of days gone by.
 

eb2143

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Location
Rhode Island
TDI
None
Mine will only go in at very very low speeds, like crawling or basically at a stop.

I almost never feel a need to do this, as if I'm not planning on coming to a complete stop, just go from second...if I do come to a complete stop, it takes less than a second to then put it into first while I look both directions. If a stop is going to be extended (e.g. red light), it's probably best to just leave it in neutral with your foot off the clutch and pop it into first on the green. So I really don't see why you'd want to shift into first before coming to a stop :confused: I suggest breaking the habit/urge to do this.
 
Last edited:

Metalhead

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Location
Rochester NY
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Yeah, mine won't go in unless I'm a touch below 10 MPH, and I have to hold it there for a while until it complies.

Grinding might mean synchros are aging. Try changing the transmission fluid, and lubricating the sliding parts on the linkage.
 

Jayg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT-VW bought back as a lemon
Mine will only go in at very very low speeds, like crawling or basically at a stop.

I almost never feel a need to do this, as if I'm not planning on coming to a complete stop, just go from second...if I do come to a complete stop, it takes less than a second to then put it into first while I look both directions. If a stop is going to be extended (e.g. red light), it's probably best to just leave it in neutral with your foot off the clutch and pop it into first on the green. So I really don't see why you'd want to shift into first before coming to a stop :confused: I suggest breaking the habit/urge to do this.
Yep.

Even with a synchro 1st, I wonder if it is grinding because of repeatedly trying to put it in 1st when it doesn't want to go.
 

Mavrick

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Location
Ontario
TDI
2003 VW Jetta TDI
1st gear syncro is worn. You should never be forcing it into 1st gear unless you are nearly stopped completely. Try getting into the habit of going from neutral, into 2nd and then 1st and this helps line the gears up. Less chance of grinding.
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
Yeah, mine won't go in unless I'm a touch below 10 MPH, and I have to hold it there for a while until it complies.

Grinding might mean synchros are aging. Try changing the transmission fluid, and lubricating the sliding parts on the linkage.
I just noticed my mother's '00 Jetta TDI was doing this today when I was driving it. If I shifted into first gear while going about 5 mph forward. I would get a noticable grind. I have a habbit of not completely stopping at stop signs if there is no traffic approaching the intersection. My '04 does not do it at all. I should probably change the gear oil in hers. It's right at 100,000 miles. I would not be surprised if she is downshifting into first while going too fast, causing wear.

--Nate
 
Last edited:

wmgeorge

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Location
Central Iowa
TDI
2000 New Beetle GLS 1.9L TDI
Mine doesn't grind but sometimes difficult to get into first. Moving very slowing and downshifting seems to help. I figure its just one of those things...
 

PDJetta

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 6, 2003
Location
Northern Virginia
TDI
'04 Jetta GLS TDI Pumpe Duce Platinum Grey w/ Leather
Sometimes my '04 won't go into first from a stop and after pushing really hard, it goes into gear, but it is third. Adjusting the shifter does not help. I figure 150,000 miles of mainly rush hour driving and heavy traffic and lots of shifter use has caused some wear.

--Nate
 

Ghastly

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Location
mom's basement
TDI
2004 Jetta Sedan, 2009 Jetta Wagon
at walking speed, my 04 will down shift smoothly into 1st when the engine is cold. but requires an unreasonable amount of force when warmed up, even when at a dead stop. I've replaced the slave cylinder, and pressure bled it 4 times. I wish I could fix this.
 

Jettascuba

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2009
Location
South Africa
TDI
2002 VW Jetta
20 years ago I was taught never to put a car into 1st unless at complete stop... I know my ALH does not like it, and I wonder whether trying to shift into 1st didn't destroy your clutch also. Simply because of engine and gear speed mismatch.
 

Sbeghan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Location
Triangle, NC
TDI
03 Jetta Wagon 5spd 390k mi
Have you guys tried changing out your transmission fluid? I've got 350k miles and it goes into 1st gear fine with gentle pressure, never grinds. Rev matching helps of course. Once I accidentally popped it into first at 30 mph. I say check the fluid because when I got my car it had trouble going into 1st, 3rd, and 5th and changing the fluid fixed it right up.
 

fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
I have been checking out mine and at about 15 mph with just gentle pressure it slides right in.
 

OlyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Location
Olympia, WA
TDI
'04 Golf
I checked mine after reading this thread yesterday -- goes in at 20 mph very nicely. I just changed out my gearbox lube with G70 and the thing shifts so beautifully since. I'm really surprised at the improvement as it seemed to be working fine prior!
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
I have been checking out mine and at about 15 mph with just gentle pressure it slides right in.
I checked mine after reading this thread yesterday -- goes in at 20 mph very nicely. I just changed out my gearbox lube with G70 and the thing shifts so beautifully since. I'm really surprised at the improvement as it seemed to be working fine prior!
I'm curious what RPM both 15 MPH and 20 MPH are for 1st gear?
 

snakeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta and Wagon, GLS 5sp
Mine seems to go into first smooth even driving at 30km/h. I know this because someone was tailgating me in traffic, and shifting into first and dropping the clutch seemed to solve that problem instantly.

Does shifting into 2nd before putting it into 1st prevent grinding like with the reverse gear?
 

SOOT4BRAINS

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2010
Location
Phoenix
TDI
2001 golf 4 door 5 speed
My last car (2000 w/206k) had this issue. Previous owner never changed the gear oil. I changed it at 146k when I bought it but it still ground a bit going into first, even at a stop just a little catch. If you were moving forget about it. The new fluid did help some. My car now (2001 w230k) will go into first at 15 mph with a little pressure and a second or so of patience. If you rev match it will drop right into gear. Previous owner changed the gear oil in the transmission at reasonable intervals. I'd try changing the fluid and if it still does it you need a new synchro, as you have pretty much ruled out a clutch issue.
 

Jayg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT-VW bought back as a lemon
I checked mine after reading this thread yesterday -- goes in at 20 mph very nicely. I just changed out my gearbox lube with G70 and the thing shifts so beautifully since. I'm really surprised at the improvement as it seemed to be working fine prior!

Is there a particular reason you are downshifting into 1st gear at 20 MPH?

You guys are just tearing up your cars for no reason, these cars will easily accelerate from 5 mph in 2nd gear. Why force it?
 

fruitcakesa

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Location
Vermont
TDI
04 jetta 5 spd wagon
I have been checking out mine and at about 15 mph with just gentle pressure it slides right in.
I looked a little closer today and it was nearer to 11-12 mph and maybe 1000rpm.
At a f aster speed it needed more of a push into gear.
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
Tried mine at 15mph, gearbox only partially warmed up (about 5mile from start). Had to lean on it a little, then clicked right in. Realized in the 12yrs I have driven the car, I have never pushed in into first unless at near zero speed.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
Joined
Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
~2600 at 15mph, and ~3500 at 20mph..
Seems a bit high to be downshifting to those RPMs, given the gear ratio difference. (that was why I asked). In higher gears, going down, it's much "easier" on everything.
 

TDIJetta99

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Port Jervis, New York, USA
TDI
03... Faster than yours =]
Ya mine usually only sees those sorts of 1st gear rpm while accelerating.. Once in a while I'll sling it into 1st going 10-15 to do a rolling burnout (I have a better diff that won't break) but that's about it..
 

Lug_Nut

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 20, 1998
Location
Sterling, Massachusetts. USA
TDI
idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
The output shaft and half of each gear set is spinning at road speed.
The input shaft and the other half of the gears are spinning at clutch speed.

If you have the clutch pedal pressed, the input is not spun by the engine idle, but will slow and stop pretty quickly.
So the result is you have gears spinning at whatever equates to 20 mph trying to mesh with gears at standstill.
And you wonder why they grind.

At least let the clutch pedal up in neutral for a moment to get the input spinning at idle rotation speed. Engaging 1st will be less traumatic if the input and output difference is less.
 

Jayg

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT-VW bought back as a lemon
It still shouldn't grind with a synchronizer if it's working properly.. It will just block you from selecting the gear if it can't match speed..

If it doesn't want to go don't force it! I guess I can't fathom why some of you are creating this problem for yourself. If you are at a crawl, 2nd gear goes in easily and accelerates just fine past anything over about 2 mph. Anything under that, stop, find 1st and go from there.
 

wakdady

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Location
San Francisco
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 5spd
Just use 2nd and let the boost pull you out.

Its funny, when I let people drive my car, they drive it like a gasser and shift way too late, where there is no power. Just utilize that torque and shift sooner, geez, lol.
 
Top