Pulling Boat w Jetta TDI?

[NoSmoke]

Show me an insurance agent that knows the manufacturer's accpetable tow ratings for every car without looking... And I'll show you a liar.

So? They don't have to know the tow weight w/o looking - if you cause an accident while pulling a trailer, all they have to do is look it up (and I suspect they would).

Insurance companies would be perfectly happy for you to give them all your money, and never drive or even take your car out of a ziploc bag wrapped in a bomb shelter. That way they never have to pay anything. It's easier to say "no you can't" than to do any actual work and determine what is possible and within the car's allowed capabilities.

They don't have to determine what is within the car's capabilities - the car manufacturer has already done that. I simply told my insurance co my car is rated at 1000 lbs and I wanted to pull 1400. They said forget it - my opinion or anyone else's here is irrelevant if a claim is made and denied.

Perhaps a court would see otherwise if you are forced to sue the insurance company over a denied claim. I suspect that would get expensive real fast though with no guarantee at all of success. IMO you are taking big risk towing overweight - much like driving with no insurance at all I would think.

 

[Geordi]

If you actually were going to tow more than the rated amount on your car, then you are insane, and I agree with the agent. I thought your car was rated the same as the Jettas. If that was the case, and the 1400 was within the rated limits of the car, then the insurance agent is wrong, and they would be forced to pay out, plain and simple. If you go "off the reservation" you are on your own. My trailer (when empty) is easily within the rated limits of my Jetta. When loaded, if the trailer is only loaded to IT'S GVWR (1800lbs cargo, 2900 gvwr) then it is still within the upper limit, but should have brakes installed. At the moment my trailer does not contain brakes, and that is something I am considering for all future trailers I may own.

 

[Franko6]

Thank you for the conversion, but I'm sure Frank will still insist that those designed and tested numbers are false, since he knows everything there is to know about towing.

Hey Frank, you've forgotten to tell us about shock-loads to the trailer system, and how a shock load can be up to 10 times the static weight of the trailer! Are the hitches on your wonderful Cummins set up for shock loading, since it's obviously designed purely for towing?

And you call me a know-it-all....

I think instead of doing something rash and telling you what I think of your statement, I will tell you, nobody has discussed overload springs either, but at this point, I really don't care.

The thread was started because someone wanted to tow an 18ft boat that has to be about 2 1/2 tons of total weight and as if it would make any difference, I doubt it's got electric brakes.... My assertion is that is a load far in excess of what a VW passenger car should tow. Or to quote VW...

" YOUR VOLKSWAGEN WAS DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR PASSENGER TRANSPORTATION. IF YOU PLAN TO TOW A TRAILER, PLEASE REMEMBER THAT YOUR CAR WILL BE PERFORMING A SERVICE IT WAS NOT INTENDED FOR."


I'm sure there are legal and civil liabilities involved for those so bold who overload the car..

But for what I know or don't know, you don't know me and you can keep your insults to yourself. I never challenged any information that either you or anyone else offered. All I did was open up my operator's manual and read what it says. Beside that, I haven't hurled any dispursions your way. You should try to keep your tongue in check than to infer things about me.

Maybe you have a 110hp, 130 or 150... I don't know, again I don't care. A bigger motor doesn't help them stop any better.

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should"

Now...try to be civil.

 

[Geordi]

And you call me a know-it-all.... The thread was started because someone wanted to tow an 18ft boat that has to be about 2 1/2 tons of total weight....

No, I call you a person who vigorously defends his opinons, even when they have been completely proven wrong. The boat and trailer isn't anywhere CLOSE to 5000 lbs, as even a simple google search proves.

An 18' bowrider boat and trailer is still less than 3000 lbs, and many boat trailers come equipped with brakes now, so this combination is still within the rated limits of my car, ACCORDING TO THE BOOK.

Here is the actual text from the link I posted that you obviously didn't read, or choose to believe that you are correct and a boat builder doesn't know how to weigh what they built:

Specifications

With Trailer
Storage Length (Tongue Swung to Side) 20'1" (6.12 m) Beam 8'2" (2.49 m) Approximate weight w/standard engine 2,905 lbs (1,318 kg) Length rigged 21'9" (6.63 m) Height rigged 6'3" (1.91 m)

Yup, that says the boat and trailer weighs 2.5 times the weight of the car... Or 2.5 tons... Whatever you want to believe there buddy.

Here's that link again, so you can read the specs for yourself if you want to know the truth:
http://www.boatingvermont.com/2006/bayliner/runabouts/185/185.htm

Civil enough for you?

 

[s20130]

towing with a Jetta

I wondered the exact same thing, can I tow with the jetta?
We have a 20 ft sailboat that is dry sailed and raced one a week. It weighs 1200 lbs and the trailer is about 1,000. We pull it in and out with a Olds 88 with the 3.8 V-6. The total travel is less than 25 yards each way. It is not the engine that is the worry, its the transmission. It does cause premature wear on the tranny. I know, I had one fail because of towing too heavy stuff. I also sank a Mazda 626, but that is a whole different story. We would only use our Ford F250 to tow on the road. It is a heavy, long wheel base, rear wheel drive vehicle that is MADE to be a tow vehicle.

If we blow the tranny on a 10 year old olds it's, what, $1,200 to replace. If I blow the tranny on a DSG, it is a whole lot more than that! You can certainly buy an old tow vehicle for less than a DSG would cost you. Also, the short wheel base compared to a truck hurts the cause.
Also don't forget on a motor boat the motor weighs a whole lot and it pushes the center of gravity back considerably. I guess what I am trying to say sure you can do what ever you want, but why take the chance?

 

[weedeater]

Since the Caravelle comes in around 2700lbs (no fuel, no oil, no nuthin), 200lbs seems a little light for a trailer. Using the Bayliner numbers for the trailer, that would be around an additional 800lbs. Which would make this come out to 3500lbs.

Which is not unreasonalble for an 18' bowrider with trailer. A bit light once you add a bigger motor, fuel, cooler, friends, dog, skis, grill,......

That's well into Class 3. I wouldn't do that with a Jetta, at least not more than twice a year and in sunny weather.

 

[DIESELprogrammer]

It's the wheelbase, the weight, and the brakes.

The car isn't long enough and doesn't weigh enough, and doesn't have enough stopping power. Trucks are long enough, do weigh enough, and have the stopping power.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Lets see:

I pull a utility trailer behind my Golf:

Golf: 13.5’ long X 5.5’ wide X 3Klbs.
Trailer: 8’ long X 5’ wide X 2800lbs braked.

I pull a horse/stock trailer behind my F350, Diesel, CC, 4x4:

F350: 22’ long X 6.5’ wide X 7200lbs.
Trailer: 36’ long X 8.5’ wide X 12klbs braked.

Guess which one handles the best in practiced emergency situations and everyday driving, stops the fastest in all conditions, and has the smoothest ride at highway speeds – as stated in my earlier post, it is the Golf.

In addition, I believe that square inches of brake surface to total gross as described above is greater with the Golf. But this is only a guess based on having replaced pads on each and comparing them side by side. Someone else can calculate for sure if they want.

In the case of the F350, I am well within the manufacturers towing capacity recommendations. With the Golf I am within the European Union tested rating. Yet there are those that don’t question the F350 and ignorantly fault the Golf.

 

[Franko6]

Look, you don't know me, but you came off with a very insulting way of saying you disagree. My first search found a caravelle bowrider that did weigh 4000 lbs. I will concede that now I find the correct boat, weighing in at 3000 lbs.

They always weigh them empty, no fuel and no trailer. Now that we are ONLY talking a 1 1/2 ton boat, it's a single axle, which adds probably only about 400 lbs. Fill it with gas (nobody wants to actually buy gas ON the lake) and instead of 2 1/2 tons you are ONLY pulling 1.85 tons... 3,700 lbs. Isn't stretching everything to the limit an unreasonable thing to do?

 

[ssamalin]

No towing

Jettas can carry a half ton and tow nothing. That's in the manual right? The tow hook is for towing the Jetta, not for towing with the Jetta. Front wheel drive is inherently unable to tow due to timing belt right? I'm confused since so many here are towing.

 

[DIESELprogrammer]

I will tell you, nobody has discussed overload springs either, but at this point, I really don't care.

I did mention in an earlier post in this thread that I have air-bags installed for safety. These are installed in the rear coil springs and are AirLift 1000lbs rated air-bags. Handling is much improved when you can maintain a level vehicle while towing. Even with 500lbs of tongue weight.

And they have been discussed in depth on TDIClub here:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=110896&highlight=airlift

 

[alphaseinor]

Geez... this thread is still alive...

Frank... I think you are beating a dead horse... I've seen people tow things they shouldn't, like memorial day weekend about 4-5 years ago there was a F350 Dualie with the proper class setup to carry a 5th wheel, I'm sure the 10' boat also on the back end of that 5th wheel was still inside of the towing capacity of the F350 even with the 5th wheel. total length on that puppy was shorter than a semi. First time the traffic on I-25 started to stop, the guy fishtailed and ended up being crushed by the 5th wheel I think he killed his entire family... BTW he had plenty of space between him and the people in front of him, and was traveling maybe 55 MPH.

back to the beating a dead horse... yeah if someone wants to carry 3,000+ lbs with a vehicle that is 3500+ lbs... more power to them; you won't argue with them for long.

Personally I wouldn't ever pull a 3000' 18' boat with my car. First good luck finding a class 3 hitch for our cars. second... my car weighs about 3500 lbs (maybe less maybe more???). I've taken 1800lbs before... that's it...

 

[jasonTDI]

Jettas can carry a half ton and tow nothing. That's in the manual right? The tow hook is for towing the Jetta, not for towing with the Jetta. Front wheel drive is inherently unable to tow due to timing belt right? I'm confused since so many here are towing.

Sam, it has nothing to do with the timing belt. It's the brakes and chassis set up. You are safe for towing with your car. Just up to you how much you want to tow. There is always excess wear and tear on the car, it's just up to you what you can stomach.

 

[ssamalin]

Sam, it has nothing to do with the timing belt. It's the brakes and chassis set up. You are safe for towing with your car. Just up to you how much you want to tow. There is always excess wear and tear on the car, it's just up to you what you can stomach.

Thanks jasonTDI

 

[Franko6]

Alpha.. it's not so much the horse... but the ho's.

But I've been been kicked around by better then that.

I was hoping to see someone come up with a picture of their fifth wheel setup on a Golf. You know... a thirty foot trailer with a 32 ft turning radius.

I think I'll go fix a Jetta now... I hear a BEW calling...

 

[TDIJetta99]

Alpha.. it's not so much the horse... but the ho's.

But I've been been kicked around by better then that.

I was hoping to see someone come up with a picture of their fifth wheel setup on a Golf. You know... a thirty foot trailer with a 32 ft turning radius.

I think I'll go fix a Jetta now... I hear a BEW calling...

LOL, it's funny you mention the 5th wheel thing.. We had an old Ford Festiva that we planned on mounting a 5th wheel setup on the roof just to move empty car carriers around the lot, it would've worked well enough but the transmission went on the car before we could do anything with it...

 

[DIESELprogrammer]

I was hoping to see someone come up with a picture of their fifth wheel setup on a Golf.

Actually I did design a fifth wheel hitch for my Golf. Funny what you do when you are 3D computer modeler that likes to play.

The design I created is an exterior roll cage dropping from the roof at the B pillar, which then attaches to a reinforced undercarriage interior of the side skirts. It also drops down at the rear corners to connect to my already installed custom hitch – all 1.5’x3” tubing if I recall correctly.

It had drop down feet so that it would stand on its own separated from the car. To attach, you just drive the Golf under, pin the assembly to the car, lift the feet, and then go attach the trailer.

It has been a couple of years. But if I get some time in a couple of weeks to check my archives, I’ll post the renderings I did of the model superimposed over pictures of the Golf.

 

[Franko6]

Tell you what... why don't we put a remote TDI engine in a motor home, and ues the 5th sheel Golf simply as the 'front steering pod'. After all, the engine is wired... no cables. You can use the second engine for pulling big hills and passing. The extra ABS brakes wouldn't hurt either.

OMG... I've created a monster...

 

[Geordi]

Okaaaaaaaayyyy then... I think some people need to start passing around whatever they have in that bong there!

 

[weedeater]

In otherwords, don't Bogart that joint.

 

[Geordi]

Puff puff pass, y'know?

 

[alphaseinor]

I made the entire 1.9L TDI engine in Pro-E for a final exam... glad I had one pulled apart... BTW... got an A

 

[Honeydew]

I put this hitch on my lawn mower for moving the boat around the back yard. It probably is exceeding the tow rating of the mower but I like it.

 

[2004Nick]

Pulling boat with Jetta

I agree with Frank06------trailers are just oo tough on
transmislsions and clutches, regardless of weight! Sooner or
later you will get in somekind of a bind and do some expensive damage--just not worth it, Just buy a cheap beater (Heavy) for that kind of work and leave the expensive German made stuff to do what they are intended. Just my 2c but based on personal experience.
One short incident cost me a clutch
AND Dual mass flywheel--not on warranty!

 

[Gavin_1]

 

[Franko6]

I agree with Frank06------trailers are just oo tough on
transmislsions and clutches, regardless of weight! Sooner or
later you will get in somekind of a bind and do some expensive damage--just not worth it, Just buy a cheap beater (Heavy) for that kind of work and leave the expensive German made stuff to do what they are intended. Just my 2c but based on personal experience.
One short incident cost me a clutch
AND Dual mass flywheel--not on warranty!

OMG! People will think you're a pinko! I don't mind you agreeing with me, but you should only do it in a PM! It's conspiracy!

 

[bhtooefr]

Ah, the lumber Jetta. Always a classic.

 

[spyderhead]

NB TDI tows just fine!

I am only adding my two cents. I have towed an 1150# teardrop all the way up into Canada from Mississippi with absolutely no problems. Currently own a Fleetwood Neon popup with a weight of 1000# and it tows so easily I forget it's back there. While the teardrop had no trailer brakes, the Neon does even I cannot tell any difference. The Beetle towed the teardrop both up and down 6-11% grades on the Canada trip without any problem. The car is a standard by the way.
Like some of the other posters, I too once drove big rigs interstate (over a million miles), and to say that these cars are not designed, equipped, or capable of towing a reasonable amount is ridiculous. I personally would not worry at all towing up to 1800-2000# with my 2004 NB TDI with 5 speed, and I would not hurt one single thing in doing so.
Just my two pennies' worth.

 

[boostedhatch]

I tow a 4.5x 10 foot skidoo trailer with either a can-am 800 or a mxz 800 and I find that to be the most weight I would tow while being safe with my 01 Golf TDI. It will tow alot better at lower speeds that our 05 CRV but the CRV seems to be more stable at highway speeds and have more passing power with the trailer in tow. The TDI could benefit from better rear suspension and maybe a tuning box for towing.

 

[Geordi]

Telling us the size without the weight isn't totally helpful. It's not the overall size of what you tow, it's the weight that the car has to deal with.

And for those saying that you need a vehicle longer than your trailer or you will transform into a pumpkin... Pfft. Check this out:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w224/danoid/DSCN2466.jpg
That is a Jeep Liberty CRD (2.9l diesel) pulling a nice travel trailer with a weight distributing hitch. Here are his weight stats:

<Quoted text>
Hitched
Front 2300#
Rear 3500#
Trailer 4560#

Unhitched
Front 2520#
Rear 2360#
Trailer 5500#

WOW! I've been tugging a 5500# trailer with 1000# tongue weight and the aero of a barn and getting 12-16 mpg! That's good.

</End Quote>

It's all in properly sizing your tractor for the trailer. That brick has brakes, and is almost properly balanced for the vehicle. The poster said that he wants to shift some gear around to change the tongue weight a bit, b/c the weight distributing hitch is unloading his front wheels too much at the moment. He thinks it's also b/c of the airlift springs in the back. But he can pull it just fine. Our cars are similar - properly sized trailers to the car are not a problem. The limiting factor is the lack of a real frame to bolt to, and the transmission. The engine is more than capable. Braking should always be helped by the trailer when possible anyway.

 

[jheen]

I quit reading after about page 4 but here are my thoughts. I've towed my 15' boat (about 1500lbs) behind both my 99 Jetta and 89 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (246K miles). I've driven a lot of farm equipment and trucks during harvest and done quite a bit of trailer pulling. I'm not as qualified as a trucker, but anyway... The Jetta pulls much better and stops much quicker than the Jeep, which has a higher tow rating. Both struggle on the hills, but no major problems with either one. The only problem with the Jetta is pulling out of the water, its way too hard on the clutch, no 4 low to make it nice and smooth. That is why I am stroking the Jeep to 4.6L.

What is truely funny though is to get to the boat ramp with the Jetta and watch all the people who really don't have much of a clue as to how to drive with a trailer, much less back in laughing at you (standing by their F350's). Then you put your boat in the water 5 times faster than anybody else (and by yourself) and watch them wipe their s*$t eating grins off their faces.